24 Valve 2nd Gen Dodge Cummins 98.5-02 Discussion of 24 Valve 5.9 Liter Dodge Cummins Diesels with VP44 Injection Pumps
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245 hp 01 misfire cylinder new pump new injector good compression

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  #41  
Old 03-16-2014, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by lilmike1540
Just want to make sure you did check the clocking pin on the vp shaft to make sure 100% that it is lined up with the gear ...there is only so many options that could cause this problem if it aint your powertrain ...can you get your hands on another pump to see what happens even a used one maybe just for testing ??? You seem to have tested everything that doesnt require lots of $$$ to test with the exception of testing the vp with your OWN eyes they may have sent you a bad pump and told you it was good cause they already made there money didnt want to make it easy on you ...it happens just my opinion...
They said $145 for a swap on pumps. I have checked the gear multiple times and used a fiber optic when aligning for install. I have no clue now so just going to wait and see what the diagnostics book says.

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And what about too much fuel in chamber, i assume that would be the ip problem. But how and is there anything else to check for it.
 

Last edited by davidthomas; 03-16-2014 at 05:47 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #42  
Old 03-16-2014, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by davidthomas
They said $145 for a swap on pumps. I have checked the gear multiple times and used a fiber optic when aligning for install. I have no clue now so just going to wait and see what the diagnostics book says.

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And what about too much fuel in chamber, i assume that would be the ip problem. But how and is there anything else to check for it.
I can copy and paste the entire powertrain diagnostic section and it really won't say anything more than what's been said here already. I can give you a flow chart but you've already eliminated a good bit of its troubleshooting ability. The last thing you could do is use a manometer to check blow by. But typically with that high of compression across the board blow by won't be that high. It could be atomization likely an injector problem (you say you've eliminated this), or it could be a timing issue which injects fuel at the wrong time. The only other real reason for to much fuel would be blocked return system which typically causes a leak at the connector tubes or pushes fuel into the crankcase. The other option is your not getting enough fuel for a complete burn. You could try a leak down test and see if any air escapes the cylinder but i doubt you'll find much of anything with good compression numbers. I think I'd go the cheapest route first. To much fuel in the cylinder alone won't cause a dead miss, you'd have to be missing one of the other pieces of the puzzle. You could stand alone the pump, but I doubt you'll see any changes.
Unless there's something that's not documented here I'm keeping my guess on the pump. How'd the truck run when it was parked? Didn't try and start it at all while parked? Are you positive it's cylinder 1? What happens when you perform the kill test? Is there a slight change or no change at all in sound and rpm? What rpm are you doing the kill test at? Regardless if it were in my shop, I'd be throwing another pump on it just for confirmation - cheapest and easiest solution and the only way you'll diagnose a pump issue at home.
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Last edited by mysterync; 03-16-2014 at 07:06 AM.
  #43  
Old 03-16-2014, 10:40 PM
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Ok the return line is a possibility. I had to run new 3/8 hoses to the pump and back since the old fass pump was bad and the hoses sat for so long the cracked. I just put the return back on one of the fittings on top of tank. Will check. And 100% sure it's #1. I started cold and used laser thermometer and exhaust manifold was 80 degrees on each cylinder except #1 which was 32. And injector kill test it doesnt change the idle unlike cracking the other lines open where it will. I don't have another 2nd gen to swap ip and test so it would be 145 or to talk the company in to it. I will check the return tommorow night and disconnect and flow into a gas can and see if that helps.

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Also it wouldn't start when parked. The ip went out due to bad fuel pressure ruining the diaphragm.
 

Last edited by davidthomas; 03-16-2014 at 10:40 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
  #44  
Old 03-17-2014, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by davidthomas
Ok the return line is a possibility. I had to run new 3/8 hoses to the pump and back since the old fass pump was bad and the hoses sat for so long the cracked. I just put the return back on one of the fittings on top of tank. Will check. And 100% sure it's #1. I started cold and used laser thermometer and exhaust manifold was 80 degrees on each cylinder except #1 which was 32. And injector kill test it doesnt change the idle unlike cracking the other lines open where it will. I don't have another 2nd gen to swap ip and test so it would be 145 or to talk the company in to it. I will check the return tommorow night and disconnect and flow into a gas can and see if that helps.

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Also it wouldn't start when parked. The ip went out due to bad fuel pressure ruining the diaphragm.
I don't think I'd go to the trouble of testing the returns. It would cause other problems first. Fork up the 145 and swap pumps. How much do you make an hour?

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  #45  
Old 03-18-2014, 10:40 PM
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Haven't gotten to the return just to check it. Got a check so I will probably get the pump, but if the company said they tested it good then is there something that test can't figure out? And earlier on when you said to unplug the ip and try to start it, what is that testing for?
 
  #46  
Old 03-19-2014, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by davidthomas
Haven't gotten to the return just to check it. Got a check so I will probably get the pump, but if the company said they tested it good then is there something that test can't figure out? And earlier on when you said to unplug the ip and try to start it, what is that testing for?
Stand alone is powering the ip and allowing it to run without the ecm controlling it. I honestly don't think they have a bench to test the pump. I think they buy from someone else. They knew that youd take their word for it and sent it back. I may be completely wrong, but right now its the cheapest option you have! In my mind it's the only logical cause for your misfire. That is if you've done everything you said above, you've pretty much eliminated all other possibilities. I just had a pump that was bought from bwd by a customer, truck wouldn't start with the pump installed. BWD via advance auto supplied a new pump, and the truck ran fine. Now bwd is denying the labor claim saying the pump tested fine, after further research I'm one of 80 shops who have filed labor claims and been denied because the "the pump tested fine". After a little more research we found bwd doesn't even have a bench to test the pump! To have it tested they'd have to ship it to their contract injection shop in china!

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  #47  
Old 03-19-2014, 09:00 AM
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That makes a lot of sense for it. I will contact them today for the new pump.
 
  #48  
Old 03-19-2014, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by davidthomas
That makes a lot of sense for it. I will contact them today for the new pump.
Like I said, I may be wrong but I can't see how there's another option below $200.00 and it looks like we're running out of testing options without pulling the head.

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  #49  
Old 03-22-2014, 04:07 PM
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Contacted company wednesday and nothing. Ill give yhem until mon to respond to attempt again.
 
  #50  
Old 03-22-2014, 10:39 PM
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If you cant get ahold of them and you have a warranty i would say send they pump to another shop maybe to see if it is for sure bad and depending on what they say take there butts to court if they refuse to fix the issue ...
 


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