The Ford vs. Chevy Horsepower War Rages On
#32
11-07-2010, 04:43 PM
Diesel Enthusiast
yeah its ok with a trailer but not close to my dodge. they have a deal with a dealership so all the vehicles are chevys. I am also in now way knocking chevy or ford because ive driven all of them. But they don’t have the low end torque that I like compared to a Cummins.
and yes im a ag teacher.
and yes im a ag teacher.
#33
11-07-2010, 06:51 PM
Incorrect. Horsepower is nothing but math, its not an actual unit of measurement. HP is torque over time, thats why an engine always has equal HP and TQ at 5252rpm and always has less TQ than HP above that.
Torque is actual power. An S2000 can keep up with a supercharged V6 because it has a whole bunch of power strokes per second instead of lots of torque. Thats why everybody makes fun of how wimpy its engine is below 6000rpm.
Not quite. The value and weight of your vehicle are considerably less, thats why its cheaper.
Torque is actual power. An S2000 can keep up with a supercharged V6 because it has a whole bunch of power strokes per second instead of lots of torque. Thats why everybody makes fun of how wimpy its engine is below 6000rpm.
Not quite. The value and weight of your vehicle are considerably less, thats why its cheaper.
As far as the Horsepower and torque thing goes, they are both equations for the same answer, I simply set you up there as the other post shows. We are BOTH right. But by the same token, as you said yourself, an S2000 has no torque, so wouldnt it then be the HP that determines its top speed?
#34
11-07-2010, 07:09 PM
I don't really want to be part of the pissing contest, but what about cost to repair? Sure your truck is worth $25k, $30K, $40K, and so on, but if it costs $23K to fix your $20K truck on a simple head on or something like that, insurance costs may go up. I think we can all say the way insurance companies work sucks. Sure, you may know HOW they work, but they still suck. On another note, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE HP WAR?
#35
11-07-2010, 10:29 PM
Upside: Better competition means better engines. Higher HP stock engines will usually mean better stock parts.
Downside: Everything gets more complicated.
---AutoMerged DoublePost---
Reminds me of some of youtube "geniuses". Had one guy tellin me that chips and programmers were completely pointless, they did not increase power, and only made the truck smoke more with no increase in power, and the only way to burn more fuel was to increase the cylinder size 
Lots of fun days commenting with people on youtube
Lots of fun days commenting with people on youtube
Incorrect. Horsepower is nothing but math, its not an actual unit of measurement. HP is torque over time, thats why an engine always has equal HP and TQ at 5252rpm and always has less TQ than HP above that.
Torque is actual power. An S2000 can keep up with a supercharged V6 because it has a whole bunch of power strokes per second instead of lots of torque. Thats why everybody makes fun of how wimpy its engine is below 6000rpm.
But if your stuck on torque being the all-divining factor, here is something you should understand. In a drag race, a truck that makes 500ft.-lbs. of torque at 5000rpm will beat a truck that makes 500ft.-lbs. at 2000RPM. Why? Because it makes more Horsepower.
Last edited by kazairl; 11-07-2010 at 10:29 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
#37
11-08-2010, 12:26 AM
Diesel Bomber
Sweet dude Im a Junior Ag Ed major at OSU stillwater.
An interesting note is that there is a school back home that has two Dmax's one an 05 and one an 06 (they may have replaced them by now), and the school BOUGHT Edge Juice w/Attitudes for both trucks.
Seems the ag teacher convinced the school that the programmer (well module) would save enough to money in fuel to be worth the investment
Which is a true statement, because even if it gained only 1 mpg over the trucks ~150k miles of use, it would save nearly $2500. More if it gained more than 1mpg.
An interesting note is that there is a school back home that has two Dmax's one an 05 and one an 06 (they may have replaced them by now), and the school BOUGHT Edge Juice w/Attitudes for both trucks.
Seems the ag teacher convinced the school that the programmer (well module) would save enough to money in fuel to be worth the investment
Which is a true statement, because even if it gained only 1 mpg over the trucks ~150k miles of use, it would save nearly $2500. More if it gained more than 1mpg.
#38
11-08-2010, 06:20 AM
Banned
As far as the Horsepower and torque thing goes, they are both equations for the same answer
Horsepower alone means little without knowing the conditions. An engine that makes 500lb/ft at 1500rpm will feel much more powerful to the operator than one that does the same at 3000rpm.
An example of this is the fact a 221hp Mercedes E320 diesel can keep up with a 265hp E350 g@sser in a 0-60 race. How does it make up for the 44hp slack? Torque.
an S2000 has no torque, so wouldnt it then be the HP that determines its top speed?
A train can have upwards of 6,000hp per unit, yet has a top speed of around 65mph. Why? Mass and gearing.
A human being can put out more torque than the most hopped up Diesel ever could. They just can't do it at 5000 RPM. Guess what that is called? Horsepower.
In a drag race, a truck that makes 500ft.-lbs. of torque at 5000rpm will beat a truck that makes 500ft.-lbs. at 2000RPM. Why? Because it makes more Horsepower.
Last edited by ForcedInduction; 11-08-2010 at 06:29 AM.
#39
11-08-2010, 07:33 PM
Nope. Torque is an actual unit of force that can be directly measured. Horsepower can only be determined through math.
Torque is a type of measurement, just like horsepower. Ft lbs is a measurable number like newton meters. Torque is say 1 NM per inch versus horsepower is 1 NM per second, both of them are equations so don't give me that bullshit.
Wrong. Horsepower cannot be calculated without knowing some other force first (Torque, rotation speed, inertia, friction and/or momentum, etc).
Horsepower alone means little without knowing the conditions. An engine that makes 500lb/ft at 1500rpm will feel much more powerful to the operator than one that does the same at 3000rpm.
An example of this is the fact a 221hp Mercedes E320 diesel can keep up with a 265hp E350 g@sser in a 0-60 race. How does it make up for the 44hp slack? Torque.
Your also comparing a newer car to an older one. Small diesel engines can rev quite well. Try racing a saab viggen with that mercadies diesel, you will get your butt spanked hard. It only makes 230hp but has great torque as well, why? turbochargers offer great advantages over naturally aspirated engines. Of coarse a diesel with the same hp will be faster at accelerating. The BMW 3 liter diesel makes alot of hp but it makes it at around 4000rpm, so what. the same horsepower but with more low torque will always be faster, just like your little benz comparison. Try a vw tdi against the e350 and see who wins. similar torque but far less hp.
No. Gearing, air resistance, rolling resistance, mass and environment determine top speed, in addition to torque.
A train can have upwards of 6,000hp per unit, yet has a top speed of around 65mph. Why? Mass and gearing.
Air resistance is based on friction speed and density of the surrounding medium weather it is vapor or liquid. It can be argues either way to have a closer relation to torque or HP. Think about this, an engine dyno that has no RPM signal can still measure hp but not torque. Hp is easier to calculate and you actually need more factors to find torque.
The only way a human is going to produce more toque than a diesel is with non-rotational force on a lever, which means horsepower cannot be calculated as there is no motion.
I agree somewhat, but only because a human cannot move fast enough to get a high amount of power.
The first vehicle produces more energy per unit of time, however, the second vehicle will accelerate off the line much faster.
Torque is a type of measurement, just like horsepower. Ft lbs is a measurable number like newton meters. Torque is say 1 NM per inch versus horsepower is 1 NM per second, both of them are equations so don't give me that bullshit.
Wrong. Horsepower cannot be calculated without knowing some other force first (Torque, rotation speed, inertia, friction and/or momentum, etc).
Horsepower alone means little without knowing the conditions. An engine that makes 500lb/ft at 1500rpm will feel much more powerful to the operator than one that does the same at 3000rpm.
An example of this is the fact a 221hp Mercedes E320 diesel can keep up with a 265hp E350 g@sser in a 0-60 race. How does it make up for the 44hp slack? Torque.
Your also comparing a newer car to an older one. Small diesel engines can rev quite well. Try racing a saab viggen with that mercadies diesel, you will get your butt spanked hard. It only makes 230hp but has great torque as well, why? turbochargers offer great advantages over naturally aspirated engines. Of coarse a diesel with the same hp will be faster at accelerating. The BMW 3 liter diesel makes alot of hp but it makes it at around 4000rpm, so what. the same horsepower but with more low torque will always be faster, just like your little benz comparison. Try a vw tdi against the e350 and see who wins. similar torque but far less hp.
No. Gearing, air resistance, rolling resistance, mass and environment determine top speed, in addition to torque.
A train can have upwards of 6,000hp per unit, yet has a top speed of around 65mph. Why? Mass and gearing.
Air resistance is based on friction speed and density of the surrounding medium weather it is vapor or liquid. It can be argues either way to have a closer relation to torque or HP. Think about this, an engine dyno that has no RPM signal can still measure hp but not torque. Hp is easier to calculate and you actually need more factors to find torque.
The only way a human is going to produce more toque than a diesel is with non-rotational force on a lever, which means horsepower cannot be calculated as there is no motion.
I agree somewhat, but only because a human cannot move fast enough to get a high amount of power.
The first vehicle produces more energy per unit of time, however, the second vehicle will accelerate off the line much faster.
ok you win.
