And placing it right under stress is the key point...not to mention what kind of pistols shoot these little bullets and what range they are good at...contact distances are about all they are good at & even then they are marginal....especially if somebody is hyped up on meth or another mind altering drug....

A experienced fire fighter can put out a room & contents fire with a simple 2.5 gal water can, but more often than not when the fire department responds to a room & contents fire they rush in with a 1 3/4 line....

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I'd believe it...look at the type of organ the liver is...and what the 22 brings to the party....the 22 is more "deadly" than the 25 or the 380.....and has killed way more people..

Ummmm only if it's a graze and just skims the surface of the flesh...if the bullet actually goes into the body...ya will need a tad more than a band aid....

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Don't go away, need to download/save and read this...

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If you cross the T the perp drops like a sack of taters....if you miss the T and hit the head/brain anything could happen or nothing at all, it depends entirely on what the projectile hit, damage done & lots of other factors...no guarantees of any kind...unless ya get a head shot with a 50cal.....

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not working, can't download/open it....

 

The download worked for me... I just clicked it...

Anyone else having problems?

 

This is what I got, will not download it at all.....

FBI-Analysis-on-PA-Police-Shootout.pdf.part could not be saved, because the source file could not be read.

Try again later, or contact the server administrator.

 

huh, did you try just opening it? PM me an e-mail and I'll send it on. Interesting read.

 

worked here good read there is ALOT of lead in that guy

 

Finally got it to open at work....

 

Yeah, that's the problem with a shot outside of the instant kill zone... It make the CNS shut down in a BAD way... The person feels no pain and the adrenaline starts flowing fast!

All teh more reason you first shot must count, it will determine the fight. 1 Shot in a kill zone and its over... anything out side and you just gave the other guy an advantage. He wont stop or feel pain till you put him DOWN.

 

Thoughts?

 

I'm not a fan of the 40 & while they say this is not a failure of the 180gr round, only going 1 inch or so into a human sure makes one sit back and think....especially as the Gold Dot is a superb preforming bullet...why/what kept the 40 from penetrating any deeper...

The report goes on to say that the 55 & 75gr TAP ammo did not preform as expected and did not meet the FBI's standards of performance...

The TAP round is what other 5.56 anti personnel/sniper rounds are judged by in accuracy and terminal performance when it comes to self defense ammo in the 5.56...how/why did this round fail and how/why did it not meet the FBI's standards...why is this round the round of choice for anti badguy teams around the country ...how does it stack up to the standard military 5.56 round & the new and improved Mk 262 & MK318 ammo.....along with the Black Hills comparable ammo.....

What did they expect as far as stopping a bad guy hell bent on going out in a blaze of gunfire....mentally prepared to deal with getting shot...

Lots of questions left un answered....that report to me created more questions than it answered....

I've always read that a lighter bullet (155gr or around there) in the 40 did better....but again I'm not a fan of the 40 and think it's a round created to "fix" a problem the FBI was having...instead of addressing any precieved weak areas in the 10mm (the 40 is a 10mm in diapers and designed for the FBI when it was found that agents had a hard time controlling the recoil of the 10mm or shooting them accurately) or the 9mm or 45ACP.

The 40 has a bigger bullet than the 9mm, less magazine capacity, a smaller bullet than the 45 but a extra round or two...it's not ballistically that much better better than the 45acp or the 9mm.

Personally I prefer a 115-124 gr +P or +P+ JHP in the 9mm and a 230gr +P or +P+ in the 45ACP....and military ball in the 5.56 but that's just me...

The pistol is a self defense weapon used to fight your way to your rifle/shotgun....it's not designed or expected to be a 40megawat blaster killing anything and everything...

The 5.56 round again ain't the same man killer the 308, 30/06 or the 50 cal is...it's good and it's accurate, but ya have to accept what it is and use it within it's limitations...and accept it will not end the fight every time with a single round....

Need to dig out the picture of the guy high on angel dust...he was shot 99 times (or around that) with 9mm's, blind, dead and dead, yet still trying to kill cops....and it took a few 12ga slugs to bring him down (he finally bled out)

Ever hear of the box of truth....lots of good to great info there... The Box O' Truth - Ammo Penetration Testing

Bottom line is any caliber/cartridge/bullet can and will fail.....it's up to the shooter to determine what caliber they are comfortable with, that the weapon they are shooting it in functions 100% of the time and is accurate with this ammo....and to know and accept the limitations of the weapon/caliber they are shooting...and to train and expect it to fail at the worst possible time.....

 

dam thats some good points there

but being that most shootings happen at less than 10 feet (for personal defense not cops)

I think any big round (9mm 40 45 38 357 ect) will do the job