Clean Diesel: For College Speech Class
#12
10-02-2009, 04:52 PM
Diesel Bomber
Put another way SCR is requirement and adBlue or Urea injection is the method. Super EGR is another (in cylinder EGR - too dangerous if you ask me) and the DPF is another method.
Following the recent talks they are looking at coating DPF replacement filters with urea so as to reduce the cost of the system and make the maintenance simpler and cheaper too.
Interesting times, really if you think about it.
Following the recent talks they are looking at coating DPF replacement filters with urea so as to reduce the cost of the system and make the maintenance simpler and cheaper too.
Interesting times, really if you think about it.
#13
10-02-2009, 08:39 PM
Diesel Bomber
Put another way SCR is requirement and adBlue or Urea injection is the method. Super EGR is another (in cylinder EGR - too dangerous if you ask me) and the DPF is another method.
Following the recent talks they are looking at coating DPF replacement filters with urea so as to reduce the cost of the system and make the maintenance simpler and cheaper too.
Interesting times, really if you think about it.
Following the recent talks they are looking at coating DPF replacement filters with urea so as to reduce the cost of the system and make the maintenance simpler and cheaper too.
Interesting times, really if you think about it.
they come up with some sort of theory and test it; if it semi-works they put it into production and perfect it later... cant really bash on it tho; with-out trial and error we wouldn't be anywhere close to where we are today with technology... but you'd think some things they'd try a little more trial than error 
i'm very intrigued with this super EGR concept, any more information you might to able to give me?---AutoMerged DoublePost---
i read at some point in time that they wanted to super heat the intake air prior to compression... was never able to find it again so i'm pretty sure it was a crock... doesnt make much sense to me
Last edited by tower_ofpower; 10-02-2009 at 08:39 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
#14
10-03-2009, 11:26 AM
Diesel Bomber
I strongly disagree with that. One might say that the engineers don't have a clue but in actually they are only doing what they need to do to pass for sales numbers. The full SCR system that will be on the Tier 3 truck (2010 and 2011) will be the same thing that Cummins has used in Europe for nearly 10 years. This system has over 1 billion kilometres of mule test cell and real world conditions that make it favorable to what the Tier 3 requirements are in North America.
All of this won't get the same mileage as a 12V truck but it will be far better than anything from 2004 and newer.
As for the Super EGR plans this is Navistar and now Ford's (in house motor) SCR system they have come up with and are planning on using. Everyone else, Dodge, GMC, FL, Detroit, MAK and now even CAT for their non-otr equipment is using or developing SCR with urea injection. My money says that from what I read about the Super EGR it will not work. Based on the internal temperatures required to get it to function the in-cylinder temps would be far too high for me to be comfortable with it. I think in theory it might be good because it eliminates a lot of complication and simple is usually better but super hot is not something I would want.
If you would like to make your own educated decisions look at dieselnet.com and dieselprogress.com and search google for Super EGR or in cylinder EGR (same thing).
Cheers.
All of this won't get the same mileage as a 12V truck but it will be far better than anything from 2004 and newer.
As for the Super EGR plans this is Navistar and now Ford's (in house motor) SCR system they have come up with and are planning on using. Everyone else, Dodge, GMC, FL, Detroit, MAK and now even CAT for their non-otr equipment is using or developing SCR with urea injection. My money says that from what I read about the Super EGR it will not work. Based on the internal temperatures required to get it to function the in-cylinder temps would be far too high for me to be comfortable with it. I think in theory it might be good because it eliminates a lot of complication and simple is usually better but super hot is not something I would want.
If you would like to make your own educated decisions look at dieselnet.com and dieselprogress.com and search google for Super EGR or in cylinder EGR (same thing).
Cheers.
#15
10-05-2009, 02:25 AM
Same question, by the same OP, was posted over on Diesel Power Mag's forums.
I told him the same thing you guys are telling him.
Kid, please do some research and write your own paper. The info is out there, especially on the European sites (Audi, VW, MB, BMW, etc.) and you'll need to use those references as an addendum to your report so you can back the claims up with real world data.
Just start using Google and Wikipedia. The stuff you need is out there but you will still need to do your own work.
Kris
I told him the same thing you guys are telling him.
Kid, please do some research and write your own paper. The info is out there, especially on the European sites (Audi, VW, MB, BMW, etc.) and you'll need to use those references as an addendum to your report so you can back the claims up with real world data.
Just start using Google and Wikipedia. The stuff you need is out there but you will still need to do your own work.
Kris
#17
10-05-2009, 12:25 PM
I'm not asking for anyone to do any research for me or anythin of that nature. All I was askin was for some personal opinions about Clean Diesel Tech. I'm doin the research, believe me, and it's a b!tch gettin it into terms easy enough to understand. I'm glad yall're givin me extra info an all, but I'm not askin anyone to write the thing for me. I'm just wonderin what yall think about it, that's all.
---AutoMerged DoublePost---
Plus, Wikipedia's not very reliable, so I'm not able to use it for a source. Straight outta the teachers mouth, NO WIKIPEDIA!
---AutoMerged DoublePost---
Plus, Wikipedia's not very reliable, so I'm not able to use it for a source. Straight outta the teachers mouth, NO WIKIPEDIA!
Last edited by aguilar_15; 10-05-2009 at 12:53 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
#19
10-05-2009, 01:40 PM
I disagree, I will look at Wiki to at least get ideas!! Sometimes you find something to investigate. You guys are right though about not trusting it!
Good job on doing your own research for this. It is good to get others ideas or feelings; but, usually people put their own 'spin' on everything and that can (and usually does!) affect reality.
You want our ideas or feelings on the new emissions... Wow, where to start. I guess I feel like current diesel emissions are like what we had for gassers in the '80s. To me it seemed like 'they' really didn't know what they were doing and it took a while to work out the bugs to get the performance / economy out of them. I could be wrong; but, it just seems like we haven't made any efficiency gains in the last 20 years. Course you could also look at the fact that we have much better performance out of current production rigs than we used to at about the same economy numbers. As a society we really have been driven by performance (The wanting of more performance all the time!). As we all loose our jobs and move to lower paying jobs and the cost of just surviving keeps going higher, I guess we will all be looking for more economy. I kind of see that as the trend anyway. I have been cut back at work (Read: Lower pay!) and have lots of friends that are simply out of work. Finally after weeks of saying that the recession is over, now the government is admitting that the unemployment numbers are going to continue to rise.....
I didn't say all of this to 'Hi-Jack' your thread. I think this plays a part in all of this. It does affect our society. If we all have more then we want more (What I mean: If we can afford more then we want more performance and don't care about economy!) but if we all have less then we concentrate on higher economy.
I have lots more to say but I will quit here. If you want, I would be glad to give you a call on my dime. Just PM me a number and a good time to call you and I will!!
Dan
Good job on doing your own research for this. It is good to get others ideas or feelings; but, usually people put their own 'spin' on everything and that can (and usually does!) affect reality.
You want our ideas or feelings on the new emissions... Wow, where to start. I guess I feel like current diesel emissions are like what we had for gassers in the '80s. To me it seemed like 'they' really didn't know what they were doing and it took a while to work out the bugs to get the performance / economy out of them. I could be wrong; but, it just seems like we haven't made any efficiency gains in the last 20 years. Course you could also look at the fact that we have much better performance out of current production rigs than we used to at about the same economy numbers. As a society we really have been driven by performance (The wanting of more performance all the time!). As we all loose our jobs and move to lower paying jobs and the cost of just surviving keeps going higher, I guess we will all be looking for more economy. I kind of see that as the trend anyway. I have been cut back at work (Read: Lower pay!) and have lots of friends that are simply out of work. Finally after weeks of saying that the recession is over, now the government is admitting that the unemployment numbers are going to continue to rise.....
I didn't say all of this to 'Hi-Jack' your thread. I think this plays a part in all of this. It does affect our society. If we all have more then we want more (What I mean: If we can afford more then we want more performance and don't care about economy!) but if we all have less then we concentrate on higher economy.
I have lots more to say but I will quit here. If you want, I would be glad to give you a call on my dime. Just PM me a number and a good time to call you and I will!!
Dan
#20
10-05-2009, 02:37 PM
Diesel Bomber
Dan,
But our kid du jour writing the paper wasn't born in the 80's and probably doesn't know what you mean? LOL... Sorry but it had to be said.
On another matter, performance and economy is the only thing you can get out of diesel - hence why the number of oil burners world wide is so high. (FYI: 55% of all new cars and trucks in the EU are sold as diesel). North America has had its love affair with the big block for far too long. It's long over due for that dinosaurs to go. Of course, my opinion.
But our kid du jour writing the paper wasn't born in the 80's and probably doesn't know what you mean? LOL... Sorry but it had to be said.
On another matter, performance and economy is the only thing you can get out of diesel - hence why the number of oil burners world wide is so high. (FYI: 55% of all new cars and trucks in the EU are sold as diesel). North America has had its love affair with the big block for far too long. It's long over due for that dinosaurs to go. Of course, my opinion.
