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Originally Posted by Ramprat
(Post 656069)
I'm not a fan of the 40 & while they say this is not a failure of the 180gr round, only going 1 inch or so into a human sure makes one sit back and think....especially as the Gold Dot is a superb preforming bullet...why/what kept the 40 from penetrating any deeper...
The report goes on to say that the 55 & 75gr TAP ammo did not preform as expected and did not meet the FBI's standards of performance... The TAP round is what other 5.56 anti personnel/sniper rounds are judged by in accuracy and terminal performance when it comes to self defense ammo in the 5.56...how/why did this round fail and how/why did it not meet the FBI's standards...why is this round the round of choice for anti badguy teams around the country ...how does it stack up to the standard military 5.56 round & the new and improved Mk 262 & MK318 ammo.....along with the Black Hills comparable ammo..... What did they expect as far as stopping a bad guy hell bent on going out in a blaze of gunfire....mentally prepared to deal with getting shot... Lots of questions left un answered....that report to me created more questions than it answered.... I've always read that a lighter bullet (155gr or around there) in the 40 did better....but again I'm not a fan of the 40 and think it's a round created to "fix" a problem the FBI was having...instead of addressing any precieved weak areas in the 10mm (the 40 is a 10mm in diapers and designed for the FBI when it was found that agents had a hard time controlling the recoil of the 10mm or shooting them accurately) or the 9mm or 45ACP. The 40 has a bigger bullet than the 9mm, less magazine capacity, a smaller bullet than the 45 but a extra round or two...it's not ballistically that much better better than the 45acp or the 9mm. Personally I prefer a 115-124 gr +P or +P+ JHP in the 9mm and a 230gr +P or +P+ in the 45ACP....and military ball in the 5.56 but that's just me... The pistol is a self defense weapon used to fight your way to your rifle/shotgun....it's not designed or expected to be a 40megawat blaster killing anything and everything... The 5.56 round again ain't the same man killer the 308, 30/06 or the 50 cal is...it's good and it's accurate, but ya have to accept what it is and use it within it's limitations...and accept it will not end the fight every time with a single round.... Need to dig out the picture of the guy high on angel dust...he was shot 99 times (or around that) with 9mm's, blind, dead and dead, yet still trying to kill cops....and it took a few 12ga slugs to bring him down (he finally bled out) Ever hear of the box of truth....lots of good to great info there... The Box O' Truth - Ammo Penetration Testing Bottom line is any caliber/cartridge/bullet can and will fail.....it's up to the shooter to determine what caliber they are comfortable with, that the weapon they are shooting it in functions 100% of the time and is accurate with this ammo....and to know and accept the limitations of the weapon/caliber they are shooting...and to train and expect it to fail at the worst possible time..... |
hmmm well i have a 45 now and love it the only its just too dam heavy (it is a spring 1911 full size lol) so maybe a sig .45 hmmmm
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I won't own a .40 caliber just based on the cost of ammo. It's a bit more expensive (in my neck of the woods, anyway) than either 9mm or .45ACP which is really odd and I have yet to figure it out.
If you're not shooting a purely defensive round (JHP, JSP, Corbon Pow'rBall, etc.) then you haven't put enough thought into defending yourself and really haven't done any research into wound ballistics and what will cause the most damage in the quickest amount of time. I've seen too many shooters load regular ball ammo thinking that it will work, and the reality is most of the time the round won't even start tumbling until AFTER its left the person you're shooting. For my rifles (AR-15 and SKS) I mostly use ball ammo for general target practice but I always keep some SP ammo loaded for those moments when we might have "unexpected visitors" if we ever happen to have one or three. Ramprat is right about the .40 being a "fix" for the FBI. Female agents complained about the recoil of the .45, and male agents complained about the lack of stopping power of the 9mm ..... so the .40 was created as a trade-off between the two. It would have been a better choice to simply keep the Beretta's they had and opted for better ammo. Kris |
interesting
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Not quite right MarineOne.
The .40 S&W was developed from the ground up as a law enforcement cartridge designed to duplicate performance of the FBI's reduced velocity 10mm cartridge which could be retrofitted into medium-frame (9mm size) automatic handguns. read all about it at the on line encycpidea known as wikipedia Corbon Pow'rBall...well, that's a gimmick......nothing more...stay away from such animals they are better at separating you from your money than stopping the bad guy... Is soft point ammo that much better than ball in 5.56 or the 7.62x39???? Keep the Beretta's who had??? Was not the FBI....they have never been issued Beretta's as the primary sidearm.... |
hmmm Debate? Debate? lol
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Well after doing some more thinking and looking I want a sig P229 but now what calabur hmm :humm:
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Originally Posted by big bad diesel 416
(Post 660934)
Well after doing some more thinking and looking I want a sig P229 but now what calabur hmm :humm:
Personally I'd go with the 9mm....and I've got a P229R in 357 Sig..... |
I assume the secret service is carrying the 40 cal?
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Originally Posted by big bad diesel 416
(Post 660954)
I assume the secret service is carrying the 40 cal?
Last I knew it was the Sig 229 chambered in 357Sig...... The 357sig was designed to mimic the 125gr jhp 357magnum round & that round is the #1 of all time bad guy stopper in a handgun..it also has superior penetration capabilities when shooting through a car door, glass or such barriers...it's also a extremly flat shooting cartridge, much easier to engage targets at 100 yards or further if needed......... The only reasons I'd say the 9mm over the 357Sig is that the 9mm is cheaper & easier to find...It's a superb cartridge, but hard to find.....and expensive when you do find it..... We were on a road trip & for S&G stopped in looking for 357sig.....nobody had it & all I had was 22rds of it....trying to find a emergency reload was impossible... |
wow did not know that
whats the wight difference between the 3 when fully loaded? |
Originally Posted by big bad diesel 416
(Post 661061)
wow did not know that
whats the wight difference between the 3 when fully loaded? |
the loaded weigh
a P229 with a full clip of 9mm how much dose it weigh? then a P229 in .40 cal and in 357sig whats lighter to carry weight is a big thing for me |
Originally Posted by big bad diesel 416
(Post 661144)
the loaded weigh
a P229 with a full clip of 9mm how much dose it weigh? then a P229 in .40 cal and in 357sig whats lighter to carry weight is a big thing for me The Sig 229 is not small, it's heavier than the Sig 239 and I love my 239... If weight is a concern then go with the Sig P239 in 9mm.... it's smaller/lighter and the magazines hold less cartridges.... Got to figure 12+ rounds of 180gr bullets...for the 40 12+ rounds of 125gr for the 357sig and 12+ rounds of 124gr for the 9mm...... Vs 7 rounds of 9mm in the 239..... I carry 2 extra mags and 1 in the pipe for a total of 22rds of 125gr 357sig ammo when carrying the P239... |
I carry a P229 in .40 on duty and have a 226 at home and they are both great but the 229 is shorter and better for Conceal Carry, both are DAK so nothing to really get cought on when pulling out. My hands are too big for the 239 but ive heard a from a few people that its easy to conseal because of the size. Good luck and you cant go wrong with any SIG they some great guns. :c:
O yeah they have the 22lr converson kit on sale right now for christmas, picking one up for my self for cheap shooting. 22lr conversion sale |
thats my issue as well with small guns I have BIG hands also whats DAK
you should put that 229 on one of those crack scales the cops carry in the back of there cars and let me know what it weighs :tu: |
3 Attachment(s)
Rampy wears Xlarge gloves.....and the 239 fits his hand, that's why it's so important to actually play with & feel the pistol prior to purchasing it.
Find a gun shop that rents guns...rent one and go bang....then get another one & make it go bang...compare them.... Attachment 44183 Attachment 44184 Compared to the 239... Attachment 44185 ---AutoMerged DoublePost---
Originally Posted by big bad diesel 416
(Post 661303)
thats my issue as well with small guns I have BIG hands also whats DAK
Don't forget you are behind the kalif curtain & if I remember right can only have 10rd mags... Why get a bigger framed gun that's harder to conceal when ya can't take advantage of the hi magazine capacity..... |
ya in CA i think we can have 10 in the mag and one in the hole but I could be wrong and I would probably carry 1 or 2 back up mags in some cases
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You know if you are a 1911 guy you could always go with a 1911 commander .. just saying
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I just picked up a RIA 1911 with a 4" barrel it fits pretty nice and dont mind it have not carried it much yet as I am waiting on CBI to get everything back from them to the sheriffs office here for my CC permit.
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hmmmm
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This is one that I am going to build of clone of when the $$ comes in.
http://tblankenship.zenfolio.com/img...17215890-5.jpg |
man thats nice
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Originally Posted by Ramprat
(Post 661355)
Find a gun shop that rents guns...rent one and go bang....then get another one & make it go bang...compare them.... |
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Attachment 44148
Attachment 44149 Sold the holster, did not like the combination leather/kydex.... Replaced it with a Comp-Tac CTAC and love it. |
I also picked up a sig P6 several months ago. These are German police trade ins and were mostly made in the 80's. Its a West German sig so its quality is amazing compared to some of the current American production sigs (think jam-o-matic 226s and 229s .. not all but some). Anyway its a single stack 9mm so it has a really thin profile like the 1911. 8+1 capacity .. but it is only 9mm if that matters to you. You can pick them up for under $400
pic for reference (not my pistol but identical) http://i53.servimg.com/u/f53/12/63/91/01/p6_ccw15.jpg |
Originally Posted by kbailey
(Post 663269)
This is one that I am going to build of clone of when the $$ comes in.
http://tblankenship.zenfolio.com/img...17215890-5.jpg
Originally Posted by Ramprat
(Post 663367)
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...6/IMG00603.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...6/IMG00613.jpg Sold the holster, did not like the combination leather/kydex.... Replaced it with a Comp-Tac CTAC and love it. |
Conceal carry - Sig Sauer
For what it's worth in leaning to an xd in a 45acp. Mine will be the 5 inch tactical version. Lasermax has a sight that goes right below the barrel for that gun and you still have a free rail. Mine will primarily be for when I'm out hunting. Nice to have a sidearm for when something jump out at you unexpectedly it's kinda hard to shoot at somthing wit a rifle at 20 feet lol. I've shot xds and I love them. They just feel good to MY hands.
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Well I never did get my gun for X-mas so now I am back on the hunt and have some more questions I WILL be buying next weekend NO EXCUSES
I have went back to carrying full time 24/7 with my SA 1911 .45 in the shoulder with 2 spares and now its getting hot out and I want to go back to wearing T-shirts and I cant where one with that big ole sucker on so I went back and re read this and have some questions
Originally Posted by Nitelord
(Post 651429)
I have a Sig P229 and a Sig P239. The P239 is more suited for concealed carry due to my skinny frame.
what holster and do you carry mags?
Originally Posted by Ramprat
(Post 652761)
Gun Belts by The Belt Man makes superb leather belts are a really reasonable price.
Tactical Gear, Tactical Equipment, Duty Belts, Slings, USA 5 stitch belts are good, not top of the line, but dang good belts. I've got one of these belts on order.... Cobra Shooters Belt 1.75" (CSB-175) it's among the best of the best you will ever get for a gunbelt....
Originally Posted by Ramprat
(Post 660939)
You have 3 choices.....9mm, 40S&W and 357sig....
Personally I'd go with the 9mm....and I've got a P229R in 357 Sig..... so its a coin toss either will do the job
Originally Posted by DIESELDENT
(Post 661184)
I carry a P229 in .40 on duty and have a 226 at home and they are both great but the 229 is shorter and better for Conceal Carry, both are DAK so nothing to really get cought on when pulling out. My hands are too big for the 239 but ive heard a from a few people that its easy to conseal because of the size.
I really want the 229 that thing fit really well and shot NICE but it is a little big IMO to try to conceal 24/7 I am leaning towards the .40 cal they seem to shoot better "for me" than the 9mm whats the best in holsters? I have heard alot about crossbreed supertucks and the one ramprat mentioned I would like to carry strong side hip on the inside if I can and get something that looks about like a leatherman case to carry one mag how do you guys like the draw on the 239? easy to come out? easy to get in? dose it catch at all? how do you feel about living your life to the fullest extent with a 239 on your person and being cocked locked and ready to run do you feel safe from accidental discharge due to something catching or rubbing ect ect? also is a open ended holster have this issue? I have a soft one that dose how the pre forms? Attachment 42144 one of you guys that carrys a 239 can you take a pic of you carrying and let me see how they hide? |
The riggers belt is 1.75 and fits in the belt loops of Wranglers & the other pants I wear (except dress pants)
I carry my Sig P239 in a Comp-Tac CTAC and love it and the 239 is a superb IWB daily carry & depending on the shooter is a extremly accurate pistol. Cheap holsters are dangerous and just plain stupid, you should never stick a $600 pistol in a $10 el cheapo holster. I've never understood the idea about putting your pistol in the cheapest holster you could find instead of actually spending $80 or more on a quality holster. Oh and you might want to learn what "cocked and locked" is as you don't carry the P239 "cocked and locked" :s::s::s: |
Originally Posted by Ramprat
(Post 737938)
Oh and you might want to learn what "cocked and locked" is as you don't carry the P239 "cocked and locked" :s::s::s: to me that means one in the pipe "cocked" and the safety on "locked" |
Cocked and locked is a 1911 thing. One of the few guns (if not the only) safe to carry in "condition 1"
Read up... Is Cocked and Locked Dangerous? |
Originally Posted by big bad diesel 416
(Post 738018)
explain?
to me that means one in the pipe "cocked" and the safety on "locked" |
Interesting
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I have the P220 Sig (4" barrel) and the Kimber CDPII Officer (3" Barrel). Both .45ACP, Sig is a DA/SA type and the Kimber is a 1911 model. The Kimber is a bit smaller and is (obviously) my carry gun. Bought them both new. They are both great pistols and seem to fit my hand, grip comfortably, naturally, etc. I take then both out for target practice every so often and shoot them both the same amount. But for some reason I always show slightly better average accuracy with the Kimber when practicing.
That is contrary to what I would think, being the longer barreled Sig should be a bit more accurate, generally speaking. |
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My Daily rider. .40 cal XDM light trigger mod.
By the way love it!!!!!!!!!!!! as you can see lock still wrapped. Attachment 42123 |
where do you put it?
and how dose it hide? |
Usually draw it from my right side. It doesnt snag oem holster on bit. I wore a beretta 9 in Iraq and I could get my credit card out faster than that wheel chock. sits in glove box as far as 4.5 barrel it never extends out of my jackets unless I sqaut down. When summer time is around I can wear it on my fore head in Iowa if i wanted to. I dont have to conceal it. I love the thing i hit tennis balls from stationary targets at 50yrds with it like there 25 out. Feels balanced and natural. U can feel and adjust for the amount of ammo in mag. Im serious when i say this go to a range and rent one for the day.
---AutoMerged DoublePost--- Not to mention they opened small arms on deers this past year and ummmmmmm yeah. It works.lol |
You should go to a range that has guns for rent or use freinds to try several. I have a sig229 and love, but i carry a glock 27 just because it is smaller and i can shoot the same group with. I also like the H&k which is much smoother than a glock. If you take the 5 top guns and let 5 guys shoot every body will have a difrent favorate. If you buy a sig you will never regret they are a good gun. And dont buy a 9mm. the 40 is the best for acuracey and weight. and i would not buy a XD just ask your local gun store what he thinks!
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Whats your opinions on the XD/XDM or your gun dealer not a SA question just would love to here why you wouldnt consider one?
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