Building A Deck
#13
08-13-2008, 05:33 PM
Diesel Bomber
I've built several decks with my ex-brother in law. We found that several boroughs required different things (codes). Some didn't have a problem with the concrete blocks. Others required holes, x # of inches deep, etc. If it matters to you, check with your local authority. If not, the concrete blocks work great...
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Oilfield_Mafia (08-13-2008)
#14
08-13-2008, 05:55 PM
The wife and I.......ok mostly me, built our deck in our backyard a few years ago. Mine is a ground level one and concreted every post in. We used treated lumber all the way with deck boards for the top. They are a 1x6, but I suggest you use treated 2x to be stronger and less flexable. I screwed every board in, not one nail is in our deck.
Plan ahead, it takes a long time to do a project like this, it will not happen overnight.......like my wife thought it would
Plan ahead, it takes a long time to do a project like this, it will not happen overnight.......like my wife thought it would
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Oilfield_Mafia (08-13-2008)
#15
08-13-2008, 07:19 PM
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Oilfield_Mafia (08-13-2008)
#16
08-13-2008, 07:40 PM
Diesel Wrench
Your deck and everything around it has held up really well though.
#17
08-13-2008, 07:43 PM
Gee thanks for the kind words of encouragment.. lmao.. I guess Im gonna try to find someone to build the deck around the pool, and the tikihut/bar attached to the pool. and I will build the small part that goes to the back of the house..
#18
08-13-2008, 08:03 PM
Diesel Bomber
Largest deck I have ever built was at my place in Calgary. It was 800 square feet.
Being a structural guy and knowing a thing or about carpentry it was easy for me but could have been a challenge for some I'm sure.
Anyway, check with your local building code and permitting department on whether or not you need a permit or to have it engineered before you start. It is also a good idea to look at framing guidelines if you don't know what you are doing.
Here is the key - if the foundation isn't good, strong, level and plumb the entire project is going to be a problem. Check out the Fine Home Building Books for deck ideas - this is online and there are plenty to choose from.
Notwithstanding local bylaws and codes you are ok with the following:
8" diameter bell pile or sono-tube type concrete footing, no more than 12'-0" apart. These will have simpson strong tie (or eq.) galvanized post saddles wet dowelled or tied to a vertical piece of 15M or #4 rebar. The depth of the pile footing is dependant on frost so in some places that can be as deep as 8'-0".
Next, posts. These will generally be 4x4 PT or Douglas Fir timber. The straighter the better. Brace with scrap 2x4. Anchor with spikes or carrige bolts to the saddles below.
Next, the beams and ledger boards. These should be at least 2x10 but 2x12 works better. They are good to span between the max span of the posts you just installed on footings. I would consider 2, 2x12 D FIR #2 or better joists ganged (nailed) together (again with spikes) the only beam. Depending on the load of the deck above - ie if you want a hot tube on it you will need as many as 10 individual 4, 2x12 beams to support that weight but if you want to do that your footings are much larger and you had best get a structural engineer to sort this one out for you.
Regardless, you now fasten the ledger (again 2x12) to the house with the applicable approved method of fastening. Some will use peel and stick in between to keep the water out while others will make their deck free standing. I like them free standing - less trouble in the future. Lag bolts into beams are the only way to go here.
Now, its time for the joist hangers. Space these no more than 16" on centre and consider that a 2x6 joist is only good to span about 6'-0". A 2x8 is about 7'-0", a 2x10 is about 8'-6" and a 2x12 is good for just about 10'-0" of clear span. Again, check your local codes.
After this is all sorted you have your choice of railing, deck boards and stairs. Stairs should be designed to your local building code - generally a 7" rise and a 11" run is acceptable. A trick there is to keep the 2 numbers equal to 18. Don't ask me why it just works. (7+11 = 18)
Railings on stairs should be no less than 3'-0" high. And handrails should be no less than 42" above the finished standing surface. Again, check your code.
Decking or deck boards can be just about anything. I like to use rounded or dressed 2x6 material. This is 1.5" thick where the alternative 5/4 boards are 1.25" thick. Thicker is better.
Fastening these can be done from on top or underneathe or any version in between. Using a deck screw (yes a special fastener) is a great idea. Nails tend to pop up and boards will warp and or twist making all sorts of mess.
If you have any questions shoot me a note. Glad to help.
Being a structural guy and knowing a thing or about carpentry it was easy for me but could have been a challenge for some I'm sure.
Anyway, check with your local building code and permitting department on whether or not you need a permit or to have it engineered before you start. It is also a good idea to look at framing guidelines if you don't know what you are doing.
Here is the key - if the foundation isn't good, strong, level and plumb the entire project is going to be a problem. Check out the Fine Home Building Books for deck ideas - this is online and there are plenty to choose from.
Notwithstanding local bylaws and codes you are ok with the following:
8" diameter bell pile or sono-tube type concrete footing, no more than 12'-0" apart. These will have simpson strong tie (or eq.) galvanized post saddles wet dowelled or tied to a vertical piece of 15M or #4 rebar. The depth of the pile footing is dependant on frost so in some places that can be as deep as 8'-0".
Next, posts. These will generally be 4x4 PT or Douglas Fir timber. The straighter the better. Brace with scrap 2x4. Anchor with spikes or carrige bolts to the saddles below.
Next, the beams and ledger boards. These should be at least 2x10 but 2x12 works better. They are good to span between the max span of the posts you just installed on footings. I would consider 2, 2x12 D FIR #2 or better joists ganged (nailed) together (again with spikes) the only beam. Depending on the load of the deck above - ie if you want a hot tube on it you will need as many as 10 individual 4, 2x12 beams to support that weight but if you want to do that your footings are much larger and you had best get a structural engineer to sort this one out for you.
Regardless, you now fasten the ledger (again 2x12) to the house with the applicable approved method of fastening. Some will use peel and stick in between to keep the water out while others will make their deck free standing. I like them free standing - less trouble in the future. Lag bolts into beams are the only way to go here.
Now, its time for the joist hangers. Space these no more than 16" on centre and consider that a 2x6 joist is only good to span about 6'-0". A 2x8 is about 7'-0", a 2x10 is about 8'-6" and a 2x12 is good for just about 10'-0" of clear span. Again, check your local codes.
After this is all sorted you have your choice of railing, deck boards and stairs. Stairs should be designed to your local building code - generally a 7" rise and a 11" run is acceptable. A trick there is to keep the 2 numbers equal to 18. Don't ask me why it just works. (7+11 = 18)
Railings on stairs should be no less than 3'-0" high. And handrails should be no less than 42" above the finished standing surface. Again, check your code.
Decking or deck boards can be just about anything. I like to use rounded or dressed 2x6 material. This is 1.5" thick where the alternative 5/4 boards are 1.25" thick. Thicker is better.
Fastening these can be done from on top or underneathe or any version in between. Using a deck screw (yes a special fastener) is a great idea. Nails tend to pop up and boards will warp and or twist making all sorts of mess.
If you have any questions shoot me a note. Glad to help.
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Oilfield_Mafia (08-13-2008)
#19
08-25-2008, 04:10 AM
ill throw my two cents in here since this is what i do for a living when im not turning wrenches.....
1ST OFF COMPOSITE DECK IS JUNK AND I WILL NEVER USE IT AGAIN.......MATTER OF FACT YOU COULDNT GIVE ME THE STUFF FOR FREE.......
now that thats out of the way.....i build custom decks to suit.....multi layer, enclosed, screened, windows, flat, wrap arounds, seats, planters, inlaid tile, pool decks, you name it ive done it.......put the posts in concrete in the ground.......those concrete pyramids are a joke and let the deck warp ALOT......especially in a place like florida where you get wet and hot extremes in the same day.......i use 3 inch ring shank nails and shoot them in with a pneumatic gun.......they do not come out......i know this because i can hang all 330 pounds of my weight on one nail and they will not pull out.......i charge about 300 more dollars to screw a deck down instead of shooting it down.......lay your boards tight together with no gap and shoot it down......that is easiest done with two people......the gap will take care of itself cause the boards will shrink a little and will be perfect.......do your runner space 16 inches on center and make sure you sink some posts in the center in concrete to keep from getting that "squishy" feeling and it helps stop alot of squeaks.....the whole frame underneath should be 2x8, 2x10, or 2x12 depending on the span your running........
1ST OFF COMPOSITE DECK IS JUNK AND I WILL NEVER USE IT AGAIN.......MATTER OF FACT YOU COULDNT GIVE ME THE STUFF FOR FREE.......
now that thats out of the way.....i build custom decks to suit.....multi layer, enclosed, screened, windows, flat, wrap arounds, seats, planters, inlaid tile, pool decks, you name it ive done it.......put the posts in concrete in the ground.......those concrete pyramids are a joke and let the deck warp ALOT......especially in a place like florida where you get wet and hot extremes in the same day.......i use 3 inch ring shank nails and shoot them in with a pneumatic gun.......they do not come out......i know this because i can hang all 330 pounds of my weight on one nail and they will not pull out.......i charge about 300 more dollars to screw a deck down instead of shooting it down.......lay your boards tight together with no gap and shoot it down......that is easiest done with two people......the gap will take care of itself cause the boards will shrink a little and will be perfect.......do your runner space 16 inches on center and make sure you sink some posts in the center in concrete to keep from getting that "squishy" feeling and it helps stop alot of squeaks.....the whole frame underneath should be 2x8, 2x10, or 2x12 depending on the span your running........
#20
08-25-2008, 10:00 AM
Diesel Bomber
Logan,
A ring shank nail might work good in FL but generally around colder climates they don't work well in finished carpentry conditions. I use my 3.25" stick nailer (Bostich) and that works great for all the framing and structure below. I use deck screws on all boards that you will touch with your feet and lag and carriage bolts everywhere that a nail can't do the job.
I think it really depends on the area you live and what the codes say. My decks never fall down and some might consider them over kill but I look at it this way spend a little more money now to do it right or a hole bunch more to do it again.
The reason on the west coast "wet" coast we would space the deck boards out is to allow for both swelling and shrinkage. This is done with a 1/8" spacer board and a bar clamp to pull the boards to each other. Again, here the devil is in the details as if the first deck board isn't straight the rest will not be either and that will look very strange.
I think regardless of where you build the requirement for a good foundation is key. I too completely disregard those blocks unless it is some sort of renovation. The reason is that the ground typically swells with water or frost and settles uneven when the temperature warms up or the rain stops falling. Having a reall fonudation will keep your hard work from becoming a real cluster and will allow for many years of real enjoyment.
Choosing the right material for the job is also key. I use pressure treated material and the correct fasteners for that treatment or cedar - nothing else. The use of kiln dried material is ok but you must understand that as the weather sees this it will degrade quickly. The same goes for that synthetic junk (you can't give it to me either, Logan) - plastic doesn't belong on a deck. Anywhere. Galvanized, stainless, the right wood (Cedar, Redwood, Mahogany, EPAY and a couple others) are the only real woods to use. PT works good in a crunch but can be problematic is really wet or really dry areas.
Anyway, like I said, if anyone has any questions just post 'em up.
Cheers.
A ring shank nail might work good in FL but generally around colder climates they don't work well in finished carpentry conditions. I use my 3.25" stick nailer (Bostich) and that works great for all the framing and structure below. I use deck screws on all boards that you will touch with your feet and lag and carriage bolts everywhere that a nail can't do the job.
I think it really depends on the area you live and what the codes say. My decks never fall down and some might consider them over kill but I look at it this way spend a little more money now to do it right or a hole bunch more to do it again.
The reason on the west coast "wet" coast we would space the deck boards out is to allow for both swelling and shrinkage. This is done with a 1/8" spacer board and a bar clamp to pull the boards to each other. Again, here the devil is in the details as if the first deck board isn't straight the rest will not be either and that will look very strange.
I think regardless of where you build the requirement for a good foundation is key. I too completely disregard those blocks unless it is some sort of renovation. The reason is that the ground typically swells with water or frost and settles uneven when the temperature warms up or the rain stops falling. Having a reall fonudation will keep your hard work from becoming a real cluster and will allow for many years of real enjoyment.
Choosing the right material for the job is also key. I use pressure treated material and the correct fasteners for that treatment or cedar - nothing else. The use of kiln dried material is ok but you must understand that as the weather sees this it will degrade quickly. The same goes for that synthetic junk (you can't give it to me either, Logan) - plastic doesn't belong on a deck. Anywhere. Galvanized, stainless, the right wood (Cedar, Redwood, Mahogany, EPAY and a couple others) are the only real woods to use. PT works good in a crunch but can be problematic is really wet or really dry areas.
Anyway, like I said, if anyone has any questions just post 'em up.
Cheers.
