5.9 Liter CR Dodge Cummins 03-07 Discussion of 5.9 Liter Dodge Cummins Diesels with Common Rail Injection

wont start with out ether

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
  #11  
Old 01-26-2010, 05:51 AM
millco's Avatar
Diesel Enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Twin Falls, ID
Posts: 358
Received 23 Likes on 19 Posts
Default

Best thing to do would be to start with a compression test. This will tell if your engine is already 'hooked' on ether and will need to be over hauled or replaced. While the injectors are out have them tested. If they are bad you can replace them instead of putting the problem ones back in.
Ether is 'diesel engine overhaul in a can' for sure. It tears up a lot of engines every year! It is really best to never use it. Only somewhat safe way is to shoot a very small amount into a rag and then hold that rag close to the intake while it is cranked. Be sure not to let it 'grab' that rag out of your hand!!
 
  #12  
Old 01-26-2010, 07:12 AM
NadirPoint's Avatar
Diesel Bomber
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: CO
Posts: 2,257
Received 186 Likes on 159 Posts
Default

I've been using ether to start my 1st Gen for two years when it goes below freezing in the garage because it has no grid heaters. Saves on cranking, nothing wrong with it. The danger with using ether in a diesel like the Cummins is casued by the grid heaters igniting it in the intake. That would be a bad thing. I don't know what y'all mean by "hooked on ether" but it sounds to me like somebody is hooked on something else.

OBTW, commonrail injectors are electronically fired, not "popped."
 
  #13  
Old 01-26-2010, 07:45 PM
dangerous1965's Avatar
Diesel Bomber
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Escondido CA
Posts: 1,713
Received 111 Likes on 105 Posts
Default

Hooked on ether Usually happens to worn out diesels to much blow by the rings equals low compression the high expansion of the ether makes the motor rotate real fast giving the pistons just enough to run once running there is enough heat to keep it going! Just cranking without a heat source on a worn engine makes it almost impossible to start!
The ether is a quick fix that once started makes it hard to stop but the damage is permanent! Time for a rebuild. On the newer engines it's usually the injectors.
 
  #14  
Old 01-26-2010, 09:33 PM
ArizonaRedneck's Avatar
BOMBARDIER
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: arizona
Posts: 4,366
Received 240 Likes on 192 Posts
Default

ether can be bad on your diesel engine especially in the wrong hands you dont pull the trigger and hold it like your trying to kill a swarm of yellow jackets and yes Nadirpoint they can and will get hooked on ether whether you think so or not ive seen them in the middle of the summer not start with out a snort of ether and yes i just replaced a 3408 cat engine in a scraper this last summer because of to much use of the ether can and any thing with a grid heater or glowplugs can be dangerous if ether is in the picture dont get me wrong i have used it and will continue to use it but its a have to thing and small quantities like 1sec spray off 5secs usually just a tad will do ya
 
  #15  
Old 01-26-2010, 10:18 PM
Uncle Bubba's Avatar
BOMBARDIER
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Illinois?
Posts: 12,854
Received 1,112 Likes on 700 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by NadirPoint
I've been using ether to start my 1st Gen for two years when it goes below freezing in the garage because it has no grid heaters. Saves on cranking, nothing wrong with it. The danger with using ether in a diesel like the Cummins is casued by the grid heaters igniting it in the intake. That would be a bad thing. I don't know what y'all mean by "hooked on ether" but it sounds to me like somebody is hooked on something else.

OBTW, commonrail injectors are electronically fired, not "popped."
Ok ya caught me, I meant to say HPOP and old habit's took over and I forgot the "H".
 
  #16  
Old 01-27-2010, 09:43 AM
cerberus60's Avatar
Diesel Wrench
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Minco OK
Posts: 715
Likes: 0
Received 84 Likes on 76 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by NadirPoint
I don't know what y'all mean by "hooked on ether" but it sounds to me like somebody is hooked on something else.
Pretty much, must some GOOOOOD stuff to.

For the OP, you are going to need to check some things to find the problem. Specifically and injector return flow test will tell you if the injectors are bypassing too much fuel. Knowing what your rail pressure is on cranking is going to help also. It could be FCA, CP-3, rail pressure sensor, rail relief valve, or lift pump problems.

Gauges, gauges, gauges are your FRIEND. See if you can get some readings and go from there.
 
  #17  
Old 01-27-2010, 10:35 PM
millco's Avatar
Diesel Enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Twin Falls, ID
Posts: 358
Received 23 Likes on 19 Posts
Default

cerber is right! Please get as much info as you can and if you need more help, let us know what you find. We will give it a shot!

Most of what has been stated about a diesel getting 'hooked' on ether has been correct. Besides the glow plug / grid heater problem (You can bypass this possibility by simply unhooking power to the relay and keeping them from coming on!) the main problem with ether is that it is too combustible. It will ignite before TDC and raise combustion pressures too high. This will also cause any diesel left over in the cylinder to also ignite before TDC, raising combustion pressure even more! This is real hard on every part in there! Mostly what will happen is the connecting rod will bend (If it doesn't break!). The reason this is bad is it will lower the engines compression ratio. Since a diesel depends on compression for ignition, lower the compression pressure too much and it won't have enough heat to ignite the fuel (Hence, why it won't start!). The 'big boys' in pulling have lowered their compression to be able to turn higher RPMs and those engines won't start without ether.
Trust me, I wouldn't tell you something like this if it weren't true. A guy is just better off never using the stuff. It is much better to find the problem and fix it so no harm will come to your engine. In the long run it will be a lot cheaper too! (Considering that $5 can of ether can easily wind up costing you the price of a new engine . . . )

HTH,
 

Last edited by millco; 01-27-2010 at 10:37 PM.
The following users liked this post:
blkjack (01-28-2010)
  #18  
Old 01-28-2010, 07:22 AM
NadirPoint's Avatar
Diesel Bomber
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: CO
Posts: 2,257
Received 186 Likes on 159 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by millco
....the glow plug / grid heater problem (You can bypass this possibility by simply unhooking power to the relay and keeping them from coming on!)
Not sure what trading one starting aid for another buys you there. Bottom line is it should be used as a troubleshooting measure or in the absence of intake heaters - not normal operation in above freezing temperatures.
 
  #19  
Old 01-30-2010, 07:26 AM
millco's Avatar
Diesel Enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Twin Falls, ID
Posts: 358
Received 23 Likes on 19 Posts
Default

I don't know why I passed that trouble shooting advice along.... It would be a way a guy could keep ether from exploding in the intake side of the valves when the heaters are energized.... But then I have been saying don't put any in there in the first place! Almost made it sound like I was saying it would be ok to 'administer' some . . . .

This is a really tough topic! Used to be some engines had a cable / switch you operated that was hooked up to a can of ether to use as a start aide. I have to admit, I'm no expert here, I just know that all our instructors ADAMANTLY and REPEATEDLY told us to always stay away from using ether in any engine. I can go back to the class room and take a lot of pics of damaged and mutilated parts if need be. I have to wonder if there isn't a safe or somewhat safe way to use it if you had to. We had one professor who did tell us that if we sprayed it into a rag and then held the rag near the intake while cranking, then we should be ok. I do believe that most problems with ether is because a guy used too much and sprayed it too far into the engine (Getting liquid right near the valves or actually into the cylinder!). Everyone knows why no liquids go inside a cylinder don't you? If not, please ask and we will have that conversation too!

I just maintain it is just much better to never use the stuff. 'Course I also know if it's -50F outside, that an engine isn't going to start either! I have been in temps near that and all we could do was start fires in pans under each engine we wanted to get running. It took quite a while, but after warming them this way, they did start.
 
  #20  
Old 02-03-2010, 09:10 PM
375.0ford's Avatar
Newbie
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default no start

Just had a problem with a 2000, no start after sitting, the top of the fuel inlet(sending unit) on the fuel tank was rotted had a small hole, it let the fuel drain back to the tank, and wouldn't start, when forced to run (ether) it would pull enough fuel up and stay running (no fuel leak suction side) hope this helps.
 

Last edited by 375.0ford; 02-03-2010 at 09:14 PM.


Quick Reply: wont start with out ether



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:17 PM.