Argh, I leave the country for awhile, come back, and there's another handgun dick swingin' contest.....

Face it, ye drinkers of Kool-Aid....the 45 is not the be all end all, the 40 is most definitely not the answer, and the 9mm is plenty enough shittin-N-gettin for the vast majority who will carry a concealed weapon.

Don't believe me. Stand 15 yards out in my sight picture. I'll shoot you once center mass with a 9mm and once center mass with a 45. Tell me which one kills you worse, then I'll shoot a 357 SIG so we have some flames to start the cremation fire.

K, back in my hole now....later.

Oh, and whoever it was said they had a P220ST.

 

Awwww is little Danny having a bad day...You go adventuring into Canuckistan?

 

All life is a compromise, but guns are like racing you got to run what you brung.

Now when I got my XD40 I didn't like the recoil or the fact it took and little longer to get that second shot off, so I ordered a Don's guide, a 22 pound spring, recoil was cut in half and the gun fell back on target and I done good at the few IDPA shoots, I got 3rd one time shooting against guns made for just shooting paper.

But then I killed my biggest gator 13 foot 8 inches, 800 pounds in a 10 foot boat with a 22 target pistol,I was carrying for back up, we should have had a bigger boat and gun, but you just got to man up and get er done when the stuff hits the fan,so shot placement counts.

Oh and believe you me the gator wasn't sitting still he was coming fast to eat us at that time after slapping a foot dent in the front of the boat when the 357 bang stick didn't go off, that was the straw that broke the camels back for him and he was ready to take out the boat that was smaller than him, length and width.

 

The ones that carry and can use them but the question is.How many will use them when they need to?

 

Studies have shown in LEO shootings against armed threats had mere 17% hit ratio of hits vs. shots fired. So out of a 13 shot pistol you're more than likely to only hit your target twice, (a 1911 maybe once); and then your shots are more than likely to be low or no where near center of mass. Just food for thought.

 

I can't agree more. He wants full penetration; bullet in one side and out the other. What for? So you can kill the baby in the stroller 50 yards down range? I feel a good hollow-point bullet that expands on impact, tears the largest hole possible and expends ALL it's energy inside the target is much more desirable than one that zips clean through and keeps going. The guy hit with the hollow-point will bleed internally where the guy hit with the in-and-out bullet will will have two holes to bleed out of. Internal or external, bleeding is bleeding. And the bullet that does the most damage to the vital organs/nervous system will be the most effective against your target.

The .357 Magnum ranks 3rd??? The .357 Magnum with a full-speed 125gr JHP has consistently been rated the number one handgun caliber for one shot stops in Evan Marshall and Ed Sanow's (M&S) "One Shot Stop" (OSS) statistics. Higher than the .45 auto. Higher than the .44 Mag. Higher than the 40 S&W and 9mm. Higher than any of them.


M&S study actual police shooting reports and autopsy reports and cull from these reports all cases where the person shot received only a single gunshot wound, that wound being to the upper torso (center of mass, or "COM"). All other shootings are discarded and are not part of the analysis.

M&S then take all of these single-COM-hit cases and determine how many of them resulted in a "stop," which they define as a cessation of hostility within a certain time period. That number, represented as a percentage of all the single COM hit cases, is the official "one shot stop percentage" for that round. In cases where less than five shootings have occurred with a particular load, M&S have a statistical prediction model they use instead. (borrowed from greent.com)


While the "one shot stop chart" can be subjective (some calibers are just used to shoot people more than others, among other things), it does give at least some type of real world comparison of some of the more popular pistol chamberings and their recorded track records when used against 2-legged critters. How long was the .357 Magnum revolver carried by nearly every law enforcement agent in the country? A long damn time before everyone jumped on the "automatic" bandwagon.

This can be looked at two different ways. Yes, the .357 Magnum has had a large head start as far as collecting it's data and has had more time to rack-up points shooting bad guys (or good guys for that matter, though those aren't included in the chart), but that time period also allowed any short-comings to rear their head. Apparently, they haven't.

The .357 is such a great stopper, it is the only reason the .357 Sig even exists. The .357 Sig cartridge (a slightly lengthened .40S&W necked down to .355") was developed so a person carrying an auto-loading pistol could have the same stopping power as someone with a .357 Mag/.125 gr JHP bullet fired from a 4" revolver.

While I am a huge fan of the .357 Magnum revolver, I'll be the first to admit it sucks when trying to implement it in today's concealed carry role. A gun large and heavy enough to reap the benefits of the cartridge... not to mention control, is a bitch to hide on your person unless you are dressed for arctic warfare, but a diminutive 2" barreled, ultra-light gun great for carry will try to wrestle from your grasp and embed itself in your forehead every time you pull the trigger on a full-house load.

You just aren't going to hit anything with a gun you can't control. Especially when you are scared out of your wits and high on Adrenalin. If you aren't scared and shaking, then your situation doesn't justify the use of deadly force.

I don't carry yet. (still on the fence about being on the radar), but if I ever do, my .380 stoked with Gold Dots will likely ride shotgun at my side and the 6" barreled .357 revolver will stay in the night stand drawer where it does it's most good, protecting my home and family.

My personnel feeling is; a hit with a "diminutive cartridge" like a .380 is 100% more effective than 10 misses with a .45, and a damn sight better than throwing stones or harsh words. If you are going to carry a gun to save your hide in a life or death throw-down, then you had better be able to use the damn thing to it's potential. I know several guys who have gotten their CCW permit just so they can puff out their chest, strut around like a horny rooster and say "Look, I've got a gun". It's usually 9mm or larger. They don't practice with it. Many don't understand how the thing even works. Yet they are staking their life on it for when the SHTF. Carrying a gun in today's society is a huge responsibility. Perhaps bigger than any time in history. While I applaud a person who wants to exercise their RIGHT to carry a CCW and has the capacity to pass the testing requirements, I do have issues with some people's motivation to carry. Perhaps it's just because their reasons may differ from my own???

OK. Now that I've got that out, here is the condensed (and dated) version of the M&S "one shot stop chart" if anyone's interested, followed by a totally subjective way of viewing the chart:

Handgun Cartridge Power Chart - Condensed Version

CALIBERS -- The Myth of One Shot Stop Percentages

 

Have you been sitting around for months waiting for a chance to be the first to reply to my post?

...and no, I'm not allowed in Canada anymore.

back to regular programming...

A good shooter with a .32 is more dangerous than a novice with a .45, .40, .357ABC, or anything else for that matter.

..as far as use of deadly force not justified unless you're scared, shaking, freaked out, in panic mode.......whatever. There is training for that and those who carry a weapon should at least go through the basics of threat detection, confirmation, verification and CQC before they even think about packing heat, firearms educational courses notwithstanding.

 

Oh I forgot to add my XD40 has 48 kills on it most were one shot, but then some of the bigger gators take two or three like this one

 

WTF... You can just shoot gators?
Weird
They dont alow us to shoot anything.. Maybe squirrels

 

And get paid for it sometimes, you have to be working for a trapper and be licensed with the state.

Your other choice is get in the state lottery for gator hunts, if you win you get to buy a license and a tag to get to get one or two.

Now we can get as many as we have tags, most properties we go to have 40 or more tags allowed for that year.