I only get 1400 FPS from my GLOCK 22 with a BARSTO 357sig barrel, firing SPEER 125gr. TMJ !!! I'm not bad-mouthing the 357sig, But don't short change the 40 s&w, 10mm failed,cause after the BREN TEN died, the colt and other guns could not handle it's power, so the ammo makers drop the power of the 10mm from a 200gr. at 1200 FPS to a 200gr. at 1050. I have like 6 glocks, so I don't hate them, I think if I was in a deserted Island, I would want a glock, they don't rust, BUT I only carry guns with frame mounted safety, these guns are the safest & fastest guns into action, I would not like to have a glock with a bullet in the chamber, BUT I have NO worries with a 1911, high power, CZ 75 or 85 in ****-N-LOCK !!!

 

US military are the people I'm referencing. I also didn't say it's standard issue for the entire military.

what if someone can scoop underneath a golf ball about 5 times in a row, hitting every time it drops back onto the dirt, with a 40; or at a normal paced walk can make groupings touch...would that be considered a poor shot? I realize that's not the average shooter and definitely not me; but those people do exist and a lot of them really like the 40.


people from NC or FL is all I'm willing to say here. also FBI swat and a few city swat. those kind of people. sorry I used sf, I know it's a pretty generalized, overly used TV term. regardless, not the run-of-the-mill folk that trust their lives to the 40.

you brought up some interesting, valid points and I'm not trying to argue that you're flat wrong...just that a 40 may not be as bad as you're saying it is in light of some of the people that use it, that's all.

 

Ahh, but the 10mm failed due to being to big and powerful for medium/small hands & for a abusive recoil as the Bren Ten was nothing more than a flash in the pan & was never mass produced. Don't forget S&W had the 1006, Colt had the Delta Elite & later Glock. The Colt Delta Elite and the 1006 had absolutely no problem with the pressures produced by the full house 10mm ammo & neither do the Glocks, it's all about the amount of recoil/blast & how people can not or do not want to deal with that & train to over come it. However, for those with smaller hands yeppers the 10mm was just to big for em.

You had the 10mm FBI Lite that is about the standard all 10mm cartridges are loaded to today, due to the recoil/blast of full hose 10mm loads.

Then S&W came out with the 40 short and week to fill the perceived gap between 9mm and .45auto. It has replaced the 9mm and the 45 but it does not excel in any one area & does not surpass the 45 auto's 230gr JHP. However, for poor shooters it does have more than 7-9 rounds of ammo that the 1911 carries. But then again, how many times has a civilian (let alone a LEO) CCWing a handgun shot more than 7-9 rounds?????????

Don't forget that the 357 Sig is nothing more (actually 40S&W brass will not work, it's to short) than a necked down 40 short and weak with a 355 bullet driven at hyper velocities to fill another perceived gap

Ill never own a Glock 40tay they tend to shoot owners & go KaBooooom

As far as guns with frame mounted safety's and not carrying a Glock with a round in the chamber, it's a training issue as they are just as "fast" and just as safe as long as you use the grey matter between your ears instead of relying on a mechanical safety to do your thinking for you.

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Hummm, in 20 years of active duty as a USAF SP/SF troop with deployments all around the world & have worked with/around many high speed guys I've never seen or heard of the 40 S&W being deployed with active duty military.


Ya can do it with a .22 pistol, 9mm and anything else you train with. It's not about the caliber as much as it is the shooter.

Hummm, will have to shoot a few e-mails out to some friends in AFSOC since they are down in FL & ask if they have seen/heard of it being deployed via the military.

Lots of LEO's depend on it since what there department went with as a issue caliber for whatever reason. Sure it's a "good" caliber with a large following, but it's not for me as I do not see a need for it or to fill a gap between the 9mm and the .45. Heck, the 357 Sig is just as much of a niche caliber in it's own way and does not really do much more than the 9mm +P+ can with a good shooter.

Yeppers, I'll agree with ya and say the 40 is not "bad" but the 230gr JHP is better all the way around except in that the 40 has more cartridges in a magazine than ya get with the .45

 

There can't be no margin of error when dealing with guns, I ONLY carry a gun with a frame mounted safety, slide mounted safety are to small and slow you down. I only carry a gun with a bullet in the chamber. What works for me mite not work for you !!!!

 

just the coast guard, here in they u.s. we carry the sig p229 in 40. we still carry the old beretta 9mm overseas. ive shot both scored expert with both and would take the sig over the beretta any day.

 

Ahhh, the Coasties carry the 229 in 40 eh, well good on ya as the 229 is a superb handgun

I actually like the 92SF, it's a great handgun but a BIG one.

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It's a training/knowledge issue as there is never a margin of error when it comes to firearms safety.

However, any day of the week I'll bet ya my Colt series 80 1911 Govt will be "faster" than a frame mounted safety like the XD or Sig has. & Glocks are even "faster" since they do not have a external safety to manupliate. We (the USAF SP/SF) carry the 92SF with a cartridge in the chamber and the "safety"/decocker in the fire position & with hundreds of armed troops daily how many AD/ND's do you hear about? In 15 years of carrying the 92SF I have never heard of a AD/ND that was not due to operator error/playing with the gun.

However, it's all about training & knowledge/trust in your weapon of choice and ya know what, a handgun without a cartridge in the chamber is like packing a really expensive hammer in your pocket.

Bottom line is that "speed" is also a non issue when it comes to CCW, IF you ever have to use your weapon it's not about speed, but having the ability to put rounds on target causing the goblin to stop his actions that forced you to shoot. & if you spray and pray shooting "fast" then you loose in a court of law instead of taking your time and shooting quick.

 

the sig we carry has no safety of de-cocker

 

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This isn't my gun...I don't own a Delta Elite, Mr. Obama...in fact I don't own any guns at all, just check your database.

 

super, email away friend. and next time I go shooting with someone, I'll send you a picture of loading the s&w 40 into issued H&K, G- and XD sidearms. or perhaps you'd like to see some of the speared hollowpoints I don't have. of course, you're still free to and I'm sure still will disagree with me, that's fine.

I still hold to my original point that the XD is a good sidearm and the 40 isn't as utterly useless as you make it out to be. the 40 is a good all around size as it's a good balance of penetration, damage, exit wound size, recoil control and price. it's a good size for someone that wants to shoot a lot and carry something capable of stopping anyone with zero to light armor or drugs.

 

I have a 9mm for self defence, right now !!! Don't feel under powered, I have my reason for having the 9mm, BUT the 357sig, 40 s&w, 10mm, 357 mag, 45 acp, are all man-stopper, REMEMBER it's more important where you hit him, than the caliber you hit him !!!!