2 Cycle Oil Info...
#1
05-05-2008, 10:05 PM
2 Cycle Oil Info...
Just to kick a new thread off... Here is for the 2 cycle oil information...
2 Cycle Oil
Adding 2 Cycle Oil To Diesel Fuel
Links to MSDS Sheets, Chemical Definitions and Forum pages on on the NavBox now!
I'm still researching products and more research I'm doing the more I keep finding that diesel additive are using mineral spirits, xylene, naptha as a anti-gel and/or certane booster. But remember these chemical are NOT lubricants. I'm also finding that some of the chemical that they are using in fuel conditioners are cancer causing and have high health hazards. Like I told one user on Cummins Forum I've got a whole gallon of Xylene in the shop for paint thinner but I won't add that to my diesel fuel!
We are trying to find additives to add to our fuel that contain lubricants and not thinners. With the on set of ULSD and lack of lubricants it has the last thing your injection pump wants is more thinners. The whole idea is to put more lubricants in the fuel. I got to admit all of the above chemicals would break down the waxy chains of diesel fuel and improve the pour point. But It comes with a price of enhanced wear on your fuel system. So far I haven't found any kind of product that is like 2 cycle oil for properties.
Mix ratio for 2 cycle Oil
The easiest way to remember mix ratio for 2 cycle oil for your truck is 1 ounce of oil for every gallon of fuel. So basically if you put 20 gallons of fuel in you need 20 ounces of oil. This will work out to about 128:1 ratio which is very safe to use! Just for information purpose.
Cummins authorizes up to 5% of WEO (waste engine oil) to be blended into diesel fuel. Knowing this now you can add up to 1.75 gallons of 2 cycle oil for a 35 gallon tank. But I would only stick to using 2 cycle oil and mixing 1 oz of oil to 1 gallon of fuel...
Update! How is Diesel Fuel Transported and Handled - April 18, 2007
I found some interesting document about the way that diesel fuel is shipped and I'm going to share these document with you...
http://www.arb.ca.gov/regact/dieslub/notice.pdf <- Some information on how diesel fuel is now shipped.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/regact/dieslub/hor.pdf <- More on how diesel fuel is handled.
http://www.ncagr.com/standard/diesellubricityenforcementpolicyletter11504.pdf <- How North Carolina is handling diesel fuel.
Basically diesel fuel after being refined is well above the 520 HFRR rating which is unacceptable by any standards. So its up to the delivery personal to add the lubricant package to the truck before delivery. Currently I cannot find anything that insures that said delivery of diesel fuel will comply with the HFRR 520 limit. As far I see there is no test of the fuel after its loaded on the truck to insure it is within compliance or if the additive package was even added.
Like North Carolina is saying "It is our understanding that currently 40% to 60% of the diesel
fuel supply meets the new standard without the addition of a lubricity additive." Now how are we as consumers to be sure that the lubricant package was used when its needed? I'm sure the delivery personal are not testing every truck load of diesel before it delivered to your local fuel station.
RAW DIESEL FACTS - BEFORE A ADDITIVE PACKAGE
Ultra Low Sulfur #2 Diesel by law cannot contain more than .0015% (15 ppm) of sulfur. This fuel will generally have an HFRR rating of 600-800.
Ultra Low Sulfur #1 Diesel by law cannot contain more than .0015% (15 ppm) of sulfur. This fuel will generally have an HFRR rating of 700-900. Remember: 1000 Microns = 0.039369999999999995 Inch
As you can see above raw untreated USLD diesel is well outside the range of the 520 HFRR limit. It requires a additive package. But once again the is no regulation that insure that package was added to the truck in proper quantity for that load.
Now saying this... I know there isn't a single diesel additive product on the market today that can promise to improve the diesel fuel lubricity below 520 HFRR level! Especially if its untreated diesel fuel with a HFRR value of 700-900!!! Just something to think about when you buying a fuel additive. But I know that 2 cycle oil is reducing that number for sure!
2 Cycle Oil
Adding 2 Cycle Oil To Diesel Fuel
Introduction
I've been adding 2 cycle oil to my diesel fuel for the last about 36,000+ miles. So far I've found out that it has improved a few things like engine noise is reduced, fuel mileage increased slightly, and knowing the the fuel system is being lubricated is always a plus!
I've been adding 128:1 ratio every time I fill up with fuel. So if I pump 20-25 gallons I'll add a 20-25 ounces of 2 cycle oil. It makes it 128:1 ratio of fuel to 2 cycle oil. This is relatively low ratio and with not cause any harm engine as far as I known.
There is another reason why I'm adding 2 cycle oil to my fuel. It because of EPA changing the sulfur levels in the diesel fuel. This will reduce the lubricity. Knowing that VP44 injection pumps are a touchy subject you might as well add oil to the fuel.
Updated - November 08, 2006
More Information on ULSD...
First, I want to concentrate on the loss of the sulfur and why this is important to you. Sulfur is an Extreme Pressure (EP) lubricant. It is regularly added to lubricating oils and greases to increase the lubricity and to raise the amount of pressure that the lubricant can handle before the lubricating molecular barrier begins to break down. Sulfur has always been a vitally important factor in providing lubrication to diesel engine fuel pumps, fuel injectors, and to a lesser degree engine valves.
The reduction now being made takes on-highway diesel from less than 500 ppm to less than 15 ppm, which for all practical purposes eliminates sulfur as a lubricant in the fuel.
There are several methods of determining lubricity in fuels. The most common are: Ball on Cylinder Lubricity Evaluator (BOCLE), Scuffing Load on Ball Lubricity Evaluator (SLBOCLE), and High Frequency Reciprocating Rig (HFRR). The HFRR has emerged as the world standard and has been adopted by the ASTM and all of the engine manufacturers as the de-facto standard for measuring lubricity of fuels. HFRR ratings are counter-intuitive with the lower number showing better lubricity than a higher number.
On an HFRR test the number given is a measurement of the scar diameter (microns) produced during the test. The larger the scar diameter, the lower the lubricity, the smaller the scar the better the lubricity
Updated: Jan 03 2007More Information on ULSD...
First, I want to concentrate on the loss of the sulfur and why this is important to you. Sulfur is an Extreme Pressure (EP) lubricant. It is regularly added to lubricating oils and greases to increase the lubricity and to raise the amount of pressure that the lubricant can handle before the lubricating molecular barrier begins to break down. Sulfur has always been a vitally important factor in providing lubrication to diesel engine fuel pumps, fuel injectors, and to a lesser degree engine valves.
The reduction now being made takes on-highway diesel from less than 500 ppm to less than 15 ppm, which for all practical purposes eliminates sulfur as a lubricant in the fuel.
There are several methods of determining lubricity in fuels. The most common are: Ball on Cylinder Lubricity Evaluator (BOCLE), Scuffing Load on Ball Lubricity Evaluator (SLBOCLE), and High Frequency Reciprocating Rig (HFRR). The HFRR has emerged as the world standard and has been adopted by the ASTM and all of the engine manufacturers as the de-facto standard for measuring lubricity of fuels. HFRR ratings are counter-intuitive with the lower number showing better lubricity than a higher number.
On an HFRR test the number given is a measurement of the scar diameter (microns) produced during the test. The larger the scar diameter, the lower the lubricity, the smaller the scar the better the lubricity
Here is a few ASTM HFRR Standards...
Product Sulfur Percentage Sulfur ppm HFRR Rating High Sulfur Diesel #2 0.5 - 2% 5,000 - 20,000 ppm 300-390 HFRR Low Sulfur Diesel #2 0.05% 500 ppm 350-500 HFRR Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel #2 0.0015% 15 ppm 520 HFRR Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel #1 0.0015% 15 ppm 520 HFRR In the matter of Lubricity the ASTM after many years of discussion, has set its standard at HFRR 520 for diesel fuel as a minimum.
Amount of lubricant in diesel fuel at 1 Gallon and 35 Gallons of ULSD diesel fuel.
Product Sulfur Percentage Quantity Of Lubricant (35 Gallons) Quantity of Lubricant (1 Gallon) High Sulfur Diesel #2 0.5 - 2% 22.4 - 89.6 Ounces 0.64 - 2.56 Ounces Low Sulfur Diesel #2 0.05% 2.24 Ounces 0.064 Ounces Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel #2 0.0015% 0.0672 Ounces 0.00192 Ounces Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel #1 0.0015% 0.0672 Ounces 0.00192 Ounces When you look at it from this stand point the amount of lubricants have been reduced to next to nothing.
I'm still researching products and more research I'm doing the more I keep finding that diesel additive are using mineral spirits, xylene, naptha as a anti-gel and/or certane booster. But remember these chemical are NOT lubricants. I'm also finding that some of the chemical that they are using in fuel conditioners are cancer causing and have high health hazards. Like I told one user on Cummins Forum I've got a whole gallon of Xylene in the shop for paint thinner but I won't add that to my diesel fuel!
We are trying to find additives to add to our fuel that contain lubricants and not thinners. With the on set of ULSD and lack of lubricants it has the last thing your injection pump wants is more thinners. The whole idea is to put more lubricants in the fuel. I got to admit all of the above chemicals would break down the waxy chains of diesel fuel and improve the pour point. But It comes with a price of enhanced wear on your fuel system. So far I haven't found any kind of product that is like 2 cycle oil for properties.
Mix ratio for 2 cycle Oil
The easiest way to remember mix ratio for 2 cycle oil for your truck is 1 ounce of oil for every gallon of fuel. So basically if you put 20 gallons of fuel in you need 20 ounces of oil. This will work out to about 128:1 ratio which is very safe to use! Just for information purpose.
Cummins authorizes up to 5% of WEO (waste engine oil) to be blended into diesel fuel. Knowing this now you can add up to 1.75 gallons of 2 cycle oil for a 35 gallon tank. But I would only stick to using 2 cycle oil and mixing 1 oz of oil to 1 gallon of fuel...
Update! How is Diesel Fuel Transported and Handled - April 18, 2007
I found some interesting document about the way that diesel fuel is shipped and I'm going to share these document with you...
http://www.arb.ca.gov/regact/dieslub/notice.pdf <- Some information on how diesel fuel is now shipped.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/regact/dieslub/hor.pdf <- More on how diesel fuel is handled.
http://www.ncagr.com/standard/diesellubricityenforcementpolicyletter11504.pdf <- How North Carolina is handling diesel fuel.
Basically diesel fuel after being refined is well above the 520 HFRR rating which is unacceptable by any standards. So its up to the delivery personal to add the lubricant package to the truck before delivery. Currently I cannot find anything that insures that said delivery of diesel fuel will comply with the HFRR 520 limit. As far I see there is no test of the fuel after its loaded on the truck to insure it is within compliance or if the additive package was even added.
Like North Carolina is saying "It is our understanding that currently 40% to 60% of the diesel
fuel supply meets the new standard without the addition of a lubricity additive." Now how are we as consumers to be sure that the lubricant package was used when its needed? I'm sure the delivery personal are not testing every truck load of diesel before it delivered to your local fuel station.
RAW DIESEL FACTS - BEFORE A ADDITIVE PACKAGE
Ultra Low Sulfur #2 Diesel by law cannot contain more than .0015% (15 ppm) of sulfur. This fuel will generally have an HFRR rating of 600-800.
Ultra Low Sulfur #1 Diesel by law cannot contain more than .0015% (15 ppm) of sulfur. This fuel will generally have an HFRR rating of 700-900. Remember: 1000 Microns = 0.039369999999999995 Inch
As you can see above raw untreated USLD diesel is well outside the range of the 520 HFRR limit. It requires a additive package. But once again the is no regulation that insure that package was added to the truck in proper quantity for that load.
Now saying this... I know there isn't a single diesel additive product on the market today that can promise to improve the diesel fuel lubricity below 520 HFRR level! Especially if its untreated diesel fuel with a HFRR value of 700-900!!! Just something to think about when you buying a fuel additive. But I know that 2 cycle oil is reducing that number for sure!
Last edited by DB Admin; 05-06-2008 at 08:48 AM.
#2
05-05-2008, 11:12 PM
Continued from Mopars original post. Update! Winter Time Performance of 2 Cycle Oil - April 30, 2007
For starters my lowest temperature around here was recorded at -20.2*F (-29*C) on January 16, 2007 in New Meadows, Idaho. This was recorded by my on-board thermometer which hold histories of HI and LO temps for both inside and out. During this entire season I never use a single anti-gel product on the market. Just diesel fuel and 2 cycle oil.
Now remember above in the specs sheet for ULSD the gel point is 0*F.
Now think about it. A snowmobile runs on a mixture of about 40:1 to 50:1 gasoline and 2 cycle oil. This very same snowmobile must run in extreme temperatures down as low as -40*F (40*C) and maybe lower. But what I want to point out here is...
2 Cycle Oil Fuel Mileage
As you can see I've go no loss of power or economy with the use of 2 cycle oil. All I got is high points! Think about it most people see a decrease in fuel mileage during the winter time. I'm not seeing much of a decrease this winter between the Edge Comp and the 2 Cycle Oil used in my fuel.
As for IP and LP pumps. I'm currently got 43K miles on my VP44 injection pump with no problems so far. Then I got 10K miles on my current carter Campaign pump. Which still got 11-12 @ WOT yet!
Update! Using 2 Cycle Oil in ULSD Designed Trucks (2007+ Diesel Vehicles) - April 30, 2007
I would highly suggest that no one uses 2 cycle oil in a vehicle that is already designed for ULSD. These engines have some very expensive equipment on board like diesel particulate filters etc. These device are not cheap to replace. Also remember this might or will VOID your warranty on your truck. These engine have been redesigned to be run on fuel that are very low in lubricants (Sulfur content).
UPDATE! May 19, 2007- 2 Cycle Oil And The DynoJet...
Well there has been a lot of talk about 2 cycle oil hurting to HP/TQ numbers. Well I'm here to set the records straight for once and for all...
First off let me lay down some baseline information. You all have seen my web page on my BOMBs and MODs I've done. Ok... We all know that the 2002 Cummins SO is rated for 235 HP 460TQ at the flywheel.
Well this proves there is very little drag between the flywheel to the rear end. Also this proves there was very little improvement in HP/TQ number concerning 2 cycle oil. I'm using conventional Dino lubes in everything except the transmission which requires the Castrol SynTorque. But still even this number is high for HP/TQ at the rear wheels... 2 Cycle oil maybe???
For starters my lowest temperature around here was recorded at -20.2*F (-29*C) on January 16, 2007 in New Meadows, Idaho. This was recorded by my on-board thermometer which hold histories of HI and LO temps for both inside and out. During this entire season I never use a single anti-gel product on the market. Just diesel fuel and 2 cycle oil.
Now remember above in the specs sheet for ULSD the gel point is 0*F.
Now think about it. A snowmobile runs on a mixture of about 40:1 to 50:1 gasoline and 2 cycle oil. This very same snowmobile must run in extreme temperatures down as low as -40*F (40*C) and maybe lower. But what I want to point out here is...
- There is no problem with 2 cycle oil gelling up in a snowmobile in extreme temperatures as low as -40*F (-40*C)
- With mixtures as low as 40:1 a high performance snowmobile runs great. There is no reason why a 128:1 mixture in you diesel truck would lose performance to that mixture.
- Knowing that 2 cycle oil is lubricating your entire system compared to using a harsh solvent (that thins the lubricants) to breakdown the wax of diesel to keep the fuel flowing.
- Remember that very same snowmobile has no other lubrication system on board only the 2 cycle oil in the fuel to lube the entire engine. So it a prefect lubricant for your fuel system on your diesel truck.
2 Cycle Oil Fuel Mileage
As you can see I've go no loss of power or economy with the use of 2 cycle oil. All I got is high points! Think about it most people see a decrease in fuel mileage during the winter time. I'm not seeing much of a decrease this winter between the Edge Comp and the 2 Cycle Oil used in my fuel.
As for IP and LP pumps. I'm currently got 43K miles on my VP44 injection pump with no problems so far. Then I got 10K miles on my current carter Campaign pump. Which still got 11-12 @ WOT yet!
Update! Using 2 Cycle Oil in ULSD Designed Trucks (2007+ Diesel Vehicles) - April 30, 2007
I would highly suggest that no one uses 2 cycle oil in a vehicle that is already designed for ULSD. These engines have some very expensive equipment on board like diesel particulate filters etc. These device are not cheap to replace. Also remember this might or will VOID your warranty on your truck. These engine have been redesigned to be run on fuel that are very low in lubricants (Sulfur content).
UPDATE! May 19, 2007- 2 Cycle Oil And The DynoJet...
Well there has been a lot of talk about 2 cycle oil hurting to HP/TQ numbers. Well I'm here to set the records straight for once and for all...
First off let me lay down some baseline information. You all have seen my web page on my BOMBs and MODs I've done. Ok... We all know that the 2002 Cummins SO is rated for 235 HP 460TQ at the flywheel.
Well this proves there is very little drag between the flywheel to the rear end. Also this proves there was very little improvement in HP/TQ number concerning 2 cycle oil. I'm using conventional Dino lubes in everything except the transmission which requires the Castrol SynTorque. But still even this number is high for HP/TQ at the rear wheels... 2 Cycle oil maybe???
Ok we all know the Edge Comp give about 120 HP on 5x5 setting but now do the math. 381 - 228 = 153 - 120 = 33 HP difference! Where did this power come from? I got no other fueling enhancements and only a BHAF and straight piped exhaust 3"... Stock injectors, stock turbo, stock VP44 and LP pumps.
As for my fuel / 2 cycle oil ratio he is what I had. I filled up with 26.306 gallons of diesel fuel and poured in 32 ounces of 2 cycle oil (SuperTech Outboard). So that means...
26.306 (Gallons) x 128 = 3,367.168 Ounces of fuel.
3,367.168 / 32 Ounces Of Oil = 105.224:1 Ratio of diesel Fuel to Oil.
I admit this is a bit heavy mixture of 2 cycle oil to fuel. But I've been getting a bit lazy about measuring my oil so if I'm nearly empty I would add the full quart regardless.
It's got to be the 2 cycle oil helping the burn of the fuel.. So never the less I'm a extremely happy camper and will continue to use 2 cycle oil in my fuel.
Last edited by DB Admin; 05-06-2008 at 08:49 AM.
#3
05-06-2008, 08:53 AM
UPDATE! - July 18 2007 - Cetane What is it? What does it do?
I'm still seeing a large amount of people that want to continue adding cetane boosters to the 2 cycle oil this is not required. Today diesel fuel is approximately 43 - 47 cetane number. Please check over on the MSDS page.
There is no benefit to using a higher cetane number fuel than is specified by the engine's manufacturer. The ASTM Standard Specification for Diesel Fuel Oils (D-975) states, "The cetane number requirements depend on engine design, size, nature of speed and load variations, and on starting and atmospheric conditions. Increase in cetane number over values actually required does not materially improve engine performance. Accordingly, the cetane number specified should be as low as possible to insure maximum fuel availability." This quote underscores the importance of matching engine cetane requirements with fuel cetane number!!!
So adding cetane boosters are not going to improve the performance of the engine and/or fuel.
Cetane improvers modify combustion in the engine. They encourage early ignition of the fuel. They encourage premature combustion and excessive rate of pressure increase in the combustion cycle.
Look at the materials they use in most cetane boosters. Mineral Spirits, Xylene, and Naptha none of these chemicals are even close to the diesel fuel family. They also have very low flash points like gasoline! Every one of them are used for degreasing and cleaning solvents.
Cetane Number is a measure of the ignition quality of a diesel fuel. It is often mistaken as a measure of fuel quality. Cetane number is actually a measure of a fuel's ignition delay. This is the time period between the start of injection and start of combustion (ignition) of the fuel. In a particular diesel engine, higher cetane fuels will have shorter ignition delay periods than lower cetane fuels.
Cetane booster tend to advance the timing of ignition. Hence the ignition knock that you hear. The lower the cetane number the less ignition knock you'll hear. Also the flash point and the auto-ignition temps of the fuel is reduced greatly.
Cetane number should not be considered alone when evaluating diesel fuel quality. API gravity, BTU content, distillation range, sulfur content, stability and flash point are very important. In colder weather, cloud point and low temperature filter plugging point may be critical factors.
All of the cetane boosters on the market tend to reduce the BTU content of the fuel. Hence it reduces the MPG and the HP/TQ numbers. Sulfur content is been reduced national to 520 HFRR (<15 PPM Sulfur) which mean less lubricity of the fuel. Cetane boosters tend to de-stabilize the flash point. Go back to my Chemical definition page and look at the flash points of the different chemicals.
I'm still seeing a large amount of people that want to continue adding cetane boosters to the 2 cycle oil this is not required. Today diesel fuel is approximately 43 - 47 cetane number. Please check over on the MSDS page.
Cummins Cetane Requirements for 1st, 2nd and 3rd Gen Trucks
A Cetane rating of 40 is recommended at temperatures above 32 degrees.
A Cetane rating of 45 is recommended at temperatures below 32 degrees.
So adding cetane boosters are not going to improve the performance of the engine and/or fuel.
Cetane improvers modify combustion in the engine. They encourage early ignition of the fuel. They encourage premature combustion and excessive rate of pressure increase in the combustion cycle.
Look at the materials they use in most cetane boosters. Mineral Spirits, Xylene, and Naptha none of these chemicals are even close to the diesel fuel family. They also have very low flash points like gasoline! Every one of them are used for degreasing and cleaning solvents.
Cetane Number is a measure of the ignition quality of a diesel fuel. It is often mistaken as a measure of fuel quality. Cetane number is actually a measure of a fuel's ignition delay. This is the time period between the start of injection and start of combustion (ignition) of the fuel. In a particular diesel engine, higher cetane fuels will have shorter ignition delay periods than lower cetane fuels.
Cetane booster tend to advance the timing of ignition. Hence the ignition knock that you hear. The lower the cetane number the less ignition knock you'll hear. Also the flash point and the auto-ignition temps of the fuel is reduced greatly.
Cetane number should not be considered alone when evaluating diesel fuel quality. API gravity, BTU content, distillation range, sulfur content, stability and flash point are very important. In colder weather, cloud point and low temperature filter plugging point may be critical factors.
All of the cetane boosters on the market tend to reduce the BTU content of the fuel. Hence it reduces the MPG and the HP/TQ numbers. Sulfur content is been reduced national to 520 HFRR (<15 PPM Sulfur) which mean less lubricity of the fuel. Cetane boosters tend to de-stabilize the flash point. Go back to my Chemical definition page and look at the flash points of the different chemicals.
Last edited by DB Admin; 05-06-2008 at 11:18 AM.
The following users liked this post:
AlCorr (05-10-2008)
#4
05-17-2008, 03:49 PM
good stuff I have been running the 2stroke oil for a year now with no issues just slight mileage gain and it's quieter and the fact the vp is getting lube thats important.. any place to get it in a bulk format cheaper?
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