The Video dont play for me

This is from the man himself DD

I hope everyone agrees, that is what is going on here.

Thanks for all of the input and discussion.

Ok
 

Question for those here that know more then I do on the topic but do you think that maybe a good harness and some better retaining walls would have helped? Maybe a reiforced seat with straps? Dunno just a thought rather then cutting your truck up for a roll cage. I believe that truck would never have flipped if it had stayed in the track.

lol

Remember Red Green's external "as you drive" car wash? I picture that...plus remember who'll be building these---can you imagine "Sleddy's External Crash Bars, Inc".....oh dear god.

Quote from Gary on CompD: "6 point, 4 inside the cab with a halo, and two bars out of the back of the cab welded to the frame rail. I believe the tubing was 1.50"


It was done by S&S Racecars who if I remember right is in Kentucky.

I aim to please. :D

Yes, I do believe the current NHRA guidelines are working. Yes, I do believe my trucks to be reasonably safe for dragracing. Yes, I do believe there is no problem.

The majority of "hobby racers" agree, as does the NHRA.

no.
same wreck.. he would still walk away. chassis would have bent a little more but not by much...all the extra braceing form the back halve would keep it fairly straight.

there are no front kickers on the truck ie form front bar to front of the frame horn. only ones going backwards

the only major chassis part that was bent was aft of the rear axle, and the pass side door.... even here there is very little force on the cabine.. only ~12" of the windshiel is spider webbed most likely when it ladded on the pole...and shatered the door window as well
Attachment 58366


now i am not saying he doesnt need one at all. a simple hoop cross bar and rear out riggers would have worked just as well.... remember the bigged consern in DR is rollovers and sliding. not dircet sharp impacts like road cours, circule track, score, ralley and what not.

roll bars are designed to augment the exsiting crash protection zones

That's understood, better walls are needed.

http://www.swordsandarmor.com/images...tion_small.JPG

SWORD OPTIONAL !

Here is a quote from Comp D of me and my basic oppinion of the safety increases for these trucks.

These are minimums, in my mind.

basic 6 point

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padding/cage foam would be a great solution for this....

All of this is like a broken record. The simple fact is that things are happening today that were not happening 5 years ago. The amount of truck racing has increased by leaps and bounds in the past 2 years. Put that together with specifications that were designed for a 3600 lb car not a >6000 lb truck and what do you have?
Pat can bring up anything but an answer and try to bring in things that are not part of the discussion. Were not talking about 1/2 ton trucks, motorcycles and the rest of his BS. Were trying to discuss vehicles that are over 6000 lbs racing at speeds over 100 mph. What the out come will be who knows but if Pat has his way we all will have no input into it, because he wants to derail all the threads until they are closed or he gets kick off the site then he can claim censorship somewhere else on the Internet. At that point the decisions will be made for us with no input.



Last time I looked there are how many 9 second Full size Duramax trucks?
Answer: 2 both tuned by TTS and both running an array of TTS products
We were the first Full size production Duramax in the 12's,11's, 10's, and 9's
So what if anything has this got to do with a safety discussion..... NOT A DAMN THING!

wow, once again, the DMAX boys tear each other apart, lets try to keep this about the cages/roll bars.

Three: Fastest one is a PPE tuned truck with no nitrous.

Fastest street trucks are not TTS anything. Western or Eastern hemisphere.

i've been reading and thinking about this..... i understand where ya'll are saying a 6pt cage on a 3500lb car is safer than a 6pt cage (made from the same material) on a 7500lb truck. let's not reinvent the wheel here let's make it more efficient..... why not increase the STRENGTH rating on the roll bars.

why not rally for a stronger tubing to be used in these trucks? to me it would be simpler and more efficient. we built a roll cage one time in a car using 1 3/4 inch x .144 tubing. all mild steel and it passed NHRA tech many times. didn't cost us more than 100bux to make and worked..... why not look into 1.5x the wall thickness of a larget tube with slightly thicket wall thickness?

if a bridge won't hold XXXXX ammount of weight with 6 contact points why add 4 more made of the same material? why not built it to support the weight from the begining with 6 contact points and larger material?

these are my thoughts as i don't race my truck regularly, it's not "super fast", but have built a few cars that have been VERY fast and lasted a long time and never once was safety an issue.

a back halfed 1/2 ton one and a one full body 2500hd truck... but "steve cole" is not on their titles.......

iirc didnt dirtymax break 9s



like i said the rules do not need to change...

Larger diameter or thicker tubing is being discussed I would imagine...as well as the various diameters of chrome moly tubing available.

Let's see this FULL size truck your all talking about because the only other one in the 9's is tube chassis with a scaled down body call Dirtymax. Any racer knows that would not be a full size truck. I do not need my name on the title to know what we've done nor do our customers. I see your still trying to twist the facts to meet what you want.

Thicker tubing for truck with a cage but at what point do you need to add just a simple roll bar? For the >6000 lb trucks I would think somewhere sooner than a <3600 lb car.

The rules do need to change...the question at hand is, how much ?
You could have small, reasonable changes, like larger, thicker tubing which would be a good thing IMHO...or large, unreasonable changes like caged 12 second trucks...but one way or another, changes are on the horizon.

Exactly...you can also use a Maraging C250 that has the tensile strength of Rockwell C but has a moderate yield point.

Why would they change anything if there isn't proof the existing standard is inadequate?

Perhaps you could convince them there is something seriously wrong. Even a small group, if they shout loud enough, and say it's for the "common good" will be listened to.

Heck, you can't have a cigarette on the beach anymore.

What about the fact that the cage rules are written for cars typically half the weight of our trucks?

How about regulations on the stuff that prevent ever having to need a safety cage?

Don't confuse the issue with facts Preston.... :tttt:

BTW nice to see more hot rods here. :U:

....... I Agree This is a Very Serious Subject

lollollollollol nice avatar Chad

Lmmafo (just like LMAFO except with a phrase enhancing M added)


says the man with this avatar....

Ok back to topic, yes it is very serious and can change the sport completely what will come of this.

What the heck is LMMAFO???? I bekieve this one is new to me lol

Can you show me where the NHRA handbook says designs are for "cars only"? Or, "we ignored anything but lightweight sportscars"? It might be true, but if so, it's news to me.

Most of the basics in the handbook come from the 1960's. Cars were neither light, nor safe. Neither were the pickup trucks. Yes, they did have them back then. Not all the cars had seat belts even.

Relatively recently, in lieu of the fact racing was getting safer, they eased up on the minimum requirements, and so far have had good luck.

The #1 safety equipment problem is not the rulebook, it's whether folk follow it.

If we actually follow the existing rulebook, and run the trucks setup in a responsible fashion, we will continue to have good luck. No bias/radial tire mixes. Tube tires get tubes (stiffens the sidewall). Engines tuned correctly for drag racing.

Low CG's will do more to prevent rollover injuries than all the tube steel in the world. No rollovers = no rollover injuries. The Crankshaft Height rule should be enforced.

I like the FAA method. Make sure it's safe before it takes off, rather than skip preflight and give each passenger a parachute instead.

I said the same thing back on page 2 before this got crazy...

I think thicker walled tubing would be the simple answer -- just go stronger if you are worried about the weight, not up the speeds/times that things are required...

that truck isn't too damaged for smacking two walls and flying thru the air landing and then being floored and catching an edge and making a barrel roll in the air (not rolling on the ground which is why the "roll cage" didn't get tested) and landed up against the pole..

I will stand by my original comment -- this is a knee jerk reaction to something that isn't that big a deal. Maybe its because I've seen worse as an insurance adjuster, but I bet his helmet wouldn't have gotten banged up so bad had it not had a cage to hit.. I think the BIGGER ISSUE should be do the tracks have adequate equipment to contain these trucks/vehicles that will be racing on their surfaces...

NHRA rules dictate the bar must be padded anywhere your helmet can hit. I go a bit further.

It goes without saying that if your 5-pt is comfortable, you need to tighten it. Ditto with helmet.

There really is some theory behind all this and Matt (big thumper) has made some charts to show it. While it's not the total answer is does show the amount of energy for the current 2008 cage and roll bar rules. These rules are for the same for all cars that compete in NHRA and IHRA. Doesn't matter the manufacture so they have cover all the air bags and crumple zones that cars are built for today. It needs to be noted that current production trucks do not comply with current car standards. The standards for trucks are much lower than cars. He has taken the weight and speed and made a easy to read and follow chart that shows the results. As anyone can see as the weight and speed change so does the point at which a cage and roll bar is needed. Look for post 260 in the following link to see his results.

In light of recent events. - Page 13 - Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together

A rollbar/cage is only effective if you roll the vehicle to begin with. Something that is not currently a problem. If you do not roll the vehicle, it actually puts the driver at a greater risk. Hence, rollbars should ONLY be used where there is a real threat of rollover. Hitting a guardrail and having your helmet bang the bar can cause serious injury even when padded.


What he didn't show was the yield point of a correctly constructed NHRA rollbar, or the yield point of the roof of a late model pickup.

Gary's truck did roll. The light pole is what stopped it from more than one revolution.

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It doesn't Pat. What I am saying is the rules in that book were designed around passenger vehicles that typically weigh about half that our trucks do (I own an 06' 3500 Megacab).

And they have not altered the rulebook since the 60's? I thought there have been a few updates since, but I might be wrong. :humm:

The recent addition of racing higher weight diesel trucks is going to change the dynamics somehow. The insurance companies that cover the tracks are going to look at the trends and someone in risk management is going to figure it out without the help of any sanctioning body. A parallel example would be U-Haul and the Ford Explorer. You cannot rent a U-Haul trailer if you are going to tow it behind an Explorer. U-Hauls insurance prohibits it.

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I'll try not to make that mistake. :U:

Thanks for the welcome.

Everyone claims the insurance companies, NHRA, and SFI are throwing a fit so we need to panic right now.

Exactly what (who) is making everyone think this is happening?

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PS - If that track that had two guard rails and a light pole destroyed files an insurance claim to cover the damages, do you think the insurance company is going to demand rollbars?

1 Guy cant drive and now they want to tighten the regulations ? Theres risk in everything you do , Anal Retentive people is whats wrong with just about everything today

Must have Turn ups or Turn Downs and Drive Shaft Loops at the Sled now , How many Stock Diesel Trucks are going to have Drive Shaft loops on them , People just say screw it ... Hell I pulled my First sled when i was 13 in a field of 30 Trucks and i took 3rd

Yup. Perhaps if it was the racers, or the safety organizations, or even the insurance companies, I might understand their point of view.

No, these are just spectators who think they know what's best for everyone.

Heck, I can remember when you could rent a horse, or buy a 3-wheeled dirtbike, or ride in the bed of a pickup.

Sad to see what I thought were our peers caving into this nonsense.

If there looking for safety in any "Sport" then they need to realize that to some point participants and spectators do realize theres a certain amount of risk factor Leaving the Computer chair ,

I went to the trails Last Year to Watch Shockwave ,


Give me a break on Spectators at risk,, this thing could of killed everyone at the event ... Even the $8 a Slice Pizza guy ...well he sort or deserves it

I wonder what it weighs ?

Do you know Gary ? His experience level ? ANYTHING about the man to make that statement ?
I seem to recall more than one professional racer going through or over guardrails. Can they not drive either ?
Think before you type...BS like that just feeds the fire some people would like to keep burning.

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You only wish you knew what's really going on. LOL
You don't know and quite honestly...I doubt you'll be told because of the way you spin things.