HELP 7.3 IDI won't start!
#1
01-06-2011, 04:42 PM
HELP 7.3 IDI won't start!
1990 econoline e350 7,3IDI
What's the case:
Sat for 2 years!
-Lift pump good
-Fuel filter good
-Al glow-plugs work excellent (red glowing)
-lots of compression.
-fresh diesel in both tanks and filter primed with injector/pump cleaner.
-Fuel shutoff valve works (clicks)
-good recharged batteries
-starter-motor turns over good.
-no water in tank
The damn van doesn't start.
If i loosen a injector-line to purge air out while cranking how much fuel has to leak out?
What's the case:
Sat for 2 years!
-Lift pump good
-Fuel filter good
-Al glow-plugs work excellent (red glowing)
-lots of compression.
-fresh diesel in both tanks and filter primed with injector/pump cleaner.
-Fuel shutoff valve works (clicks)
-good recharged batteries
-starter-motor turns over good.
-no water in tank
The damn van doesn't start.
If i loosen a injector-line to purge air out while cranking how much fuel has to leak out?
#2
01-06-2011, 05:44 PM
Welcome Victor!
So your van sat for two years?
Take out the injectors. If you are able(have the knowledge on how to)to disassemble the injectors and check how the valve stem slides back into the injector housing. It must slide only by gravity!!!
Be careful you have to work extremly clean. Or you take the injectors and have those injectors tested at the next Bosch service- it will run you between 10 and 20€. Have them checked for release pressure and spray pattern.
After two years it might be possible that the injectors are stuck, corroded, or have a faulty spray pattern.
Another common problem is air in the IP. Loosen the injector fuel line slightly until fuel pours out -you can expect 100 to 200ml per injector.
Replace hoses and clamps from the fuel filter to the IP. the slightest crack and air suction will give you headaches. It's simply not worth to deal with it- replace them!
So your van sat for two years?
Take out the injectors. If you are able(have the knowledge on how to)to disassemble the injectors and check how the valve stem slides back into the injector housing. It must slide only by gravity!!!
Be careful you have to work extremly clean. Or you take the injectors and have those injectors tested at the next Bosch service- it will run you between 10 and 20€. Have them checked for release pressure and spray pattern.
After two years it might be possible that the injectors are stuck, corroded, or have a faulty spray pattern.
Another common problem is air in the IP. Loosen the injector fuel line slightly until fuel pours out -you can expect 100 to 200ml per injector.
Replace hoses and clamps from the fuel filter to the IP. the slightest crack and air suction will give you headaches. It's simply not worth to deal with it- replace them!
Last edited by Deezel Stink3r; 01-06-2011 at 05:48 PM.
#3
01-06-2011, 09:45 PM
thanks for the welcome
i quote from someone else:
full hydro roller valvetrain system. this motor has been sitting approx 1-1.5 yrs since it was last used and along with moisture buildup and what not being its enemy with starting right now, if the oil bled down from the lifters, can that cause it to not be opening the valves hence the blowback and refusal to vapor lock?
i have experianced the same
i think this is the problem. starting fluid does not work( ofcourse no use of GP) wich is normal if the valves don't move, wich also explanes the blowingback from the intake.
my van has been put away driving and working fine
2 years ago it ran for the last time. when i tryed to start it at the time i had exactly the same problem as now because it had been sitting for 1 year. after ALLOT of cranking it just started.
by the way, what in a IP can cause faillure by standing stil for a long time.
tnx
---AutoMerged DoublePost---
i also hardly beleve al 8 injectors are stuck. because it has not yet fired on a single cylinder.
thank you very much for the help though,
Vic
---AutoMerged DoublePost---
just took the valve cover off to check if the valves/rocker-arms move, and they do move so the valves open and close.
so the problem had to be in the Injector-pump or injectors
---AutoMerged DoublePost---
"Loosen the injector fuel line slightly until fuel pours out" at what side?
"-you can expect 100 to 200ml per injector." in what time?
i quote from someone else:
full hydro roller valvetrain system. this motor has been sitting approx 1-1.5 yrs since it was last used and along with moisture buildup and what not being its enemy with starting right now, if the oil bled down from the lifters, can that cause it to not be opening the valves hence the blowback and refusal to vapor lock?
i have experianced the same
i think this is the problem. starting fluid does not work( ofcourse no use of GP) wich is normal if the valves don't move, wich also explanes the blowingback from the intake.
my van has been put away driving and working fine
2 years ago it ran for the last time. when i tryed to start it at the time i had exactly the same problem as now because it had been sitting for 1 year. after ALLOT of cranking it just started.
by the way, what in a IP can cause faillure by standing stil for a long time.
tnx
---AutoMerged DoublePost---
i also hardly beleve al 8 injectors are stuck. because it has not yet fired on a single cylinder.
thank you very much for the help though,
Vic
---AutoMerged DoublePost---
just took the valve cover off to check if the valves/rocker-arms move, and they do move so the valves open and close.
so the problem had to be in the Injector-pump or injectors
---AutoMerged DoublePost---
"Loosen the injector fuel line slightly until fuel pours out" at what side?
"-you can expect 100 to 200ml per injector." in what time?
Last edited by Victor 7.3 IDI; 01-06-2011 at 09:45 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
#4
01-06-2011, 09:50 PM
Do you have any kind of smoke? Which colour? No smoke? ---> no fuel in the combustion chamber!Or still blocked valves...
Squirt a bit of engine oil into each chamber before you crank. This helps to prevent damage to the absolute dry liners and increases combustion pressure and seal.(Hopefully you did this before starting to crank the engine.)
Not using an engine for a long time is a real killer. It has a reason why so called long term storage procedures are performed.
The IP and the injectors have closest tolerances in an engine. That means any corrosion has fatal effects. It mustn't be a total injector failure, but a changed or influenced spray pattern has huge side effects.
Moving rockers and valve stems are no indicators of a moving hydraulic tappet. It takes a while to fill them up again. Because you need a bunch of oil pressure to activate( to overcome spring pressure) and to refill them.
It has a reason why long storage engines are external primed before reactivating...
If the engine hasn't fired on any cylinder you still get no fuel or you still have a compression problem. Whats the average chamber pressure?
Some questions appear odd. If you want to bleed a line- where do you open it? At the beginning or at the the final end(injectors) to make sure all air is out?
An Ip has an internal volume of about 0.5l. If you bleed up to 200ml(which is very much according to the fuel line length) and multiplied with the amount of cylinders you are on a safe side that the ip is air free.
Time? The IP is designed to pump way more fuel than needed. that means the most fuel is running back to the tank.
So don't worry about time.
Squirt a bit of engine oil into each chamber before you crank. This helps to prevent damage to the absolute dry liners and increases combustion pressure and seal.(Hopefully you did this before starting to crank the engine.)
Not using an engine for a long time is a real killer. It has a reason why so called long term storage procedures are performed.
The IP and the injectors have closest tolerances in an engine. That means any corrosion has fatal effects. It mustn't be a total injector failure, but a changed or influenced spray pattern has huge side effects.
Moving rockers and valve stems are no indicators of a moving hydraulic tappet. It takes a while to fill them up again. Because you need a bunch of oil pressure to activate( to overcome spring pressure) and to refill them.
It has a reason why long storage engines are external primed before reactivating...
If the engine hasn't fired on any cylinder you still get no fuel or you still have a compression problem. Whats the average chamber pressure?
Some questions appear odd. If you want to bleed a line- where do you open it? At the beginning or at the the final end(injectors) to make sure all air is out?
An Ip has an internal volume of about 0.5l. If you bleed up to 200ml(which is very much according to the fuel line length) and multiplied with the amount of cylinders you are on a safe side that the ip is air free.
Time? The IP is designed to pump way more fuel than needed. that means the most fuel is running back to the tank.
So don't worry about time.
Last edited by Deezel Stink3r; 01-06-2011 at 10:02 PM.
#5
01-07-2011, 07:34 AM
no smoke, so your right about no fuel.
checked the injectors and they where in good condition.
i cranked the engine with 4 of the fuel-lines disconected from the injector so i could see if the IP suplied fuel. and it did not, some drops fell out of the lines but not more than that.
Is it possible that an IP (DB2 model) fails when an engine sits for 2 years despite it was put away running good?
Maybe the FSS rod keeps the pump shut due to wrong assemblage? (i do hear it click)
checked the injectors and they where in good condition.
i cranked the engine with 4 of the fuel-lines disconected from the injector so i could see if the IP suplied fuel. and it did not, some drops fell out of the lines but not more than that.
Is it possible that an IP (DB2 model) fails when an engine sits for 2 years despite it was put away running good?
Maybe the FSS rod keeps the pump shut due to wrong assemblage? (i do hear it click)
Last edited by Victor 7.3 IDI; 01-07-2011 at 07:36 AM.
#7
01-07-2011, 11:11 AM
#9
01-07-2011, 02:23 PM
done and still the same
how do i bleed the pump, maybe then it creates pressure.
---AutoMerged DoublePost---
by the way is there somewere a handpump to bleed everything.
batteries are quite flat and i need 2 cars for jumpstarting, its such a fuss
how do i bleed the pump, maybe then it creates pressure.
---AutoMerged DoublePost---
by the way is there somewere a handpump to bleed everything.
batteries are quite flat and i need 2 cars for jumpstarting, its such a fuss
Last edited by Victor 7.3 IDI; 01-07-2011 at 02:23 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
#10
01-07-2011, 02:40 PM
Oh, thats not good.
The pump itself is kinda selfbleeding.
Do me a favour.
Get a hose and attach it diretly onto the fuel pump entry and supply fuel from a plastic 1.5L Coca Cola or water bottle.
It sounds to me like a miracle. I (and you too!)have to know if the IP sucks in fuel.
A handpump is usually built in into the fuel filter, if not you can attach an aftermarket unit made by Bosch or Hengst, they are cheap and reliable.
Stop everything and recharge the batteries- they can't stand deep discharge. You have to recharge them real quick or they get damaged.
One last question? did you open the IP? Hopefully not.
The pump itself is kinda selfbleeding.
Do me a favour.
Get a hose and attach it diretly onto the fuel pump entry and supply fuel from a plastic 1.5L Coca Cola or water bottle.
It sounds to me like a miracle. I (and you too!)have to know if the IP sucks in fuel.
A handpump is usually built in into the fuel filter, if not you can attach an aftermarket unit made by Bosch or Hengst, they are cheap and reliable.
Stop everything and recharge the batteries- they can't stand deep discharge. You have to recharge them real quick or they get damaged.
One last question? did you open the IP? Hopefully not.
