12 Valve 2nd Gen Dodge Cummins 94-98 Discussion of 12 Valve 5.9 Liter Dodge Cummins Diesels with P7100 Injection Pumps

hx35/40 hybrid and no difference!

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  #21  
Old 07-14-2009, 05:40 PM
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Something that slipped my attention earlier, If your only getting 27 psi out of a hx35 with your fueling, You have problems that are not turbo related. Like maybe your wastegate is not all the way closed or you have a big damn leak somewhere.


I agree with you if you were flowing more air through the turbo you boost should have gone up, unless you changed something else besides the turbo. did you check for boost leaks? make sure your air filter is clean? does your 35/40 have a wastegate?
well i don't fell any difference,and like i said,if there was more air actually getting there,would it not run cooler,this thing gets hot!and i don't understand how it can be flowing more air at a less psi.my motor is not using any more is it?seems to me if you compress more air in the same amount of given space the psi should go up.and the housung is the same size as the 35's will this make any difference?

So your saying I wasted my money on my 62mm turbo because I'm only pulling 40 psi out of it, which I could do with my hx35, and are therefore not making anymore power?
 
  #22  
Old 07-15-2009, 01:34 AM
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"Originally Posted by AF1CUMMINS
not tryin to hijack the thread but I'll ask you this 94Cummins....I thought to high of a PSI was what blew head gaskets? What is this 1:1 ratio you're talkin about and how can it blow a head gasket?"

Originally Posted by 94 12valve
the 1 to 1 ratio he is talking about is the drive pressure to boost ratio. 1 psi of drive press to 1 psi of boost is what you want.
thats exactly what i was talking about. the hybrid is not a 1:1 drive pressure ratio, thats why my head gaskets kept getting taken out before studs and o-rings. when your at 45psi on the hybrid its realy about 60-65psi drive pressure

---AutoMerged DoublePost---

Originally Posted by kazairl
Something that slipped my attention earlier, If your only getting 27 psi out of a hx35 with your fueling, You have problems that are not turbo related. Like maybe your wastegate is not all the way closed or you have a big damn leak somewhere.







So your saying I wasted my money on my 62mm turbo because I'm only pulling 40 psi out of it, which I could do with my hx35, and are therefore not making anymore power?
your dumb if you are willing to make 40+psi on a hx35 overspead, to hot and uneffective that will actually drop your performance. on a 62 you flow more air, may not be morePSi but its more cubic feet per minute
 

Last edited by 94cummins12v; 07-15-2009 at 01:34 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #23  
Old 07-15-2009, 04:48 AM
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he should be able to hit 40psi no problem with that turbo just watch out about the drive pressures went threw about 6 head gaskets with that turbo becasue it aint a 1:1 drive ratio
thats exactly what i was talking about. the hybrid is not a 1:1 drive pressure ratio, thats why my head gaskets kept getting taken out before studs and o-rings. when your at 45psi on the hybrid its realy about 60-65psi drive pressure
Hmm....
Once again you fill posts with nothing more than your ridiculous claims.

I start with this one first..Your Head gasket issue....
I would bet any amount of money that the head gaskets issue you claim was turbo related was more of a improper torque and re-torque sequence instead of your drive pressure claims.I would also say that any owner who KNOWS he is going to push the pressure limits of the gasket and does not o-ring and stud is asking,no deserves the fruits of his stupidity.One would think with all the internet resources available today someone would know better and have learned after the first mistake.

Second One....HX35/40 drive pressure issues....
So now your telling us you are going to blame the failures on a ridiculous claim of excessive drive pressures due to the HX hybrid.I will ask you this,did you ever run a drive pressure gauge to actually see what it was doing?.Or how about this one,do you even know how to make and install a drive pressure gauge?.IF you answered yes to either of my questions then you would already know that your comments do not hold any water.Throw in the fact I remember you saying you had a 16cm housing on it and I will again call BS on your comments.I have ran a drive pressure gauge on my hybrid,way back when I had it along time ago, and can tell you even with a 12cm gated housing you will never see drive pressures like you saying.

With my 12cm gated housing and the gate set to open at 40psi I had 45psi in the exhaust side for a 1.125 ratio and that will never take out a gasket.When I ran the 16cm housing at 40psi on the intake side I had exactly 40psi on the exhaust side for a 1-1 ratio and again no headgaskets will fail at that unless you over boost the charger and run it out of its map or run the egts into orbit.

You do really amaze me with some of the crap you come up with.

Now on to the original question.....

First off,for running a HX35/40hybrid the mods you did to the AFC and then throw in a 0plate is way to much for the little charger to handle.Your asking a relatively small charger with a tight exhaust housing to move the air and fuel that a bigger charger may have issues with.As the others have said,check for boost leaks first,then I would ensure you have the waste-gate operational and not wired open.If you still having issues then I would recommend having someone check your timing in case it may have slipped.If you have still not found out what the issue is by then its time to detune the fuel and start from scratch and make your changes in small steps.All the fueling in the world does you absolutely no good if your not tuned to make use of it and when your not tuned all you get is heat and no power.

You young guns need to realize that there is more to a 12v than reading on the internet and doing your own "internet Mods".Many of those home brewed tweaks do little for power and usually end up with you spending money twice when you can do some more research and do the job correctly the first time.Below I will link some reading for you self tuners that was written along time ago on the TDR by Joe Donnelly,maybe you will better understand after you look at it some.......Andy


TDR Website
 

Last edited by Hammer; 07-17-2009 at 04:12 AM.
  #24  
Old 07-15-2009, 05:30 AM
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Ok hammer I get what you're saying and you're correct for the most part there is one thing that's incorrect. Our little 12v 5.9s just like they're big brothers in otr tractors have gear driven accessory drive systems wich drive the water pump oil pump fuel pump camshaft etc etc. So if a system is gear driven in wich all gears are either keyed to the shaft or utilize a taper lock system then how the hell can they slip belts slip chains break or wear out. And despite popular belief chains do not stretch like belts the link pins decrease in diameter over time. But that's besides the point telling someone that they're gear driven fuel pump wich is the heart of the engine and is what you would time the engine off of is bullshit and quite frankly almost and I mean almost impossible if in fact the timing could or did slip the tapered input shaft of his pump would be destroyed the pump gear would fall off and tear the accessory drive up so I ask you this how can timing slip
 
  #25  
Old 07-15-2009, 10:15 AM
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i know for a fact that the timing can slip,the gear is on a tapered shaft with no key.the only thing that keeps it in place is pressure from the bolt in the end of it.one little spec of dirt,or graes,or if the bolt loosens slightly,it can slip,theres nothing keeping it from doing that.

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how can i know for sure if my waste gate is fully closed?when i do the pressure test i can hear air leaking somewhere inside sounds internal?i don't know if it's in the exaust,or in the motor.i just know i can hear it somewhere.and i put the #100 plate i had back in it,would you slide it all the way back just to see what it does?

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by the way,my waste-gate actuator is really rusty lookin,is there anyway it could be stuck partway open?how can i tell?is there a cutaway view of one somewhere,i'd like to see exactly how the waste gate works.

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i tried to move the waste gate actuator rod by hand(it is still hooked up)and it wouldn't move at all,should it not at least moved a little
 

Last edited by BAD ASS RAM; 07-15-2009 at 10:15 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #26  
Old 07-15-2009, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Hammer
Hmm....
Once again you fill posts with nothing more than your ridiculous claims.

I start with this one first..Your Head gasket issue....
I would bet any amount of money that the hectics issue you claim was turbo related was more of a improper torque and re-torque sequence instead of your drive pressure claims.I would also say that any owner who KNOWS he is going to push the pressure limits of the gasket and does not o-ring and stud is asking,no deserves the fruits of his stupidity.One would think with all the internet resources available today someone would know better and have learned after the first mistake.

Second One....HX35/40 drive pressure issues....
So now your telling us you are going to blame the failures on a ridiculous claim of excessive drive pressures due to the HX hybrid.I will ask you this,did you ever run a drive pressure gauge to actually see what it was doing?.Or how about this one,do you even know how to make and install a drive pressure gauge?.IF you answered yes to either of my questions then you would already know that your comments do not hold any water.Throw in the fact I remember you saying you had a 16cm housing on it and I will again call BS on your comments.I have ran a drive pressure gauge on my hybrid,way back when I had it along time ago, and can tell you even with a 12cm gated housing you will never see drive pressures like you saying.

With my 12cm gated housing and the gate set to open at 40psi I had 45psi in the exhaust side for a 1.125 ratio and that will never take out a gasket.When I ran the 16cm housing at 40psi on the intake side I had exactly 40psi on the exhaust side for a 1-1 ratio and again no headgaskets will fail at that unless you over boost the charger and run it out of its map or run the egts into orbit.

You do really amaze me with some of the crap you come up with.

Now on to the original question.....

First off,for running a HX35/40hybrid the mods you did to the AFC and then throw in a 0plate is way to much for the little charger to handle.Your asking a relatively small charger with a tight exhaust housing to move the air and fuel that a bigger charger may have issues with.As the others have said,check for boost leaks first,then I would ensure you have the waste-gate operational and not wired open.If you still having issues then I would recommend having someone check your timing in case it may have slipped.If you have still not found out what the issue is by then its time to detune the fuel and start from scratch and make your changes in small steps.All the fueling in the world does you absolutely no good if your not tuned to make use of it and when your not tuned all you get is heat and no power.

You young guns need to realize that there is more to a 12v than reading on the internet and doing your own "internet Mods".Many of those home brewed tweaks do little for power and usually end up with you spending money twice when you can do some more research and do the job correctly the first time.Below I will link some reading for you self tuners that was written along time ago on the TDR by Joe Donnelly,maybe you will better understand after you look at it some.......Andy


TDR Website
ive seen headgaskets go at 30psi, i also know a guy on this very site that was running 60psi of boost with no studs and no o-rings for years( i know because im currently running his turbo), also "do you even know how to make and install a drive pressure gauge", the question is this do you?
 
  #27  
Old 07-15-2009, 12:09 PM
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If torqued corectly the bolt will not loosen and if grease or oil is sl bad then why do you neversieze a shaft on a motor of anysort that utilizes a taperlock system I work with those quite regularly and have never had a taper lock pulley or gear
 
  #28  
Old 07-15-2009, 12:43 PM
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i work with them also,i work at a machinery manufacturing shop.usually a taper lock will be keyed also,but we use ringfedders wich are also tapered,and on occasion we have had a shaft slip in the motor due to bolts backing off for whatever reason,all i know is it can happen,and it does as many people on this website can tell you.

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enough of that,can anybody help wit hthe questions i had posted about my waste gate?
 

Last edited by BAD ASS RAM; 07-15-2009 at 12:43 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #29  
Old 07-15-2009, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by davo79
Ok hammer I get what you're saying and you're correct for the most part there is one thing that's incorrect. Our little 12v 5.9s just like they're big brothers in otr tractors have gear driven accessory drive systems wich drive the water pump oil pump fuel pump camshaft etc etc. So if a system is gear driven in wich all gears are either keyed to the shaft or utilize a taper lock system then how the hell can they slip belts slip chains break or wear out. And despite popular belief chains do not stretch like belts the link pins decrease in diameter over time. But that's besides the point telling someone that they're gear driven fuel pump wich is the heart of the engine and is what you would time the engine off of is bullshit and quite frankly almost and I mean almost impossible if in fact the timing could or did slip the tapered input shaft of his pump would be destroyed the pump gear would fall off and tear the accessory drive up so I ask you this how can timing slip
You are so wrong you don't even know it. There is a gear that drives the IP but not exactly. The injection pump shaft is tapered with a key way machined in it, the injection pump gear is tapered and has no key way. What keeps the timing from slipping? The amount of torque on the injection pump shaft nut. Usually 125 ft. lbs. And, yes they can slip very easily, especially if you just re-timed it or didn't do it correctly. And, it does not destroy the pump shaft. Basically usually when it slips, you can't keep the engine running, or it is running so horribly that you know it isn't right.

---AutoMerged DoublePost---

Originally Posted by BAD *** 1997 RAM 2500
how can i know for sure if my waste gate is fully closed?when i do the pressure test i can hear air leaking somewhere inside sounds internal?i don't know if it's in the exaust,or in the motor.i just know i can hear it somewhere.and i put the #100 plate i had back in it,would you slide it all the way back just to see what it does?

---AutoMerged DoublePost---

by the way,my waste-gate actuator is really rusty lookin,is there anyway it could be stuck partway open?how can i tell?is there a cutaway view of one somewhere,i'd like to see exactly how the waste gate works.

---AutoMerged DoublePost---

i tried to move the waste gate actuator rod by hand(it is still hooked up)and it wouldn't move at all,should it not at least moved a little
Can you hear the air leak coming through the intake or the exhaust housing of the turbo? If so you probabally have a leaking valve. You also could have a loose or missing bolt in the intake of the head, or the one of three gaskets could be bad.

You can use a regulater to get the pressure down to around 10lbs and apply air to the actuator and see how much air pressure it takes to open it. If you think your wastegate is stuck open or not shutting, mark it where it is normally and then remove the rod and see if it will shut more.

And trying to move one by hand is very hard. If you could move it by hand chances are the actuator is bad.

---AutoMerged DoublePost---

Originally Posted by davo79
If torqued corectly the bolt will not loosen and if grease or oil is sl bad then why do you neversieze a shaft on a motor of anysort that utilizes a taperlock system I work with those quite regularly and have never had a taper lock pulley or gear
If you put anything on the IP shaft such as anti-sieze or grease or whatever, I guarantee it will slip. You don't want lube here unless you like retiming the pump. In fact, when I re-time a pump, I use 80 grit sand paper and scuff the pump shaft and the gear bore to ensure I only have to do it once. It sucks towing a truck back to do it again.
 

Last edited by Dieselwrencher; 07-15-2009 at 03:07 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #30  
Old 07-15-2009, 03:10 PM
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if i disconnect the actuator,should i be able to move the arm for the wastegate easily?
 



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