wont start with out ether
#21
#23
#24
I have a 2003 dodge with the same problem. started off that i had to crank her for a while in cold starts. then every start. then she needed ether if shut down for more then ten seconds, then five seconds... and so on. the problem... you guessed it... injectors. replaced them and it starts up on the third crank at max every time.
Interesting,.... i started her 20 times a day on ether for two years before getting the new formula 1 injectors. gave me a sickening feeling in my gut every time i heard that rapid ticking sound of the #1 cylinder firing on it. OOOooooooOOOhhhhh. gives me the shivers just thinking about the condition of those piston rings.
Interesting,.... i started her 20 times a day on ether for two years before getting the new formula 1 injectors. gave me a sickening feeling in my gut every time i heard that rapid ticking sound of the #1 cylinder firing on it. OOOooooooOOOhhhhh. gives me the shivers just thinking about the condition of those piston rings.
#25
I have a 2003 cummins that is having to be started on ether too!!! I changed the heater grid and still have the same problem but the starting issues dont have anything to do with the injectors which all the machenics I have talked to have said the same thing!!!!! Also if every one is saying ether is so bad where does any one get there info on that because im a truck driver and all semis i have drove have an ether assist to start them and all the heavy equipment also do and every truck on my ranch have them also!!!!! So who ever is telling any one ether is bad they need to check there facts first!!!!
#26
I thought that the start-aid ether spray systems went away years ago. I wasn't aware any of the currently manufactured equipment used it.
As for why it is bad to use: I was just going off what we were taught in school (And there is a whole lot of 'evidence' in ruined parts all over the class room shelves). Now, I don't know exactly what a person has to do to cause such devastation to an expensive engine. Maybe when it happens they are using way too much ether. All my instructors emphatically said to not use it! I had one that did tell us if we did ever 'have' to use it to spray it into a rag very lightly and then just hold the rag near the intake so the engine would only be able to get enough to be able to start and that this should help keep from causing any damage.......
(If I were to admit it, I would have to tell you I do have a can at the house . . .
But it's actually for the potato gun . . .
And I would have to admit that it doesn't work for that either! )
---AutoMerged DoublePost---
Oh, I thought I should add:
As long as it's above 10F or so outside, a Cummins doesn't ever need the grid heater for starting. I haven't had it hooked up in my '06 for 2 years now and it starts just fine. You can test this if you want by simply just hitting the starter as fast as you can turn the key from the off position. This won't give the grid heater time to 'glow' hot. If she starts right up just like normal, then the grid heater wasn't needed.
As for everyone saying the injector(s) can be bad and cause a no start, it can be the actual cause. What happens on a common rail engine is if one or more injectors leak / bleed off / won't seal and bypass too much fuel then the poor injection pump can't make enough volume while the engine is cranking to build the necessary thousands of psi to start the engine. Before the situation gets too bad, usually if the engine is first started on another fuel (Like ether) then the higher rpm at idle can make enough fuel pressure to allow the engine to run. Once the engine is running the bad injector is 'carried' and the engine will run mostly ok.
I say 'can be the actual cause' because cerberus60 is right: It can be a lot of different parts to cause the same condition and symptom of no start with out additional fuel added at start up to get the engine to run. Many times it is the injectors and just as Juggernaut noticed, repairing / replacing the bad injector(s) cures the problem.
I am not saying all this to be mean or anything: I just wanted to try and save any of my fellow owners some money. If you ever run into a 'mechanic' that says it can't be the injectors then you need to be careful. Perhaps he doesn't have the experience he needs (YET!). But he will get it eventually. Where the problem comes in is most times these mechanics just start replacing parts. As a hard and fast rule, you should always know what the problem is and what is causing it before replacing parts. We have one of those here and it is fun to watch him replace all kinds of things as he 'searches' for the problem. Oh he usually eventually gets it...... You just don't want to be paying the bill on all those 'extras'
As for why it is bad to use: I was just going off what we were taught in school (And there is a whole lot of 'evidence' in ruined parts all over the class room shelves). Now, I don't know exactly what a person has to do to cause such devastation to an expensive engine. Maybe when it happens they are using way too much ether. All my instructors emphatically said to not use it! I had one that did tell us if we did ever 'have' to use it to spray it into a rag very lightly and then just hold the rag near the intake so the engine would only be able to get enough to be able to start and that this should help keep from causing any damage.......
(If I were to admit it, I would have to tell you I do have a can at the house . . .
But it's actually for the potato gun . . .
And I would have to admit that it doesn't work for that either! )
---AutoMerged DoublePost---
Oh, I thought I should add:
As long as it's above 10F or so outside, a Cummins doesn't ever need the grid heater for starting. I haven't had it hooked up in my '06 for 2 years now and it starts just fine. You can test this if you want by simply just hitting the starter as fast as you can turn the key from the off position. This won't give the grid heater time to 'glow' hot. If she starts right up just like normal, then the grid heater wasn't needed.
As for everyone saying the injector(s) can be bad and cause a no start, it can be the actual cause. What happens on a common rail engine is if one or more injectors leak / bleed off / won't seal and bypass too much fuel then the poor injection pump can't make enough volume while the engine is cranking to build the necessary thousands of psi to start the engine. Before the situation gets too bad, usually if the engine is first started on another fuel (Like ether) then the higher rpm at idle can make enough fuel pressure to allow the engine to run. Once the engine is running the bad injector is 'carried' and the engine will run mostly ok.
I say 'can be the actual cause' because cerberus60 is right: It can be a lot of different parts to cause the same condition and symptom of no start with out additional fuel added at start up to get the engine to run. Many times it is the injectors and just as Juggernaut noticed, repairing / replacing the bad injector(s) cures the problem.
I am not saying all this to be mean or anything: I just wanted to try and save any of my fellow owners some money. If you ever run into a 'mechanic' that says it can't be the injectors then you need to be careful. Perhaps he doesn't have the experience he needs (YET!). But he will get it eventually. Where the problem comes in is most times these mechanics just start replacing parts. As a hard and fast rule, you should always know what the problem is and what is causing it before replacing parts. We have one of those here and it is fun to watch him replace all kinds of things as he 'searches' for the problem. Oh he usually eventually gets it...... You just don't want to be paying the bill on all those 'extras'
Last edited by millco; 02-26-2010 at 02:50 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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06Dodge (02-26-2010)
#27
#28
I had the same issue with mine for many month's. tried everything but ended up it was losing fuel pressure through bad injectors. they just would not fire to start up, but the either was just enough to make them fire. New injectors and it has cured that issue. I used either very sparringly for many month's and it appears to have not hurt anything. I would encourage you to look at the fuel pressure output of your fuel pump. many right from the factory barely meet the needs of this fuel system, and a low fuel supply = poor lubrication.
A computer diagnostic test while trying to start my truck showed it was less than a third of what it needed for the injectors to fire. Wish you luck.....
If you are under warranty, get those injectors checked and don't let anyone jerk you around. They have a bad reputation.
A computer diagnostic test while trying to start my truck showed it was less than a third of what it needed for the injectors to fire. Wish you luck.....
If you are under warranty, get those injectors checked and don't let anyone jerk you around. They have a bad reputation.
#29
Roll over when cranking
My uncle worked for the roads department for years and ran graders most of those years.He always warned us when Dad got his first diesel Ram: if we ever had to use ether to have the motor cranking and spray it accross the inlet NOT into it. I have seen a snowmobile engine that was ruined by the use of too much ether; as in spark plugs pulled out and ether sprayed into each hole then a large shot right into the carburetor. The top rings were gone completely and the pistons were eroded down to the second ring and pistons and cylinder walls were scuffed badly!
#30
I have had diesels since 1997 when I bought an F350 4x4, 7.3 PSD. Then a 1999 F550 PSD, and a 2001 F350 and last, my Silverado Duramax. I never experienced any trouble with starting any of them and I'm wondering, now, why not. It seems from this thread that quite a few guys have had issues with Cummins injectors. I'm not slamming Cummins; it's a very good engine. Maybe if I sniff around more in the forums that are specific to Ford and GM I'll find the same issues there.
We used to use ether to start a Caterpillar loader (355) years ago. Didn't seem to hurt it.
We used to use ether to start a Caterpillar loader (355) years ago. Didn't seem to hurt it.