Biodiesel and E-85 that you buy at the pump have already been taxed for road use, I don't know how they figure electricity for plug in hybrids, when the eco-buzz wears off they'll prolly figure it into registration fees. No road tax on Wvo means technically it's not legal for road use,IMO. Kind of like red diesel. No horse in this race, but if anybody gets busted, please let us know. So Whargoul can gloat. Jk. Try to save someone else the hassle.

 

[quote=Whargoul;885847]1: Its illegal.
2: Its harmful to all diesel engines.
3: Biodiesel was invented specifically to fix all SVO/WVO's problems.


Its not a fuel so its not approved for on-highway use by the EPA or DOT.
Certification for either is impossible since WVO can't be standardized like Biodiesel. To date no "conversion" company has even attempted to get their "conversion" legalized by the EPA or DOT.



[QUOTE]

where are you getting your info on it being harmful? im really not trying to start a fight or an argument, just gathering info. ive been looking into this for a while and as far as the harmful, it seems like you get what you give into it. IF you filter and run a propper system, there are guys running 100k + miles on it with no issues. im just trying to figure out how they can do this with no issues?

illegal? i can see the whole no road tax deal sure... but if you "modify" your vehicle from a dealer/manufacturer spec your car is now "illegal". so there fore nothing i own is road legal due to tint, exhaust, suspension etc. i guess im fortunite enough to live in an area where it reall doesnt matter and isnt regulated. if i still lived in so cal id prob be screwed

by bio i suppose you mean bought from a pump. i know a few guys brewing bio in the back yard, not sure how that would be any different than wvo other than not having caustic chemicals at the house

there are a few guys local that are running wvo. been pulled over, questioned. either the cop thought it was cool and asked for info on putting it on his own rig, or the other explained to the cop that it was an "additive" since it wasnt run 100% on wvo, and there was a D2 system still in play. cop said they dont/cant regulate fuel additives he was let go with no issue. i think its all in how you handle the cops.

in most of the country you will probobly have no issues. in some hippy states......well i try to stay out of those

 

Who cares????

 

Diesel fuel, at the pump, is usually only filtered to 35 micron, to get the crap that accumulates during multiple trans-loading events.

My WVO is dewatered and filtered to 5 microns.

ULSD has very little lubricity and has led to the early demise of many an injector pump.
WVO is hot oil....with a lot of carbon, oh did I mention it's hot oil? No thermal shock to any component, oh, and it's made of oil.

Safe? Q:What is the flashpoint of diesel compared to WVO?
A:410*f and 600*f

Or did you mean safe for the engine?

Well wvo has less BTU, which of course means less power per comparable unit, but it also means lower EGT's, less reactive (explosive) shock to internal components, and ANY diesel engine runs smoother on WVO. Your Bio-D has more BTU's per unit, as it "holds" on to more oxygen, more bang, more ka-pow!

Legal, well you might actually have produced one (1) valid point.

And it's a damn shame it's not 100% black and white legal. But you won't see many WVO users out rallying or donating to PAC's to get it legalized. We know there is only a finite supply in any local. And if it were cheap, (mostly free for me) easy, (depends on your DIY level) and legal, every knothead would have converted or jumped on the bandwagon. Look how many Bio-D users there are just because it is convenient at the pump, (no offense to good hearted Bio-D users/refiners.)

And I would wager to say that the transportation industry and local municipalities would lobby to make it a Certified Solid Waste where they would be the only LEGAL end users. Thus cutting off the precious supply of oil for both WVO users and Bio-D users. Even the few holier-than-thou Bio-D guys.

I am still waiting for my Gov't. check reimbursing me for that the Federal Highway Taxed gasoline I have had to pay for to fuel my snow-machine, snow-blower, weed-whacker, speed boat, generator, chainsaw, 2-stroke margarita mixer, and the wifes' kick-start vi....well you get the idea anyway.

The way I see it, even if I heat my home with WVO, the wife drives around attending to special needs children in a WVO vehicle, and I drive my yearly 3600 miles, THEY.... OWE... ...ME! Pay-up sucka's!


The few above posts in this thread smell rankly similar to the drivel poured on some innocent posters from a few forums I have joined.

There was a user called "Forced Induction" who would swoop down out of the rafters and troll Alternative Fuel forums just waiting to pounce on anyone inquiring about, or mentioning the use of WVO as a fuel. Benzworld.org was one the user got banned from, and I did even observe him being asked to "dial it back a bit" at his own "home" forum of superturbodiesel.com.

Ranting about the use of WVO seems to be the specialty of a few Bio-D users.

Is it that we are competing for supply?

Are you guys jealous of the herds of BBW that follow the french-fry odor of our trucks?

Brain damage form methanol inhalation perhaps?

What? Why, the animosity, the holier than thou attitude?

Is you a Tax collector for a living?

I don't get it.

 

Whargoul;889057]
"Tax isn't the issue, its the lack of EPA and DOT approval as well as WVO's damage to engines."
Prove it, the damage, from your personal experience.


"Real world experience.
Companies like Lovecraft and Elsbett have "converted" thousands of cars over the years, yet very few are still on the road. Ever wonder why?"

Hmmm, how come you mentioned the two worst possible conversions companies, and didn't mention the two most successful, FRYBRID and BIOFUELSTECHNOLOGIES, who both make the highest quality and best functioning systems out there? Frybrid, who figured out how to make anything with a Diesel motor run on VO, well, and Biofuels Technologies who have done very well with truck engines, even the infamous 6.0 Ford. Sorry GMC/Chevy guys, your @$$ out as always, your trucks are either too old to run it, or too new and complicated.


"There are no such people."

Hi! I have over 55,000 miles on my '83 300SD, in Alaska, in the winter, in the freaking -30*F weather. I am really real, and I'll see you at 100,000 miles. My F250 will be there too!


"They don't they are just simple liars, usually trying to get people to buy a conversion like theirs."

Call me a liar to my face, sucker.


"Wrong. Whwn you buy something, its yours. All products on the market are DOT and EPA approved, if they aren't they will state "off-road use only" or "Not for sale in California".
?????


"Biodiesel is easy to make. You can buy a processor for the same price as a "conversion" for your vehicle."

Sure, just add some methanol, maybe some lye, heat, a lot of electricity, proper HAZWASTE disposal fees if needed, don't forget to make damn sure you don't blow up your family, neighbor, shop, self, etc. while performing this "easy" refinement, as countless others have. I do hope my neighbor isn't heating methanol up in a very large tank in his garage adjacent to my kids sandbox and swing-set.


"Biodiesel is a standardized fuel. WVO is not."

Yet.

Biodiesel started somewhere, perhaps you believe it was made legal and then everyone decided to try and learn how to make it? No.
And another thing, it wasn't the chicken or the egg, the rooster came first.


"Simple human ignorance. Cops are people, people can't be expected to be aware of and enforce every law in the books. Cops overlook hundreds of illegal things every day. And just like normal people, there are bad cops that don't do their job well."

Every cop I have encountered has rehashed the old "Ignorance of the law is not an excuse...." so I'm not buying into this.


"You, apparently. You took the effort to read the post, press the reply button and type a reply. So either you care or you're just looking for [/QUOTE]"

Really, though he's right, America land of the free, home of the brave right?
I am bravely doing what I believe allows me freedom.

 

Whey ghey whargoul

I burn whatever I get my hands on, mainly used gear oil, used brake fluid, used wheel bearing grease, and especially used engine coolant. Just don't want to brake your laws on running motor oil....am I ok with this or can you find something wrong with my post too???

 

Originally Posted by ak49er View Post

Diesel fuel, at the pump, is usually only filtered to 35 micron, to get the crap that accumulates during multiple trans-loading events.

Thats why all vehicles have a fuel filter, thus nullifying your "I have a 5 micron filter" argument.

.Oh we were talking about in your car....umkay

ULSD has very little lubricity

That is false information.

Is not.

and has led to the early demise of many an injector pump.

That is false information.

Is not.

WVO is hot oil....with a lot of carbon

Which is what kills the engine, that high carbon content is what plugs the rings and injectors and the heat kills the injection pump (since its cooled by the fuel, 160-180*f "fuel" it will overheat the pump).

Yes carbon becomes coke when "burned" but carbon does make great lubricant, but that will not happen in a properly designed, maintained and operated system. In fact I used Carbon Graphite to lubricate Row 5 Turbine Blades in a 80mw Gas Turbine today, and used several cans of Dry-Graphite Film to lubricate the horizontal joint of a 70 ton upper casing to a lower casing, and every bolt that went in had some coating of graphite on it so I can remove them in four years. In fact if I had to pick a powdered mineral to run through my engine on a regular basis, I'm going with pure carbon.

Which injection pump? My 6.0 doesn't have one, and my 300SD has a oil heated injection pump, I am sure my engine oil is a lot hotter than 160*F

Safe? Q:What is the flashpoint of diesel compared to WVO?
A:410*f and 600*f

Let me know when you get your engine running at 410*f.

I didn't know we were running it, based on your generalization.

Well wvo has less BTU, which of course means less power per comparable unit, but it also means lower EGT's

You forgot less power, higher fuel consumption and higher emissions.

I believe less power was my 10th and 11th word in that sentence, the fuel is free, double my consumption, I dare you! Hmmm, I'm on the fence on this one but I'll play it anyhow, CARBON NEUTRAL!

and ANY diesel engine runs smoother on WVO.

You mistake "smooth" running as a good thing. It runs smoother because its not burning efficiently.

I'm a mechanic for a living, I know smooth. Pull a plug on a gasser, does it run smoother or rougher, ever tune up an engine? How about adjust a rack damper screw on a BOSCH IP? Smoother or just inefficient? I balance a 36 ton rotor to less than half a gram inch is it more efficient now just by being balanced and moving through space easier, Yes.



But you won't see many WVO users out rallying or donating to PAC's to get it legalized.

Right, that would mean they would become law abiding citizens again. Thus blowing the whole "entitled rebel" attitude out the window.

Entitled Rebel? I am sure the British said the same thing when we we're illegally dumping tea, guv'nah.

BTW Entitled Rebel WILL be my alter avatar if I ever have to go by one.

And I would wager to say that the transportation industry and local municipalities would lobby to make it a Certified Solid Waste where they would be the only LEGAL end users.

They already are. A permit is required to transport and dispose of used waste oil. In many jurisdictions a hazmat endorsement is needed on your license and some states require upwards of $100,000 insurance coverage.

Not under 200 gals in MOST states.

I am still waiting for my Gov't. check reimbursing me for that the Federal Highway Taxed gasoline I have had to pay for to fuel my snow-machine, snow-blower, weed-whacker, speed boat, generator, chainsaw, 2-stroke margarita mixer, and the wifes' kick-start vi....well you get the idea anyway.

Thats 100% your fault. I claim all my off-road fuel on my taxes and I get refunded for them.

Damn, really? I am totally going to have to start filing federal taxes so I can save that sweet money!


Are you guys jealous of the herds of BBW that follow the french-fry odor of our trucks?

That odor is called "incomplete combustion".

That sir is the smell of money saved., Really though, your Bio-D is odorless? Or would you agree that all internal combustion engines, exhibit a factor of incomplete combustion? I do know that even if I plug my truck in below 20*F, and let it warm up, that I am engaging in active incomplete combustion until the engine finally comes up to "operating temperature", which at that time, I am ready to switch to WVO anyway.

---AutoMerged DoublePost---

Coolant as a fuel? Please elaborate. Would that be a three tank system, the hot side stays hot and the coolant side stays coolant? Like a MC DLT?

 

This is laughable.

A properly converted WVO system has proven itself time and time again. By properly converted, I'm talking a good, heated, two-tank system.

We can listen to Whargoul who seems to have tried this once and failed miserably at it (sent a motor to the junkyard?) Or the guys who are using the systems with thousands of miles... some with 100's of thousands of miles.

I see no harm in doing it either way, bio or WVO, but both way's have precautions that need to be taken, obviously. Each has their advantages.

I would have run bio, but storing caustic chemicals at a house I rent didn't seem like a good idea. Coupled with that, bio seems more suited to a fleet of vehicles, instead of just one like I intended on running on an alternative fuel. The last nail in the coffin for me to push me away from bio was the fact I couldn't run it during our cold winter months. Yet, my vegistroke system has proved reliable down past temps that were too cold for my factory diesel system. I have had days where I couldn't push diesel, yet my vegistroke got me to work and back thanks to it's heated design.

Whargoul, you sound like one of those guys who tried WVO the wrong way and got bit by it, now hold a huge grudge against it. Just a few of your comments lead me to believe your knowledge is filled with half-truths and a lot of misinformation. Dumping WVO into your stock tank is a stupid idea. It's easy to see why you had problems. I also like how you mentioned the two worst companies on the market with WVO conversion systems...

Either way can work (bio or WVO) but if you don't know what you're doing, then both can also fail.

If anyone would like some good FACTUAL info with proven results and physical evidence, you know who to ask.

 

I don't know what it is about internet stupidity that draws me in like a moth to a flame.


WVO isn't a fuel? Odd, my truck has been running on it for 60k miles. The only way it is illegal is if you don't pay road taxes. I agree that it's harmful to your motor if you don't properly convert your vehicle, but food for thought: biodiesel is primarily made from wvo.

I agree that Rudolph Diesel was not present when modern day diesels were designed. But the operating concept of a diesel engine has not changed since it was invented: compress air to the point where it's heated sufficiently to ignite a fuel source when it's introduced to the environment.

As a FYI, Mr. Diesel debuted his invention in 1898 and ran it on peanut oil. Not coal dust.



All your double posts that were merged make it impossible to easily quote the rest of your ramblings, so I'll summarize:

I'm not lying when I say I've run over 60k miles on wvo since 2008 without a mechanical failure related to the conversion, and I personally know at least three other people who each have over 100k miles on straight wvo without experiencing a mechanical failure attributed to wvo.

Biodiesel is NOT easy to make when compared to processing wvo.

Let you know when I get my engine running at 410*. Ohhhhhhhkay. How about every time I've driven for more than 15 seconds. It's hard to put any type of weight behind what you're saying when you're trying to use engine coolant temperature (or oil temperature) when you should be thinking about cylinder temperatures, most commonly measured as exhaust gas temperatures. I'm sure you've heard of those. Mine sits at nearly 400* at idle and holds around 700-800* at cruising speeds.

160-180* fuel overheats the injection pump (which you stated is actually part of the injector on many diesels)? How hot do you think diesel fuel is by the the time it makes it to the injector? Remember, it's either sitting in a fuel rail, highly compressed, or both.

Higher emissions? Have you seen a side by side comparison of the emissions of a diesel running straight veg oil vs. diesel? I promise you the emissions of the former are much lower. Almost non-existent.

Less power, higher fuel consumption? Back to back dyno runs on wvo and diesel showed a power loss of less than 5%. Barely noticable seat of the pants, and 15 hp will not significantly impact fuel consumption.

Smooth running -- when things are not burning efficiently, the motor runs rougher, not smoother. You may be the very first person to say that a smoother running engine is running that way because it's not burning fuel efficiently. Well, maybe the second, because you had to get that nugget from somewhere.

WVO is not hazmat (ask the EPA if you don't believe me) Permits may be needed because it's a liquid and baffled tanks may be required depending on how much wvo is being transported.

That odor is called incomplete combustion? No, smoke would be called incomplete combustion. That odor is french fries.

Scam companies? Just like every other product on the free market, some companies are better than others. Sometimes it's the quality of what they're selling and sometimes it's the customer service. I suppose I got scammed almost four years ago and haven't been smart enough to realize it.

The only standardization needed with wvo is that is has to be nearly free of water, free of chemicals, and filtered.

I find it humorous that you think you have the answer to the chicken vs. egg question (one that has been debated for centuries), but can't wrap your head around running wvo.

 

Great advice....-30*F Cab temperature, transmission temperature, frosted windows, etc. and you suggest build oil pressure and go?

I probably would abstain from "romping it" for about 8 months out of the year due to ice covered roads, or even roads ma e of ice crossing rivers, lakes and lagoons. Good advice anyway.

Yes CG @ FRYBRID had a useable kit for almost every engine as they were presented to him, even building one off systems, find me one unhappy FRYBRID customer. (that has received the system they ordered, a whole other subject for sure)

Personal attacks are a sure sign of ones loose footing on a said subject, refrain or frame your self as a 'tard.

Big Lake, AK, c'mon up, although I'll be going through Denver toward Grand Junction this summer (on WVO) if that makes it easier for you.


"Biodiesel started somewhere, perhaps you believe it was made legal and then everyone decided to try and learn how to make it? No."

"Sorry, no. WVO is physically impossible to standardize. Each batch is different in its acidity (food cooked in it), oxidation (age and heat exposure), chemical compounds (fry bin cleaners) and fat content (food). The method to treat each of those variables and produce a consistent product that is compatible with as many engines as possible has already been developed and standardized, its called BioDiesel (transesterification)."

Was this an attempt to counter that statement or just a random thought?

As I stated before, there were Entitled Rebels who pioneered that way for you to produce and use Bio-D years before there was legislation to make it legal.

The chicken and the egg was a lighthearted statement, your propensity to argue it, puts you somewhere in the realm of "Spectrum Disorder", IMHO.

No Nukes in AK, and I work at a power plant, It's too late to avoid EMF's. (I do have tinfoil under the ole hardhat though!)

Junkyard? Sorry you failed at VO, I have seen other failures (people) as well, and after reading their posts, it easy to understand why.

About 9-10 months after ULSD introduction to AK, the diesel service shops were chock full of older vehicles with IP problems, maybe not in your area, but it did happen here for sure.

In all the forums I have joined, and all the posts I have read, and out of all the diesel mechanics I have talked to, Forced Induction and Winmutt are the only two people I have heard spout off so vehemently against WVO.


So, point blank, are you, or were you the avatar famously known as Forced Induction?