77 DODGE W200-'97 CUMMINS 12V bta-'59 SUMB CHASSIS/TRANS/AXLES
 

hello all,
just starting the tech work on my latest build,i have a unimog type truck,a UNIFROG- its the SUMB-the stock v8 flattie went into a hot rod,the chassis is pretty clean and features portal axles,shrouded props,coils,and a pto driven winch.
because im converting from gas to derv,from cab over to bonneted i have a lot work in front.
i have the cab from w200 dodgemounted as the first job, as it looks way better than the tiny and ugly SUMB cab
i have had a clutch plate made [ford cargo] with a 13 inch sintered friction.
now im looking for advice on the next steps,im guessing i will have to remove the stockbell housing and offer the trans up,this will tell me the differences in throw bearing movement along the sleeve,and how far the trans needs to sit to get the clutch to actuate.
because i cannot find a single piece of info on the trans i will have ask for general advice,although i wondered if there was a good resource for finding bellhousing to trans bolt patterns.i will get some pictures when it stops raining.:argh:

ok,here,s the FUGLY truck i started out with-google image 'sumb' we call em UNIFROGS- there great trucks just so FUGLY

once i,d bullied all the junk and no need for stuff off it i was left with this-lovely straight chassis rails [easy to move stuff about]-portalaxles-shrouded props-coil suspention-2.5tonne pto driven winch riding on 20,s

after around 3 days of stripping the truckdown,i was ready to mount my ex USAF w200 truck cab,luckily it fitted right over the stock trans,but i knew i was going to have to move the trans anyhow as the cummins motor was way longer than the v8 we pulled out.
so after all this ripping parts off my truck it felt good to start putting the cab on and fabricating mounting brackets.

i just used a bunch of 2x1, 4x2 & 4x4 timbers and some bottle jacks and giant prybars to get the cab to sit where it had to and a few magnetic inclinometers helped me out with getting everything on the same level and such.

i disconnected the lever dampers that control the suspention,and cycled it full up and down using ratchet straps,this positioning will allow me bigger tyres [on smaller wheels] as and when they come up at the right money

well last few pics for a while,here,s the donk-runs sweet,not too smoky on fire up,no blue,white oR black smoke when nailed and no oil in the water when i drained it after a good run up-so i hope its a good one!

the truck cab has been mounted on 100x100 box section mid cab and a tee frame in `100x30 supports the rear of the cab,it sits on the stock rubber doughnuts new from factory.

i will decide on mounting the front wings,aftercooler,and radiator after i get the trans married up to the motor.so far i know the 6bta has a sae 3 bell housing,and that nothing else fits,also that i need to move the trans back 42.25inches and mod both props to suit.i got a one off clutch friction made for ok money and am now in the measuring stages.........................
you know, where you just cant leave the house without a fist full of measuring gear,in case you see summat that might JUST DO :tttt: IT

Like all conversions a person never has enough parts, good luck with the build.

If you were a weeee bit closer you could score some great parts from me, but your a tadd bit far away!

:c::c::c:

Wow - kudos on one very ambitious, unique conversion!

Kelly,
I noticed that you had the Dodge cab sitting on top of a Humber PIG, is that your vehicle as well? Is that an APO Station sign on the back of your house?

I would think that Unimog didn't use an SAE bolt pattern, but I'm not positive on that.

I surf this site for ideas and the guys a full of information. Mercedes [Archive] - Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board

Please keep posting pictures of the progress on this truck. :c:

Neat project, keep the pics coming :c:

I'm soooooooooooooooooo jealous right now...:dang: Sweet project! :tu:

well,the problem with the next stage is getting the motor and trans hooked up and having the thrust working in the right plane,there,s a lot of measuring in front.
whilst pondering i typed in 'pilot bearing' on you tube,in the past this site has helped me out with a few ideas.
i love this guys videos anyhow,so to find one one that was dictly what i needed was a boost-

my version will be different in that it will have an extra bearing,so the piolot bearing housing i make will spin inside the existing bearing-rpeeks version on youtube relies on an interference fit of alu to the end of the crank-
mine will sit in the caged ball bearing in the flywheel and the gearbox input shaft snout will sit into the oilite/phos/bronze bearing in the carrier.

so far this seems to be the best soloution,then i have the bellhousing issues and the thrust actuation matters to get round.:rocking:

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ah,just needed to re-try latest pictures:c:

P.J.
Haven't seen any new pictures for a while.......are you on holiday? :c:

hi bert,
i lost my kid brotther,he was 42.just been trying to get it together.
did some on the truck,got some pictures but im away for a week welding up our 2 wheel bonneville racer on the south coast,as soon as i get the chance im on it.found a bell that might do the job,just have to locate one that is not on a friends truck!

P.J.
WOW...sorry to hear about your kid brother passing, life takes allot of weird twists. Prayers out to you and your family.

Snap a picture of the two wheel racer your welding up.

well got home and straight back to the truck,it,s real rainy and soggy here in england right now,so i got on the lathe and made a few pieces,im going for the phosphor bronze bush held in a ally adaptor that mounts into the pilot bearing which mounts in the flywheel.
i have to get the motor in my workshop first,which will involve moving some old motorcycles,the indian chief will go in the house,the other piece in the picture is the new steering shaft,i have held off on the TIG welder until i had a load of jobs in front of me,so i have the incredibly rusty wings,front clip,the new steering shaft,and they will be going on the welding bench early week.

:humm: If you need extra room I can arrange storage in my shop for the Indian Chief, I'll pay for the shipping. :w2:

that,s what i love about this place,fullopf friendly folk ready to helpout at a moments notice.
:rocking:
busy selling a lot stuff at the moment making space and getting a few bucks put by to aid the hummin cummins cause-stay tuned,as i have sourced me a bell housing from an early military daf truck that may be the answer to my prayers.:argh:

I cant wait to see the final product here.

getting it progressed,stopped nailling the whiskey and got my eyesight in order-so the 6bta motor is indoors-i can measure it all,drink beer and listen to the ramones without getting wet-pure luxury.
here i have the pressure plate from the cummins suspended in thew right place

in this picture we can see how much room is needed for the thrust bearing and the clutch release fork,it looks to be a close thing,but do-able,it seems the aluminium adapter i roughed out while i WAS waiting for space to work in wont be needed-ah well,all good practice.
talking of waiting i aint so great at waiting for things,so after a quick measure up i decide that i am going to make my own bell housing to mate the motor to the transmission,i,m lucky in that i have TIG so i can weld the ally,also in that the starter motor is mounted in the engine bell-sweet.

so having found a bell that may do the job,the guy came back with a price-£150!! thats $230!!-for something im going to have to cut and modify anyway-forget about it!!

this gave the opportunity to use one of new favourite powertools-the MILWAUKEE SAWZALL.

marked the bell housing out on my surface plate using the vernier and the upright scriber-marked the cut a few mil above where we need to be so as i can finnish up the face on the lathe in the 4-jaw

:bat:
after the sawzall had chewed its way through the bellhousing from the ford mercury box,i set the 4 jaw indy up in my lathe,this way i can be sure of having a face that is on the same plane as the mounting face that fixes the bell to the transmission.

sounds a bit OTT-but it means that all the struts i weld on to join the cut bell to the SAE plate [still got to make this]-will be identical.

i have incorporated two requirements in my desighn for the new bell,it has to:

1/ be removeable from either end.

2/ be strong enough to support and hold fast the entire weight of the trans.

it will be strong!:tu:

PJ,
Looks like your making some good progress but the fingers of the pressure plate look way too close right now. How much will they draw down when its bolted to the flywheel?

hi bert,
just getting stuff welded up,aim to work out the flywheel/friction/pressure plate interface asap.
trying to control my excitement,because as soon as this eng/trans is joined together i can get it on some level ground and offer it up to the chassis,releasing a host of other jobs i can get on with.im guessing i may have to cut the firewall-which is a concern as it,s the only really structually sound part of this rusted out old cab,a roll cage won,t be a problem as a friend has a PRO hot rod shop,and he is on side,ideally i will source another cab one day. but this will get me where i want to be for now.:humm:

Alright PJ, It's been two weeks, did you get the trans and engine to mate up? I'm curious to know if the spacing worked out on the clutch fork. :c:

bert,without your enthusiasm i would miss out on getting this thread updated,which would be a shame as it,s a good log of how much work goes into these types of build,so thanks!

tonite i had some help from grant,we spent a good few hours lifting and shimming the motor so that it sits level in the crankshaft plane,then i adjusted the trans to sit at the right height,in a couple of days i will be back and able to bolt the clutch pack complete to the flywheel,then i aim at pushing the trans up as close as it will go into the clutch/pressure plate until it just touches,then back it off .5-1.00mm then i will measure the distance between the machined edge of the bell and the motor bell.this will = A

then i guess i,ll remove the clutch pack , install the [frozen] pilot bearing in the flywheel,and reset the trans to suit A

this will enable me to get the dimentions to finnish the lathe work on the phosphor bronze adapter...i think this will work-any more experienced hands have anything to add ?

pictures early next week-have a great weekend:rocking:

PJ, I don't mean to push but I really enjoy seeing Military trucks getting rebuilt and or modified.
This gives me incentive to continue working on my M37 because my wife claims that I pay more attention to that old truck than I do her. She calls it my "Mistress" :c:

my mate,s ol \lady is known as the green widow-any pictures of the m37 ?-i,m a huge mopar dodge fan.
well im all booked in to go \to my buddy,s welding and fab business round the corner on nov 20th,i will take my motor,some beers and my trans down there sat morning,he will let me loose with his plasma cutter,so i can cut the circular flange out to bolt to the motor bellhousing.
i will have the phosphor bronze adapter turned up , this will sit the transmission where it needs to be away from the cummins engine.
then we,ll weld some aluminium spars in place.
after this has all cooled i will check the distances on the 4 datum points i have marked on the engine and the trans,sounds a bit OTT but this is my first time doing this,so im covering all angles.
providing all the measures come out equal,we will finnish weld and then wrap some aluminium sheet around the whole mess and that will do me for a homemade bell housing.
all this will involve some seroius lifting and shifting,all good practice for the next project-
a v6 detroit turbo-mmmmmmmmm came outta m548-gods own pick up truck,i had near 65mph out of mine.

anyhow-here is my cut trans bell mounted up on the trans,the fully assebled clutch pack is bolted up tight and the splined shaft is as far into the flywheel as it will go-

next job was to shim the trans back from the rotating mass of the clutch/flywheel-so i got some 3.00mm shims and got everything sat about right-it was important to be able check everything was level so i centre drilled 4 m10 bolts [ the 6bta is metric] and placed them equally around the engine bellhousing,this gave me \4 points to measure from-[ datum ]
i cleaned the grease off the motor and trans and used a paint pen to mark roughly where my datums were,after it dried i used a black sharpie to fine tune the marks.
lastly i got a small ratchet strap to hold the whole mess together for a final check.

here,s a better shot showing how the shims are spread evenly and the strap is holding it all in place ready for a last check-
you can just see the cetre drilled bolt head and the yellow datum mark-this enabled me to pull the clutch pack and trans bell housing off,giving me enough room to measure the distance the transmission input shaft needs to sit away from the pilot bearing,using the datums i replace the trans minus the bellhousing ,exactly where it was while fully assembled,i set all my datums at 150mm and marked them as above,i just set a pair of outside calipers to 150mm and it was easy to get it all lined up again.
now i \have this dimention i can get back on the lathe and finish turning up my adapter,but as luck would have it i went to put a fresh blade in my bansaw,and as i tensioned it,the sliding block that pulls the idler wheel op to tension the blade snapped-damn chinese cast iron-[saw was a gift]so tomorrow im down to ' b ert the button ' to borrow his milling machine to make a new one in billet steel-my milling machine is in final rebuild stages!!

Looks like your making good progress. Is there a reason why you didn't true up the trans off the bellhousing flange? Did you spin the flywheel/clutch assembly on the lathe to check for lateral runout on the pressure plate stamping?

You can see pictures of my M37 project if you go to my profile. :c: i don't want to clutter up your thread with my crap.

-went and saw your pictures,the HEMMTT and all the family are truly impressive pieces of kit,i was lucky to drive the scammell commander,and latterly got to walk over the osh kosh ,
so nice to see the m37,along with the wc series-some of dodge,s most fuctionasl looking trucks of all time-makes the modern stuff look,well,...puurrdy:ouch:
also good to see you dont have too much-if any rust,a major problem here in rainland.
today was wasted , kinda as most of it was spent repairing shoddy chinese cr*p,my whole life seems to be used repairing lovely OLD stuff or [be- grudginingly ] putting modern cr@p right.

PJ, Are you making any headway on this project? :pca1:

here is the finnished pilot bearing adaptor fitted in the pilot bearing and ready to accept the gearbox

her,s the next stage plasma cutting the engine bell housing flange from 1/2" dural plate.

here,s the flange drilled up and bolted in place,it fits snug.

here you can see how much space i have to fill up,we are going to use the left over plate from making the flange to weld up some bracing around the bell housing,when there is enough to support the weight of the transmission,i will cut some thinner aluminium sheet to seal the bell housing-then i can offer the engine/transmission combo up to the chassis and the bulk of the work will begin-
engine mounts
props x 2 to shorten
gearbox mounts
endless pipework and wiring......:bat:

Do you have enough spline engagement for the clutch disc? This may just be an optical illusion from the camera angle but it looks like it has come up short. :humm:

hey bert,
you must have done plenty of these type of conversions,you dont miss a trick!:c:
the clutch plate only engages around 19mm,not enough to take serious abuse,so i am cutting up an old clutch centre from a 40,s v8 ford flattie,and machining this,then sliding the clutch and the cut centre over the shaft i will tack weld it up and then tig the whole lot,will final true and balance in the lathe.the thrust looks to have plenty of room .
you were right about the runout on the stamped pressure plate-8mm difference in height,i may ask on the forum about a 'trick' pressure plate set up-as some of these might sit lower in profile and give me even more clearance.

Nope, It was just a wild A$$ guess :w2: