Well
 

If you reread the quote that you quoted you will see that I'm not on one side or the other. I take more risk driving to work everyday then when I run down the track! If you are going to jump someone for trying to make a sport safer you should consider as to why they feel that way and come to understand it . On the other hand if you want to be constructive help the people that are for this to realize why they should possibly reconsider!

I'm not "jumping" you.

You are posting what the only true argument for their position: Safety is a good thing.

I'm not convinced this will improve safety, I'm convinced it will do exactly the opposite. For us, we will just stop racing, but others won't. They will take it to the streets. And heaven help them if a truck that was safe before the rulechange kills someone on the street from a head injury involving a rollbar.

I wanna know how we are all classified as Pat's cheerleaders for sticking up? I have never met Pat, E-mailed Pat, PM'd Pat, or spoke to pat on the phone. But I will tell you a voice agreeing with me is one I will agree with. Some of his statments are a little crazy, but he is doing what he can to make sure the cause he seeks is noticed IMHO. Tighter saftey rules for the little guys will ruin this sport. I do agree a saftey change could benefit, but going full speed ahead and cuting up trucks isnt the way. Helmets, neck braces, proper saftey belts, correct and servicable tires, and several others should be under scrutiny first. I race mine when I can and dont make a dime from it. I earn everything that goes in and out of my truck. I wear a helmet and a seatbelt every pass. Have some of these folks even taken a ride in a 11 or 12 second truck?

I say we have a good debate, but let's keep it civil.

Well once again Pat has not learned how to tell the truth......... nothing new :booo:

Let's set things straight and maybe we should boycott the websites and suppliers that cannot tell the truth........ MCRAT RACING, Duramaxdiesels.com, and McratRacing.com

The need for some refinements to the rules are going to come, so do you want to be a part of it or not? In the past NHRA and IHRA have not looked at the trucks as there were not enough of them to worry about. There is and were no 11 second daily driver gas trucks. Now 11 second trucks are much more common place and they just happen to be diesels that are heavy. So guess what boys and girls they are being looked at.

What we have start was an open discussion about what rules could be changed to make it safer for all. McRat has taken it as an attack on his truck but no one cares. What we are looking for is input and ideas of how we as a group can do something before it gets done for us. It's my opinion that anything over 5000 lbs @ 13.0000 and slower needs nothing done. 12.99999 and quicker should have some sort of rollover protection and 11.50000 and quicker should have a cage. How much and how to do it is what the discussion is all about. If you would like to follow Pat and bury your head in the sand that's fine, but if you would like to discuss things and contribute ideas that would be great.

Who me? :D

I'm as civil as I'm treated.

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No daily driver 11 second gasoline pickups?

This "dumb thing" is just an act, right? You've never heard of a Ford Lightning or any other fast pickups? You've never seen a Syclone(?), a Typhoon, a SRT-10 Ram, a Big Block R/C, etc, etc, etc, etc?

Why didn't you ever put a rollbar in your truck back when you were racing?

Guys were enjoying this topic forsure and want to learn more !!

But we will ask this , We dont know what hatchets have been swinging between people who have posted here And we really dont care , But we will Handle Whats said here ,

Even Not knowing the history ........Thats all you can ask from us

This is Disrespectful and im sure its not how you would like to be treated

We have 3 Simple rules we ask that you atleaset take a second to look at them before you post

https://www.dieselbombers.com/specif...les-101-a.html

Everyones welcome here , Were not TOO GOOD for anyone , but we ask that discussions do not turn to personal attacks

Thanks

Last time I looked a Syclone and Typhoon were not real pickup trucks and the SS 454 truck ran 13's and slower. Yes there were a few, and I mean very few exceptions to the norm but how much did any of these exceptions to the norm weigh? The issue is and was weight to speed related. So how many 3/4 ton and heavier pickups run 11's prior to the diesels coming of age? No more of you supposed trucks give us names and dates! The answer is simple they could all be counted on one hand and they had safety equipment in them. This is the underlying issue SPEED VS WEIGHT! Look at all the SFI specifications and you will find weight requirements and it's there for a reason. SFI is where NHRA, IHRA and many other sanctioning body go to get there specifications for those who do not know.

Pat my race truck has a roll cage not a roll bar and that's what I'll race. The daily driver gets me too and from work and tows my 20,000 lb race car trailer.

The boycott statements were started by McRat and you allowed it to stand.................

The fact that there have been fast pickups at dragstrips all over the US for 30+ years doesn't rely on your permission for their existence. They were around I started racing in the1970's, so I imagine they predate that.

Let's see your list of 13/12 second diesel pickup dragstrip accidents that a rollbar would have come into play. I've been to the track hundreds of times haven't seen one yet.

Nobody in the NHRA is actively working to screw with us. It's you and your ilk. Matter of fact, they lifted restrictions on 4x4's last year. Exactly the opposite of your position.

Steve, I raced you in 2005. Your pickup did not have a rollbar. According to you, that is unsafe. Why didn't you have one? Why the sudden change of heart? Why didn't you bring this up back when your tuning was considered fast, and several of your customers were running 12's and 11's? Now that nobody runs your stuff, you want everyone to get rollbars NOW?

One of those, "If I can't compete, nobody can" type of things I suppose.

How many NASCAR guys are wearing HANS devices now that Dale Sr died.....yet in the past were hard set against them?

A roll cage saved my life--granted the car was much faster than any diesel pickup truck will ever be, but the fact remains when the line is crossed from "street truck performance" to "race truck performance with a license plate" something needs to be done.

How about instead of all the speculation and mudslinging everyone sit back, take a deep breath, and start working on a solution?

The External Roll Cage wasnt reasonable huh ?

lol

A solution for?

There is not a notable problem.

If there were a serious safety problem, I wouldn't be racing. I have no death wish, nor do I want to kill my wife, or any spectators.

There is a risk. There always has been. There always will be. You can put funny car cages in these trucks and still die, and still kill spectators.

There is no evidence that late model stock pickups running in the 12 second range are a danger to their drivers or the spectators. I can't say that for cars though. I've seen so many 12 second cars go into the wall that I lost count.

In the end though it's gonna come down to the fact that we are becoming a more regulated society like it or not. This means that we as even Diesel truck owners are gonna have to put our brand differences aside and work together to protect our rights. You as the Racing society are gonna have to put all the bad blood aside and find some common ground to hold before you get over run also. The bad guys are comin boys, if we don't learn to stand together and solve our own problems somebody else will sure enough solve them for us.

Well Pat you once again have missed the point to this discussion and instead of learning you try and ruin it for everyone else. This isn't about you or your truck or my truck, it's about the safety of running heavy weight vehicles at high speed. The fact that you know no one at NHRA or IHRA might just be why you do not know what is being looked at. SFI has already been involved and it was started close to a year ago. It's still being looked at today. With the latest wreck being used for some of the discussions. Now what little you've been to the track doesn't count for diddly do, and as far as 4x4 racing it's not event the point of this discussion so get over it already. What people are discussing is going to happen with or without you as it doesn't matter what you or I want. It's what they want and crying about it and saying it isn't going to happen only makes you feel better.

All the crap you keep posting everywhere about people street racing and people quitting is just more of your BS and not needed. Why am I involved in this really has no bearing on anything but just for your knowledge it's because racing matters to me and I've been at it much longer than you have event dreamed of doing it, and I would like to see it continue. How many race series do you sponsor anyways? Why don't you, for a change try to contribute something useful to the discussion instead of just calling people names when they do not agree with you.

:pca1: If your truck is titled and insured for on road purposes you don't have a single purpose race truck :lol: Therefore making, like everyone else said, a caged street truck let alone 8pt :poak: dangerous... In the NHRA you don't have to have 8pt untill u hit 9.99 thats around 150 plus mph! I understand at that point you need alil more protection and when your approching those times and speeds, you take the "street" outa the truck. But wow, whether its here say or not 5pt 6pt or 8pt, at those speeds they "might" be required, you'll never see me race in dhra events again... I'll be watchin instead, alot less trucks too i'm sure.... :mum:

I'm pretty positive nobody wants to mandate any type of bar in anything slower than a 12.0 truck anyway...no matter what some people may have you believe.
The bar rule is already in place for 11.49 and quicker....a move up to 11.99 wouldn't be that much of a jump. With the weight of some of these trucks...that might not be a bad thing....but that's just my personal opinion.

The "quick diesel" type classes are a 12.0 index so it really wouldn't change much of what's happening right now. The street trucks that run that class wouldn't be affected at all. Would a little tougher rules affect that many 11.5-11.99 trucks ? Many already have bars in them, most guys on the bubble plan to run below 11.49 and know they need a bar anyway.

Would "more" cage be a bad idea for the Pro classes ? I don't think so myself but other disagree I'm sure....especially those Pro Street drivers that can only compete because it was slowed to a 10.50 index.

Why do you say you will not race DHRA? They have nothing to do with it. That's just more BS McRat is trying to spread around. DHRA are not the people behind it. It's much larger than they are. Think along the lines of insurance company's. No one is asking for a ban on anything just a safety review that will in the end come out with new requirements. Those then will get in rules in the heavy weight racing at higher speeds. You can sit back and cover your head in the sand or maybe spend some time thinking about what may and may not help the sport. It's input from people that may come up with a good way to keep everyone happy, but sitting back and bitching about it isn't going to help anyone.

Did you think TTS meant a Hard Hat, or extra hairspray?

On your board, he called for rollbars. Here, he seemed to forgot how to spell it out.

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History lesson:

It was the EXISTING ProStreet Drivers and TTS, TS Performance, et al, who demanded the 10.50 index. I said it was dumb at time. But unlike them, I run per the rulebook, and don't make my own rules up in lanes. Basically Stuckey was hosing them so they wanted to catch up.

Now the exact same crowd who first wanted a 10.50 index, now want it unlimited, now scream it's unsafe, now want less rules, now want more rules for 12 second guys, etc, etc.

I never voted for the 10.50. Your "pals" are the ones who did. Safety? Rigggghhhttt...

Doesn't make you wonder what's up?

Guys were enjoying this topic forsure and want to learn more !!

But we will ask this , We dont know what hatchets have been swinging between people who have posted here And we really dont care , But we will Handle Whats said here ,

Even Not knowing the history ........Thats all you can ask from us

This is Disrespectful and im sure its not how you would like to be treated

We have 3 Simple rules we ask that you atleaset take a second to look at them before you post

https://www.dieselbombers.com/specifi...les-101-a.html

Everyones welcome here , Were not TOO GOOD for anyone , but we ask that discussions do not turn to personal attacks

Thanks

Wow, love how this is spilling over all boards.

We are proud to let this go on here without posts being edited or post being deleted. as long as it remains civil

I wasn't sayin it was all DHRA "great organization by the way"... But they will be enforcing it, so that why you wouldn't see me race :lol: since i'm over 91. Yes its all hearsay at the moment but i was looking at the worst case senerio i guess? Hopefully something does come outa this that is positive! :pca1:

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And I second the "external rollcage!" :poak: :ha: :rock:

Prototype
 

This is what DM is going to do to his truck. When he gets to the track it folds down.

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...MI_378499a.jpg

Everyone is entitled to their respective opinions, Pat.
I have mine, you have yours....I'll try to word my future posts in a manner that leaves nothing to the imagination, or specifically, your imagination.

If, and I stress "IF" the NHRA or IHRA licensed tracks adopt some new rules for heavy trucks whether they be gas, diesel, hydrogen or water powered...ANY sanctioning body that runs events at those tracks will have to abide by those rules. This includes DHRA, NADM, NRHDA or whoever else may come along.

I really believe the reason for starting the various discussions on various boards was to attempt to hash out some reasonable rules within our own little corner of the racing world.
Like someone said earlier...if we don't do it ourselves...they WILL do it for us.

We cannot forget the motorcycle racers either. There are now diesel-powered motorcycles we need to "protect" also:


In appropriate picture.

show me concreate evidence that one of these thing happen down at breakaway.

1. there was cabin penetration pased the roll cage
2 roll cage was bent or showed gross signs of being too week to support said weight at said speed,
3. weight/mass equal saftey always has.... gross dramatic direction changes is what cause bodily damage.


another note
i posted this on a couple drag forums... comment like "too much engine for truck setup" imporper chassis setup, too much truck for driver... and these guys are running 9s and 10s..

most would packedup and never gone onthe track at all...


steve when are you going to do something? god you sound like some RED kool-aid that i have seen on my computor screen........ or are you pissed about not being numbero ono?????? on tuners

Yeah
 

They have cages for them in development already. Here is a spy photo.

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q...lerollcage.jpg

Prototype :D

http://www.dieselbookmarks.com/sigs/q.png

The reason the cage was not distorted was because Gary had his truck overbuilt for the current speeds that he was running. The reason this whole thing is being discussed is because he went through the wall from what I understand. I'm not saying anything ill, but I'm waiting for a 4x4 to break a steering component and head through the wall, then we'll truly see how the weight issue plays out.

So by this note, I assume you folk are meeting with the Lightning Owners, the SRT Ram owners, and PerformanceTrucks.net to get the gas trucks on your side.

Perhaps a group petition to the NHRA to get them to crack down on all of us?

Somehow I don't think that would fly.

To the first part of your post....Gary's truck wasn't going fast enough to test the cage he had in it. And be clear, it was a full cage, not just a roll bar. The issue at hand is rolling one at "speed"...not rolling one at relatively low speeds like what happened there.
To your #3...I agree...UNTILL you put all that mass on it's roof at 120+ mph.
Sorry gentlemen....OEM's don't test these things at those speeds. Picture rolling a CC F250 up on it's side at 120 or so....them smashing into the wall roof first. The picture in my head isn't pretty.
My truck weighs 7600 lbs with me in it. Some might think a simple 6pt bar will perform the same in my truck as it will in a 3600 pound car like the spec is written for. I, for one, don't think it will.

As far as your direct post to Steve. What in the world does what he tunes or doesn't have to do with ANYTHING being discussed here ?

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And here I thought for sure I worded that in a way you couldn't twist it around into something it's not. I stand corrected.
Your theory there is so laughable I won't even dignify the accusation with a response.


On edit: I sometimes wonder if Mr. McSwain truly believes the drivel he spews. I think he might actually start these BS sessions just to get a rise out of people....troll like if you will.
Is it possible that every sanctioning body that deals with diesels specifically singles out McRat in some huge conspiracy theory to stop his so called Pro Street DMax from competing...or is it more plausible that he imagines this stuff due to lack of some form of medication ?
I have no idea....but it makes for some interesting reading....I guess.

!
 

:pca1:

:hss:

the closes action the cage saw was gary gettign out of the truck after the wreck... all he has is a basic 6 or 8 point cage...

i agrees were the rules are currently at and do not need to be increase or made more stringent.

that roll/wreck never even hit the cage period....and does nto prove/warrent anything to make the rules tighter....

its funny the video the showed gary had lost control by the 330 was removed...... :argh: nto to mention he floored it after he hit the left rail....

back on topic... too many people are drinking the koolaid that we need put bars/cages in slower truck than the current standard.

the thing that need to be done is follow the current rules already set forth....... by the NHRA...

the only thing i could see puting in the truck is a remote kill switch ie like monster trucks do with a manual reset. that would have kept gary from accelerating again for what ever reason

So, you don't think it would have turned out a lot worse if he didn't have a cage?

What Gary's accident did, and rightfully so is start some discussion on current rules.
Some people take a 'wait and see' stance while others choose to be more proactive....but everyone should be able to discuss what's on their minds.

The same accident with a much better view is up on NHRDA's website and has been for days now...nobody on the planet can say what was going on inside the cab except Gary...and he doesn't remember. His helment too quite a shot during the accident.
My thoughts are that he was either dazed and didn't know he hit the throttle...or he braced himself for impact and in the heat of the moment didn't know he stabbed the throttle.....either way he didn't floor it right after he hit the left rail....he hit it just before he impacted the right rail. Either way....he was going through that raill...no doubt about it. I have to think that rolling once or twice and then clipping a light pole tested the cage at least a little bit. LOL



As for the current standard....if I remember close it's a 6 pt bar at 11.49 for about a 3600 pound car. Like I said before...I find it hard to believe a 6 pt bar will do the same job in a 7500 pound truck as it will in a 3600 pound car.....that's just my opinion though...I didn't call the NHRA hot-line or rally anyone behind me to raise the current spec.

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Here's the video we're talking about in case not everyone has seen it.

Vid


As I said before...Gary hit the throttle right when he hit the right wall.....NOT when he hit the left wall...at least in the sense of accelerating the truck. He did bump it when he hit the left wall...but 2 tires were in the air so I don't think that really counts.

I meant the solution to "Those Who Want Cages in Everything vs. Those Who Don't"....there can be common ground, we just need to find it. Dimplomatic debate. :)

Nobody does, dude. Perhaps those who "get it" need to find a way to better explain their side to those who "don't get it." :)


There is a lawyer out there someplace who will take your case to sue God for the tornado, too....Many people, many businesses, are afraid of lawyers. Perhaps DHRA is one of them. :)

Lots more cars are racing in the 12 second range than are trucks. Sooner or later it will happen, but that goes for anything.

We're all in this together. :)

**DISCLAIMER** I don't have a diesel drag truck, and don't particularly care for the DHRA, and also think the NHRA cage rules are good ones, but wish everyone a safe journey down the 1320, regardless of how you choose to fly it.

So which cage was he running?