Nope, he's not. The only way to tell anything is with a bitwriter/scanner. All that can be seen is the date and time that an ECM was last flashed.

Cant pull what cant or isnt stored. Key hours with idle hours? Not sure what your meaning because you cant idle without the key on and that doesnt have anything to do with flashing an ECM. Sensor history is erased when you use tools like EFI Live. I can wipe out and entire ECM and start from scratch. When EFI Live hit the scene a lot of these rumors were dispelled. GM even put out a tech bulletin to all the dealers telling them the only way to see if an ECM had been modified was to pull the heads and look at the spray pattern on top of the pistons which they do when an engine fails.

 

First of all, CHenry, find my **** I deleted, I miss it

I am very intrested in this subject. I just ordered a Bully dog outlook moniter and will be picking up my triple dog tommorow.

I have extended warrenty on my truck and went into the dealership(up in Alberta, the dodge service guys are ******, well most of them, I have worked there) and if there is aftermarket items on a truck they will make you pay. I asked if it was okay to have a pyro on a truck and trans temp guage, because, you know that would be a lifesaver especially when hauling.

The dealership said that guages are fine. AS LONG as there is no other chips or modules,etc installed on the truck. I asked if something like the BUlly dog Outlook is acceptable, and that was a yes.

I am curious as to weather there is traces of programmers after the program has been changed back to stock. Some people say yes, and others say no.

Where is the proof?

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Okay, so will and Edge EZ module for example, after it is removed from the truck, is it possible to tell if it was there?

 

Keep in mind that the laws in Canada are different when it comes to privacy. "Boxes" that plug into the harnesses between the ECM cables dont do anything to the ECM. They intercept the data and manipulate it so the ECM doesnt even know its there. "Programmers" however will do a reflash of the ECM and completely change the "program" the it uses to control the vehicle. Due to privacy laws in the states the ECM cannot store or record data that is not essential to emergency functions or operating system start-up for longer than 12 hrs. When tools like EFI Live are used you can completely wipe out an ECM and write your own "program" which erases all history etc, as if starting with a blank ECM except for the firmware. On a side note, GM vehicles equipped with ONStar have a "black box" that records and stores data for emergency use. It cant see that an ECM has been changed but it cant tell the person viewing the diagnostics that something isnt right if the proper sensors arent by-passed or manipulated. Like I stated earlier, the EPA is trying to get this changed so that ANY mod is detected and logged...yes even speeding, then the local 5 0 will be called to investigate.

 

Now this is educational.

 

...just get some more, theres plenty of it out there...i hear.

 

You have made my point for me....
So you agree that :q:deleting:q: files doesn't exactly get rid of them. Maybe your computer is clean but the point is, there is always :q:traces:q: left on a computer from files being used and then deleted.

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that is what i would call a "footprint". I didn't say they could see the content of what was stored, just that there had been something stored.
And when you go in with blown head gaskets or some other problem and they see this footprint - see that it was reflashed lastnight at midnight yet the dealer didn't do it, i think they have a story to go on there. Oh and when they pull them heads to fix them gaskets, they can pretty easily see that spray pattern evidence in the cylindar cant they?

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So to answer the original question GRI, any time you do anything with a programmer on your truck, be prepaired to have an issue at the dealer. This does depend entirely on the dealer. Some will not make a big deal out of it but some will look hard and long for any "trace" of you tampering with the programming of the truck if they see any evidence that you are a DIYer gear head that might like to Bomb your truck. I know of two Ford dealers here in Oklahoma that could care less and in fact the tech at one of them doesn't know much at all about programmers and wouldn't recognize one if it was left plugged in and laying in the seat.
However one dealer saw my commander guages and looked for an hour or more to see if i had a programmer or chip installed. I had taken out the chip and they found nothing, but they were hell bent to try and find something.

 

:rolleyes: