Dude, seriously...did you look/read what was posted....

There is almost zero difference between a 45, 40 and 9mm when it comes to stopping a bad guy, it's more about the shooter and how accurate they are & where your bullets go than picking one of the 3 calibers mentioned above....

How accurate you shoot, how fast you re index and how accurate your follow up shots are are more important than what one of those 3 calibers you pick as long as you use a good premium self defense cartridge such as the Gold Dot...

Saying one is "better" than another is like saying a frog hair is smoother than a pubic hair...sure one is smoother..but does it really matter....

As far as the 44 mag.....ohhh it's a big powerful gun all right, designed to take elk, moose and other game...not humans...it will punch right through a human...leaving a hole to bleed out from...then kill poor little johnny 2 blocks away laying in his crib. There is a reason you do not see them used by LEO's or other personal defense/bodyguard kind of services...Google Elemer Keith and see what/how/why the 44 mag developed the way it did...

For the record the "man stopper" of all times is the 357magnum revolver shooting a 125gr JHP bullet...this pistol/caliber cartridge is way better than the 44 magnum...

Google Raven Concealment...see who all uses em...I've used em for a years & even had em design/produce a mag pouch for the Sig 229 in 357Sig as up till I asked for it nobody else had...but that was back when the wait was a week or 2...now it's like 18 weeks or something unless ya can get a quick ship for your handgun....

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You can only hope....as the 180gr JHP was what was designed for the 40....it's like shooting a 185gr JHP in a 45 ACP with a 5 inch barrel....sure it will work...but it's not what the 1911 is designed for and they do not work as well as a good 230gr JHP.....

 

I"ll take an 8% increase in expansion size any day.....and I shot a perfect score at my last qualification.

You don't think the 44 mag is used for PD by the general public? Then why does Midway offer no less than 40 different rounds designed for PD alone? These are offered by such names as Speer (GOLD DOT), Winchester, Remington, Federal, Hornady, Cor-Bon, Banes, and CCI.(Must be a market out there). If you can't except facts, we can't have a rational conversation.

 

Meh........mouse guns will only get you killed and are stupid to carry....a good knife such as the Spyderco Civilian is way better than a 25, 32 or 380 if ya want to go home at the end of the day. All a mouse gun will do is **** somebody off....

I watched a guy walk into my ER, check in and go sit down...turns out he was shot in the leg with a 380...he walked out 45 min later...cleaned and bandaged the GSW...saw a guy shot point blank in the head with a 25 cal, bullet did not even stick in the skull, it was pushed into the skin and when we went to put on a C Collar it fell out...

Minimum caliber you should carry is a 38special....that is if you are serious about actually wanting to defend yourself and your loved ones....otherwise even a good quality pepper spray is more effective than a mouse gun....

I've seen a few GSW's and worked with people who have seen more...the one thing in common is mouse guns/calibers no big deal...and it's very hard to tell the diff between a 9mm, 40 & 45 both in the field and in the hospital...no 2 people will react the same to being shot...

 

HE STOPPING POWER OF DIFFERENT HANDGUN CARTRIDGES
2/22/2003

Posted on Saturday, February 22, 2003 9:34:22 PM by 2nd_Amendment_Defender

General Julian Hatcher, a noted forensic pathologist, in the early 1900’s developed a good formula to determine the theoretical stopping power of a firearm cartridge. His formula has withstood the test of time and validation from other studies and data related to stopping power.

You want a handgun cartridge that has a Hatcher value of over 50 for the most effective stopping power. Values over 55 have diminishing returns in that you don’t gain any significant increase in stopping power for the extra recoil and control you must cope with. Handgun cartridges that don’t make a value of at least 50, should not considered for self-defense. If the rating of your handgun cartridge is under 30, it only has about a 30% chance of producing a one shot stop. Hatcher Ratings of 30 to 49 raise a one shot stop to approximately a 50% chance. Ratings of 50 or higher produce a one shot stop about 90% of the time.

Handgun Cartridge Type ..................... Hatcher Rating

.45 ACP full metal jacket 230 grain .......... 49.1

.45 ACP jacketed hollow point 230 grain ...... 60.7

.44 Magnum full metal jacket 240 grain ....... 92.3

*.44 Magnum lead wad cutter 240 grain ......... 136.8

.44 Special full metal jacket 240 grain ...... 51.6

*.44 Special lead wad cutter 240 grain ............. 76.5

.41 Magnum full metal jacket 230 grain ............. 54

*.41 Magnum lead wad cutter 230 grain .............. 80

10 millimeter full metal jacket 180 grain .......... 50.3

10 millimeter jacketed hollow point 180 grain ..62.1

.40 S&W full metal jacket flat nose 180 grain ...... 53.4

.40 S&W jacketed hollow point 180 grain ....... 59.4

.38 Special full metal jacket 158 grain ...... 26.7

*.38 Special lead wad cutter 158 grain ............. 39.7

**.357 Magnum full metal jacket 158 grain ..... 32.7

**.357 Magnum lead wad cutter 158 grain ............ 48.5

.357 SIG full metal jacket 147 grain ................ 36.6

.357 SIG jacketed hollow point 147 grain ..... 45.2

9 millimeter full metal jacket 147 grain ............ 32.3

9 millimeter jacketed hollow point 147 grain ... 39.9

.380 Auto jacketed hollow point 95 grain ..... 18.3

.32 Auto jacketed hollow point 71 grain ...... 11.1

.25 Auto jacketed hollow point 50 grain ...... 3.7

.22 Long Rifle jacketed hollow point 40 grain ... 4.2

* Jacketed hollow points will have the same rating as wad cutter bullets if the bullet hollow tip is greater than 1/2 of the caliber of the bullet.

* .357 Magnum ratings are taken from a firearm with a 3 inch barrel. Longer barrels will raise the rating of the round.

 

Good for you...and I'm also sure you know shooting on a one way range is worlds different than on a 2 ways range....and that 8% expansion difference is in ballistic gelatin and not humans...skin, bones, muscle, fluids in the human all act differently...

And you also know that shooting a perfect score on a qualification can and has worked against people in a court of law...if you scored 100% on the range...why not in a real life shooting....you missed the bad guy and shot aunt Judy...now you are being sued and will loose cuz your 100% on the range says you are perfect and have no room for error....

So, just cuz people sell something does not mean it's the best..it means people will buy it...like slick 50, or all the other products you see on TV infomercials...

Since your so knowledgeable...what LEO agencies issue the 44 mag, what is the duty round and how many shootings have they had...I'd like to know..am open to learning something...

Any Federal agencies or military using the 44 mag????

Please enlighten me...

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Snip......

Yep, that's the hatcher formula...and it has it's on set of problems/issues & is from the early 1900's.....

Not to mention that was posted in 2003, not much has changed since 03 now has it, it's only been 9 years, let alone the early 1900's......

Don't forget Marshall & Sanow's testing methods.....or the Strasbourg Tests..then again ya have the Fackler method......

Why not pull up data from the FBI, what they require in testing...but they go more in line with the Fackler method if I remember correctly.....

Thus ya have more and more data to sift through....

Or ya could do a little research about DocGKR, who he is, what research he has done & what is qualifications are...he is a easy one..I've posted links to his info above...as he is one of the foremost experts in ballistics and wounds/stopping power alive today & see what he has to say....

 

Who cares who uses a 44 mag.....the question is, is a 44 mag. round more powerful than a 9mm, and is one round of 44 maq.a better man stopper than one round of 9 mm......answer me those two questions. You really telling me there is ot any appreciable difference in the the gelatin cavities between a 9mm and the .40 cal. and the .45ACP

 

Also, take a gander at this dandy little publication....Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness” by Urey Patrick of the FBI FTU, lots of most excellent data in it....even if it was produced in 98....

FBI Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness - FirearmsTactical.com

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I have several times....you are not listening....

the 44 mag is designed as a hunting handgun caliber, of course it is more powerful than a 9mm, you don't go elk, moose hunting with a Browning Hipower...

And of course if you take the 240gr JHP 44 mag and a 9mm 124gr gold dot the 9mm is a better at stopping a human threat..the bullet is designed to expand and stop a human as is the cartridge....

While the 44 mag bullet is traveling way to fast to expand in a small narrow human..and will just punch a 44 cal hole in a person...

My 1st GSW I responded to was a guy who took a S&W 6" 29, held it against his chest and shot himself in the hear with the 240gr JHP....all he did was punched a hole in his heart...when the ambulance left he was alive....he finally died a day or so later in the ICU after surgeons had tried saving his life....Was not even very much blood....

 

And you also know that shooting a perfect score on a qualification can and has worked against people in a court of law...if you scored 100% on the range...why not in a real life shooting....you missed the bad guy and shot aunt Judy...now you are being sued and will loose cuz your 100% on the range says you are perfect and have no room for error....

That is why I'll take the 8% advantage.

 

Why is that may I ask, or is it cuz you think you will have a better chance of killing Aunt Judy when you miss the bad guy

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So torqctd, what is your firearms background....what is it you do for a living...how old are you & how long have you been shooting...how many GSW's have you seen, responded to & treated???

 

Have seen a victim killed by a pellet gun to the head and a man survive 10 rounds of 9mm and another from 6 point blank shots from a .357 mag. ,with every thing else thrown in you can imagine........I hope the 9mm will do the job......my wife carries one........I'll stick with my .40 and my .45. Take care.....we will have to agree to disagree. I do agree with you on the mouse guns. I'm am looking into the raven holsters. Thanks