JP8 is the same JP8 when I left. The military has always had low sulpher highly refined diesel fuel. it is more refined then kerosene. You all need to know your fuel. JP8 was made to be run on everything From CH 53s to 998 hmmwvs. So yes they had ULSD Back in 1994-98! So lets not make this an argument any further! :arg: Please we have beat this Dead Horse enuff! I already agreed that it was OK to use 2 stroke oil. I use it some times myself when Marvel Mystery oil is not available. The information put out by deezel is not entirely correct. I use the 1:250 mix of 2 stroke myself. I get a little haze from my own powerstroke. and then he makes a claim with out any official PDF or means to back it up! and like I said before he called me out! so I am just trying to be friendly. Now this is my official last post on this thread! So don't temp me to return. PM me!

 

This is not an arguement BUT,


I dont believe for one minute that the US military was using ULSD between the years of 94-98. You never heard anything about ULSD until 2004-2005. Most refineries had to do fairly major upgrades to refine ULSD.

 

You obviously have no Idea of the set standards the military had on their fuel. They have alway been over 10 years ahead of the civilians, In Technology which Covers the entire scope! I.E. Chemicals, Metals, Plastics, Textiles, Software, Hardware, ETC, ETC, common Dr. Evil! Most refineries could not make ULSD in consumer capacity till it was made LAW! Thats why they (the refineries) were upset they thought they could not meet the demand for ULSD! The Military bought in Bulk of their Fuel & lubricants To their Standards! Their Bulk capacity were not excessive by any means. More like 1/8 of what the consumer uses during peace time. The main refineries expanded their equipment to meet demand I might add I worked in the Oil Servicing field it was called Matrix Services out of Tulsa OK! I have rubbed elbows with allot of people. Dr. Evil leave me alone! This is messing up the thread! Stop beating the dead horse! PM me next time you want a debate or E-mail me. END OF STORY!

 

Dear Mr. Rustin,

I have read with interest your various responses and opinions. Yoiu may have noticed that I have not interjected myself heretofore in spite of wanting to.

Addressing your last post. Do you actually expect us to believe that the military has #2 diesel standards for use in thier vehicles throughout the world that are different from that which we as consumers can purchase? The mere fact that the availability of such specialized fuel accross the globe is simply unattainable.

Secondly, your assertion that the military is 10 years ahead of civilians is ludicrous. Perhaps in space technology, but I assure that the blanket statement you made regarding accross the board scope of technology is not only inaccurate but borders on niavity.

I believe that you have embellished the knowledge that you may possess to such an extreme that the reader is left with the impression that your voracity is suspect.

Just my opinion, your's I garauntee will vary.

 

JP-8 was never anything more then Diesel Fuel with no additives that could be bought on the local market in any 3rd world country. It was never good to use it in any of your privately owned trucks because it caused extreme wear on fueling systems. If they did they either paid the price in repair fee's or added massive amounts of lubricant such as 2 stroke to it.

It was fine in military applications because of the frequent services dopne on them anyway. Down time and major repairs are expected on them and they most always lived up to that expectation.

I'm not sayin anything about who's right or wrong here because everybody has a right to they're own opinions. But Rustin if your gonna use the fact that you used to work in the refinery industry as a source of knowledge, then you should know the Dr. Evil and many others in this conversation still work in the refinery and oil industry.

 

About the only thing I might add WRT to this argument would be often times incomplete, as well. How'd he get to be a "moderator?"

I run a mix of 2-stroke and waste oil at around 60-to-1 in both my trucks and they don't smoke at all. Unless of course I'm well beyond normal levels into the throttle, and that's pretty much as expected.

 

First of all, I never mentioned the use of 2-stroke oil in the us army.
I never have served in the us military and do not plan to do so. But being good enough I was borrowed to the us military and been requested by them several times...

All data you got are from the german military. By the way, the german military has recognized the bad side effects of JP 8 to modern IP's a long time ago(during the 80's) and goes for the extra step to supply trucks with needed and demanded Diesel. Please explain, why the US military does switch to Diesel too, if they can supply it?

I will not provide any written data from the military, as not being allowed to do so.
(military act SG8).You simply take my word or you don't, simple as that.
Why would I use 2-stroke oil from one day to another? Living in world where 60 cetane diesel or 100 octane gas is available at your fuel station?

Just tell me which information is not correct or incomplete... Smoke is not always visible, Nadir.
Have you ever even heard about the "Bacharach numbers" or the so called opacity test?
Serious tuners do work with that, to ensure your truck is running clean and burning efficient. You will see your smoke very easily that you havn't seen before at all. Compare the numbers without driving your waste mixture and you will be amazed.

So the argument it does not smoke is simply wrong- it does, but it does in a way you don't(want to) recognize.

 

And to answer this, there are several reasons. The main ones are the fact that he has the patience to deal with being grilled by members who refuse to open their minds to new ideas and think that there might be another right way other then just their own.

Secondly because he is a wealth of technical info on diesels in general and not just on one kind of truck. Ask me about anything other then a 2nd Gen Dodge and I'll be the first to admit that I know nothing. He does.

He also brings a wealth of know how from across the water where they were serious about their diesel fuel in the days when we were doin nothin but dreamin of buildin our gas muscle cars. That exchange of info can be invaluable if you chose to listen and use it. Just like exchanging info between our big 3 brands of trucks.

Our purpose for being here is to exchange info and compare notes to make our sport better. As long as we can get along while we do this we all learn somethin new everyday.

 

o·pac·i·ty
   /oʊˈpćsɪti/ Show Spelled[oh-pas-i-tee] Show IPA
–noun, plural -ties.
1.
the state or quality of being opaque.
o·paque
   /oʊˈpeɪk/ Show Spelled [oh-peyk] Show IPA adjective, noun, verb, o·paqued, o·paqu·ing.
–adjective
1.
not transparent or translucent; impenetrable to light; not allowing light to pass through.

Uh, not exactly the accomplished scientist like some around here, but I think that means you can see it.

 

That was very eloquent! I understand what you write and I am well aware that you believe in what you say! Have you heard of the NATO Standards? That is the standard that Bill Clinton agreed to in the sighing of our military service to the UN (we were loosely using the standards since the late 70's). That was the Dayton agreement during the Bosnia, and Croatia battles. this was back in 1995, and we have been using the NATO Standards of ammunition and fuel ever since.
As far as your flagrant, yet clouded understanding of our military not being 10 years ahead is you attempt of using coequal verbiage to appear that your above the normal (How Very Democratic of you!) Did you vote Obama? BTW Cell phones were from the technology that the military developed back in the late 70s (Just one example!).

---AutoMerged DoublePost---

Thank you Uncle Bubba! As you state "It was never good to use it in any of your privately owned trucks because it caused extreme wear on fueling systems. If they did they either paid the price in repair fee's or added massive amounts of lubricant such as 2 stroke to it"
Sounds like ULSD right? this Stuff was off of a European diesel derivative.

To answer this Bubba "But Rustin if your gonna use the fact that you used to work in the refinery industry as a source of knowledge, then you should know the Dr. Evil and many others in this conversation still work in the refinery and oil industry."
I have no idea that any of these people worked in the refinery. Their bio does not read like it. My apologies for making any offences. I did not work in the oil refinery industry. I worked in the Steel industry that serviced the oil refineries. I learned allot about the oil industry from the executives that I worked for.

I will go on an keep saying that we have been making JP8 for a long time and it has been a type of ULSD, and to further my statement I have yet to see or have really accurately heard of any 2 stroke oil being used as an additive in the U.S. Marine Corps fleet of vehicles and I am not bound by a bogus Military act SG8 especially when it comes to military service and combat vehicles. My goodness! I can still call North Carolina and talk to the head shop chief of any maintenance changes! If that ever changes then the dems have us by the horns!

I will also add that I have an open mind. I do know a few things. my apologies for being apart of this thread being way far out of scope! Mean what you say and say what you mean! and don't call out a member for an argument
Thank you
Rustin
who is going home and not posting on this thread again! so please keep my name off your keyboard!