Opinion On Motor Oils
#71
08-17-2010, 05:43 PM
Diesel Bomber
Changing your oil every 3-5k in a powerstroke has nothing to do with how dirty the oil is... The oil is broken down from being run thru the HEUI system. You could filter it down to .5 mic and it would still be broken down. The anti foam aditives are the life blood of a PSD...
Again, just guessing here...
Don't get me started on the air in fuel thing....
Just another quick question CSIPSD: Have you ever had a used oil analysis performed on your oil?
Last edited by NadirPoint; 08-17-2010 at 05:51 PM.
#72
08-17-2010, 05:51 PM
Diesel Bomber
Do these engines also suffer higher rates of bearing, valve guide, cam, etc, wear due to this issue? If not, why not? Foaming oil cannot be pumped well. Seems you'd be seeing drastic pressure drops and more catastrophic events if this was the primary issue.
Again, just guessing here...
Don't get me started on the air in fuel thing....
Just another quick question CSIPSD: Have you ever had a used oil analysis performed on your oil?
Again, just guessing here...
Don't get me started on the air in fuel thing....
Just another quick question CSIPSD: Have you ever had a used oil analysis performed on your oil?
Valve guides are always an issue, but thats with about every diesel motor...
And I have had the oils tested twice... they have all been fine, other then the aditive package. Again, the issue is not whats in the oil... but what is no longer in it.
#73
08-17-2010, 05:58 PM
Diesel Bomber
#74
08-17-2010, 05:59 PM
Diesel Bomber
#75
08-17-2010, 06:02 PM
Diesel Bomber
I'm more alluding to the "aditive package" part....
I just can't quite get past the idea that Navistar would design an engine that was so self-destructive.
Last edited by NadirPoint; 08-17-2010 at 06:14 PM.
#76
08-17-2010, 07:21 PM
Diesel Wrench
STOP... Please. You have no idea what you are talking about, and each time you spew this nonsense people think you know...You need to stop! Please you have got to stop with this nonsense. This conversation is closed. Period! It was an opinion and I feel I do know what I am talking about! Rustin)
The HPO Reservoir holds about 3qts... which is recycled every time an injector fires. (Please we covered this. Rustin)Then that oil drops back down to the pan, is run thru the oil cooler, filter and back to the HPOR... It is NOT a closed loop system, it is NOT a dead head system... PERIOD.Why don't you start a thread on what a closed loop system is. and then we can talk about how the 7.3l does dead head! Where do you think the pressure comes from? You have to have resistance to create pressure. hydraulics 101! Rustin
Please... Don't learn from him...<---
Changing your oil every 3-5k in a powerstroke has nothing to do with how dirty the oil is... The oil is broken down from being run thru the HEUI system.(It's a little of both actually. Rustin) You could filter it down to .5 mic and it would still be broken down. The anti foam aditives are the life blood of a PSD...
On a 5.9, or a 6.7, or a 6.4 or a 6.7 you have one side of an injector to worry about, the fuel side...
on a 7.3 and 6.0 you have two sides, fuel... and oil. The oil side will be damaged by air just the same as the fuel side will be...
Do you run an airdog on your truck or something like that to remove air... or would you like to...
Why? So you dont wear out your injection pump, injectors and nozzles?
The HPO Reservoir holds about 3qts... which is recycled every time an injector fires. (Please we covered this. Rustin)Then that oil drops back down to the pan, is run thru the oil cooler, filter and back to the HPOR... It is NOT a closed loop system, it is NOT a dead head system... PERIOD.Why don't you start a thread on what a closed loop system is. and then we can talk about how the 7.3l does dead head! Where do you think the pressure comes from? You have to have resistance to create pressure. hydraulics 101! Rustin
Please... Don't learn from him...<---
Changing your oil every 3-5k in a powerstroke has nothing to do with how dirty the oil is... The oil is broken down from being run thru the HEUI system.(It's a little of both actually. Rustin) You could filter it down to .5 mic and it would still be broken down. The anti foam aditives are the life blood of a PSD...
On a 5.9, or a 6.7, or a 6.4 or a 6.7 you have one side of an injector to worry about, the fuel side...
on a 7.3 and 6.0 you have two sides, fuel... and oil. The oil side will be damaged by air just the same as the fuel side will be...
Do you run an airdog on your truck or something like that to remove air... or would you like to...
Why? So you dont wear out your injection pump, injectors and nozzles?
---AutoMerged DoublePost---
OK, lemme take a stab here, no opinions, suggestions or taking sides one way or the other, just observation and analysis...
The main issue with diesel engine oil is soot. It is small (<1um~), yet abrasive. The filter on your engine is rated for what ~15um at best? Many are in the 20-30 range. Depends on what the manufacturer built it for including clearances everywhere the oil goes, in this case including the heui, right? So it's the oil's job to hold that soot in suspension. That is a big part of the CI specs - soot handling and dispersant properties. So the heui is basically being constantly bathed in dirty oil, starting the day you change it! --Whether or not you change those 3qt. Not changing it only puts you that much further behind in the game to stay ahead of wearing out your heui.
Then later on down the road when the soot agglomerates due to temp/pressure and loading, it starts getting trapped in the filter. When that starts happening, you are due for a change, because overall engine wear spikes at some point.
Anybody see where I'm going with this yet?
The main issue with diesel engine oil is soot. It is small (<1um~), yet abrasive. The filter on your engine is rated for what ~15um at best? Many are in the 20-30 range. Depends on what the manufacturer built it for including clearances everywhere the oil goes, in this case including the heui, right? So it's the oil's job to hold that soot in suspension. That is a big part of the CI specs - soot handling and dispersant properties. So the heui is basically being constantly bathed in dirty oil, starting the day you change it! --Whether or not you change those 3qt. Not changing it only puts you that much further behind in the game to stay ahead of wearing out your heui.
Then later on down the road when the soot agglomerates due to temp/pressure and loading, it starts getting trapped in the filter. When that starts happening, you are due for a change, because overall engine wear spikes at some point.
Anybody see where I'm going with this yet?
Last edited by Rustin; 08-17-2010 at 07:21 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
#77
08-17-2010, 07:55 PM
Diesel Bomber
Rustin... You are just plain dumb...
Remember that PDF I posted yesterday... Go back and read it. Really read it.
Take a 7.3 or 6.0 head and look at it. Study it.
Take a 7.3 or 6.0 injector home... Take it apart. Learn how it works...
The INJECTOR is the resistance to the pump... And then... when the poppet opens... The oil comes out of the spout and back into the pan... Not a closed loop system.
You have no idea how the HEUI injection system works. Period.
Remember that PDF I posted yesterday... Go back and read it. Really read it.
Take a 7.3 or 6.0 head and look at it. Study it.
Take a 7.3 or 6.0 injector home... Take it apart. Learn how it works...
The INJECTOR is the resistance to the pump... And then... when the poppet opens... The oil comes out of the spout and back into the pan... Not a closed loop system.
You have no idea how the HEUI injection system works. Period.
#78
08-17-2010, 11:37 PM
Diesel Wrench
Rustin... You are just plain dumb...(I have been called worse. Rustin)
Remember that PDF I posted yesterday... Go back and read it. Really read it.( I have you want me to repost my findings? Rustin)
Take a 7.3 or 6.0 head and look at it. Study it. (You think I haven't? Rustin)
Take a 7.3 or 6.0 injector home... Take it apart. Learn how it works...(My goodness man. Rustin)
The INJECTOR is the resistance to the pump... And then... when the poppet opens... The oil comes out of the spout and back into the pan... Not a closed loop system.( I agree I never said it was a closed loop system!
You have no idea how the HEUI injection system works. Period.( You have no Idea. Do you always have to be right. this is an opinion! Rustin)
Remember that PDF I posted yesterday... Go back and read it. Really read it.( I have you want me to repost my findings? Rustin)
Take a 7.3 or 6.0 head and look at it. Study it. (You think I haven't? Rustin)
Take a 7.3 or 6.0 injector home... Take it apart. Learn how it works...(My goodness man. Rustin)
The INJECTOR is the resistance to the pump... And then... when the poppet opens... The oil comes out of the spout and back into the pan... Not a closed loop system.( I agree I never said it was a closed loop system!
You have no idea how the HEUI injection system works. Period.( You have no Idea. Do you always have to be right. this is an opinion! Rustin)
On the second page of your PDF
High pressure Oil system component graphic
It shows the flow of oil. You are correct about the injectors being the resistance. The system has to be at pressure. then the solenoid hits the high pressure oil in the injector. a very small amount of oil leaves the injector. I am talking about that poppet that you referred to, and also the video that you put up earlier. even x8 it is not allot of oil (thats why I say it does not circulate properly. Ever see one clogged at the poppet end? I have! this is sometimes why injector codes rear their ugly heads. Some shops would look at the odometer, and if it is over 100k miles. They would say that the owner would need new injectors!). if it really popped out it would cause an extreme pressure loss and the rest of the injectors would not have the pressure it needs! So it is always dead head at At pressure deemed for the amount of work by the Computer. I.E Electronically controlled! High Pressure Oil System not just injectors! there are three sensors that sense oil pressure. Thats why if one goes down the system can still be controlled! Have you you had enough!
I am done this is way out of hand. Start another thread!
Just because your a Super Moderator, does not mean your Opinion is Fact! Facts are Facts you do have good advice. but this is opinions! like I said earlier my opinion works for me in this application!
Thank You! For the Love of Diesels. Stop! The madness! After all a cummins guy is getting to understand The system better! LOL!
---AutoMerged DoublePost---
Just so you know for every post. we get 9-10 people reading.
Last edited by Rustin; 08-17-2010 at 11:37 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
#79
08-17-2010, 11:47 PM
Diesel Bomber
OK one more time and then I am through with you! This is not going to help your argument.
On the second page of your PDF
High pressure Oil system component graphic
It shows the flow of oil. You are correct about the injectors being the resistance. The system has to be at pressure. then the solenoid hits the high pressure oil in the injector. a very small amount of oil leaves the injector. I am talking about that poppet that you referred to, and also the video that you put up earlier. even x8 it is not allot of oil (thats why I say it does not circulate properly. Ever see one clogged at the poppet end? I have! this is sometimes why injector codes rear their ugly heads. Some shops would look at the odometer, and if it is over 100k miles. They would say that the owner would need new injectors!). if it really popped out it would cause an extreme pressure loss and the rest of the injectors would not have the pressure it needs! So it is always dead head at At pressure deemed for the amount of work by the Computer. I.E Electronically controlled! High Pressure Oil System not just injectors! there are three sensors that sense oil pressure. Thats why if one goes down the system can still be controlled! Have you you had enough!I am done this is way out of hand. Start another thread!
Just because your a Super Moderator, does not mean your Opinion is Fact! Facts are Facts you do have good advice. but this is opinions! like I said earlier my opinion works for me in this application!
Thank You! For the Love of Diesels. Stop! The madness!
On the second page of your PDF
High pressure Oil system component graphic
It shows the flow of oil. You are correct about the injectors being the resistance. The system has to be at pressure. then the solenoid hits the high pressure oil in the injector. a very small amount of oil leaves the injector. I am talking about that poppet that you referred to, and also the video that you put up earlier. even x8 it is not allot of oil (thats why I say it does not circulate properly. Ever see one clogged at the poppet end? I have! this is sometimes why injector codes rear their ugly heads. Some shops would look at the odometer, and if it is over 100k miles. They would say that the owner would need new injectors!). if it really popped out it would cause an extreme pressure loss and the rest of the injectors would not have the pressure it needs! So it is always dead head at At pressure deemed for the amount of work by the Computer. I.E Electronically controlled! High Pressure Oil System not just injectors! there are three sensors that sense oil pressure. Thats why if one goes down the system can still be controlled! Have you you had enough!I am done this is way out of hand. Start another thread!
Just because your a Super Moderator, does not mean your Opinion is Fact! Facts are Facts you do have good advice. but this is opinions! like I said earlier my opinion works for me in this application!
Thank You! For the Love of Diesels. Stop! The madness!
Powerstroke injection system
Part in bold above... LOL... You kill me with your "knowledge".
Last edited by CSIPSD; 08-17-2010 at 11:53 PM.
#80
08-17-2010, 11:52 PM
Diesel Wrench
Some more reading so you MIGHT... MIGHT get a clue as to how the motor you say you have worked on runs...
PowerStroke
Part in bold above... LOL... You kill me with your "knowledge".
PowerStroke
Part in bold above... LOL... You kill me with your "knowledge".
