Best Shotguns for home defense.
#71
09-19-2009, 08:38 PM
I agree 100% I keep a 40 s&w next to my bed, not a shotgun. He wants a shotgun... Or are you talking about teh not hitting with your 1st shot comment? If you cant hit your target with the 1st shot from a shot gun of all things you should not pull teh trigger. You have not identified your target well enough. Be a bitch to shoot your old lady while she was getting a drink of water. I bet you dont get laid for a while...
Last edited by RSWORDS; 09-19-2009 at 08:52 PM.
#72
09-19-2009, 08:45 PM
Unlike what you see in the movies the facts here are that if you take a shot at somebody that is in the open and they take cover, you better run cause your dealin with somebody that has experience and is probably still alive because they are good at what they do. The fact is that at that first shot if we feel vulnerable, as in standing in the open, instinct tells us to run, run far and run fast. This is why Law enforcement and military do so many drills and exercises with these circumstances so that they can fight those instincts and stay for the fight.
When you see news footage of crowds and people are duckin and divin under tables you are lookin at more of a "monkey see, monkey do" kind of thing. That first person ducks and everybody else subconsciously see this and follow suit. As social animals we by instinct follow the leader in a crowd situation. But this doesn't apply in home defense because there is no crowd to follow.
Now I'm really gonna step on some manhood here and stir some folks up and my only reason for doing this is to maybe stop one person from getting into a situation that they can't get out of. Everybody out there thinks they would have no problem pulling that trigger and taking a life. Welcome to being a man. But the facts also are that without proper training and even with it most of you can't do it and that shouldn't be a threat to your manhood. I've watched many men fold in this situation the first time they were there and that was with training. They got lucky, somebody else was there to back them up. But at the same time I have never seen any of those same men fold the second time. They experienced it, they processed it and they got on with business the next time. Mother nature made it against our nature to take another persons life. If you have never looked down that barrel at a man for real, life and death on the line, from either direction then you can't even imagine the emotion that is going to flood you the first time you do. This is one of those things you can talk about but until you live it you won't understand it.
This is why I recommend non-lethal ammunition for this shotgun. You will shoot without hesitation with it because inside yourself you know you are not going to kill anybody. With real ammo you will hesitate, this is just a fact, you will hesitate and that hesitation may very well cost you or a loved one a life.
Ok let the he-man remarks fly.
When you see news footage of crowds and people are duckin and divin under tables you are lookin at more of a "monkey see, monkey do" kind of thing. That first person ducks and everybody else subconsciously see this and follow suit. As social animals we by instinct follow the leader in a crowd situation. But this doesn't apply in home defense because there is no crowd to follow.
Now I'm really gonna step on some manhood here and stir some folks up and my only reason for doing this is to maybe stop one person from getting into a situation that they can't get out of. Everybody out there thinks they would have no problem pulling that trigger and taking a life. Welcome to being a man. But the facts also are that without proper training and even with it most of you can't do it and that shouldn't be a threat to your manhood. I've watched many men fold in this situation the first time they were there and that was with training. They got lucky, somebody else was there to back them up. But at the same time I have never seen any of those same men fold the second time. They experienced it, they processed it and they got on with business the next time. Mother nature made it against our nature to take another persons life. If you have never looked down that barrel at a man for real, life and death on the line, from either direction then you can't even imagine the emotion that is going to flood you the first time you do. This is one of those things you can talk about but until you live it you won't understand it.
This is why I recommend non-lethal ammunition for this shotgun. You will shoot without hesitation with it because inside yourself you know you are not going to kill anybody. With real ammo you will hesitate, this is just a fact, you will hesitate and that hesitation may very well cost you or a loved one a life.
Ok let the he-man remarks fly.
As far as thinking you can pull the trigger, everyone thinks they can but till it happens you dont know... I was in one situation were I though I would have to use my gun, kid was in a convinence store, playing with something under his shirt paceing around, he was getting ready to hold it up. I took the strap off my 40 and clicked off the saftey, I was scared shitless. Luckly the kid just walked out, I'm glad. I really dont know if I could have shot him if it came down to it.
The fact is that even if its 100% justifiable you will be in a ****-storm, Your gonna freak out, have problems sleeping, you WILL get sued. Might get crimianl charges. Pray you never get into that situation.
#73
09-19-2009, 09:49 PM
Diesel Bomber
In a law enforcement situation, where police, etc have shoot to kill programming beat into them almost daily, it makes for an effective means of subduing a perp with a lessened possibility of lethal injury....notice I said lessened....a bean bag round can kill a person if used incorrectly by an inexperienced homeowner who bought 3 rounds from Cheaper Than Dirt without actually understanding their intended purpose.
If you do successfully shoot a perp with a bean bag round, and hit him in the leg, arm, stomach, etc....and if that said perp is by chance high on PCP, Crank, or in dire straits of withdrawl and needs your TV, laptop computer, or jewelry box to pawn for his next fix, well, if an entire mag from a 9mm won't stop them (documented) I highly doubt a bean bag is going to get him to run away in fear.....
Consider the options....
1) Surefire beam to the face, rack the slide, and say "STOP! GET DOWN ON THE GROUND!"
2) If they don't, use one of the rounds of Federal Law Enforcement Low Recoil 00 Buck to blow that coffee table in your living room you never really liked but your wife just had to have into a million pieces to let the perp know your gun has more than bean bags in it.
3) If they keep coming, blow a freakin' hole in them you can drive a truck through.
It might not work for everyone depending on their area of residency and level of malice, but in my little world, it will.
If you do successfully shoot a perp with a bean bag round, and hit him in the leg, arm, stomach, etc....and if that said perp is by chance high on PCP, Crank, or in dire straits of withdrawl and needs your TV, laptop computer, or jewelry box to pawn for his next fix, well, if an entire mag from a 9mm won't stop them (documented) I highly doubt a bean bag is going to get him to run away in fear.....
Consider the options....
1) Surefire beam to the face, rack the slide, and say "STOP! GET DOWN ON THE GROUND!"
2) If they don't, use one of the rounds of Federal Law Enforcement Low Recoil 00 Buck to blow that coffee table in your living room you never really liked but your wife just had to have into a million pieces to let the perp know your gun has more than bean bags in it.
3) If they keep coming, blow a freakin' hole in them you can drive a truck through.
It might not work for everyone depending on their area of residency and level of malice, but in my little world, it will.
Last edited by Mr. Miyagi; 09-19-2009 at 09:55 PM. Reason: profanity
#74
09-20-2009, 01:08 PM
Diesel Wrench
http://canadaammo.com/product.php?pr...1&cat=0&page=1
Nice 12.5" barrel Pump
For home defense I would actually prefer something smaller that is easily maneuvered indoors/room to room. A nice 1911 .45 would be good if you are capable of good results with a pistol. One advantage you Americans have, is that you are allowed to put suppressors on your weapons, a suppressed pistol indoors would be greatly favoured as opposed to anything else without a can on it. Just my opinion though.
You could always get proficient at using throwing knives as well....
Nice 12.5" barrel Pump
For home defense I would actually prefer something smaller that is easily maneuvered indoors/room to room. A nice 1911 .45 would be good if you are capable of good results with a pistol. One advantage you Americans have, is that you are allowed to put suppressors on your weapons, a suppressed pistol indoors would be greatly favoured as opposed to anything else without a can on it. Just my opinion though.
You could always get proficient at using throwing knives as well....
#75
09-20-2009, 01:35 PM
Diesel Bomber
Actually, both that shotgun and any type of suppressor are illegal to own here in the states unless you have a Class 3 weapons permit, which can be a bear to obtain in most states/jurisdictions and impossible to get in others. Mega-background searches, fingerprinting, photo I.D. name,rank and serial number... and that's just for the application. All that is sent off to at least the BATF, who will take 3-6 months to give you an answer. Once you have the permit, you will have to get a $200.00 Class 3 tax stamp, which is good for ONE transfer of a Class 3 weapon.
According to the BATF, Class 3 weapons are described as:
Machine guns, sound suppressors (a.k.a.
silencers), short barreled shotguns, short barreled rifles,
destructive devices and "any other weapons".
A machine gun is any gun that can fire more than one shot with a single pull of the
trigger, or a receiver of a machine gun, or a combination of
parts for assembling a machine gun, or a part or set of parts for
converting a gun into a machine gun.
A silencer is any device for muffling the gunshot of a portable firearm, or any part
exclusively designed or intended for such a device.
A short barreled shotgun is any shotgun (shoulder fired, smooth bore) with a barrel of less than 18" or an overall length of less than 26", or any weapon made from a
shotgun falling into the same length parameters.
A short barreled rifle is a rifle (shoulder fired, rifled bore) with a
barrel length of less than 16", or an overall length of less
than 26", or any weapon made from a rifle falling into the same
length parameters (like a pistol made from a rifle).
In measuring barrel length you do it from the closed breech to the
muzzle, see 27 CFR sec. 179.11. To measure overall length do so
along, "the distance between the extreme ends of the weapon
measured along a line parallel to the center line of the bore."
27 CFR sec. 179.11. On a folding stock weapon you measure with
the stock extended, provided the stock is not readily detachable,
and the weapon is meant to be fired from the shoulder.
A destructive device (DD) is an explosive, incendiary or poison gas
weapon, or any firearm with a bore over 1/2", with exceptions for
sporting shotguns, among other things.
Any other weapons (AOW's) are a number of things; smooth bore
pistols, any pistol with more than one grip,
gadget type guns (cane gun, pen gun) and shoulder fired weapons
with both rifled and smooth bore barrels between 12" and 18",
that must be manually reloaded. These
definitions are simplified, to see if a specific gun is a title 1
or 2 firearm one needs to refer to the specific definition under
the statute(s), and possibly consult with the Technology Branch
of ATF. There is also case law on the issue of whether a
specific item falls into one of these categories.
According to the BATF, Class 3 weapons are described as:
Machine guns, sound suppressors (a.k.a.
silencers), short barreled shotguns, short barreled rifles,
destructive devices and "any other weapons".
A machine gun is any gun that can fire more than one shot with a single pull of the
trigger, or a receiver of a machine gun, or a combination of
parts for assembling a machine gun, or a part or set of parts for
converting a gun into a machine gun.
A silencer is any device for muffling the gunshot of a portable firearm, or any part
exclusively designed or intended for such a device.
A short barreled shotgun is any shotgun (shoulder fired, smooth bore) with a barrel of less than 18" or an overall length of less than 26", or any weapon made from a
shotgun falling into the same length parameters.
A short barreled rifle is a rifle (shoulder fired, rifled bore) with a
barrel length of less than 16", or an overall length of less
than 26", or any weapon made from a rifle falling into the same
length parameters (like a pistol made from a rifle).
In measuring barrel length you do it from the closed breech to the
muzzle, see 27 CFR sec. 179.11. To measure overall length do so
along, "the distance between the extreme ends of the weapon
measured along a line parallel to the center line of the bore."
27 CFR sec. 179.11. On a folding stock weapon you measure with
the stock extended, provided the stock is not readily detachable,
and the weapon is meant to be fired from the shoulder.
A destructive device (DD) is an explosive, incendiary or poison gas
weapon, or any firearm with a bore over 1/2", with exceptions for
sporting shotguns, among other things.
Any other weapons (AOW's) are a number of things; smooth bore
pistols, any pistol with more than one grip,
gadget type guns (cane gun, pen gun) and shoulder fired weapons
with both rifled and smooth bore barrels between 12" and 18",
that must be manually reloaded. These
definitions are simplified, to see if a specific gun is a title 1
or 2 firearm one needs to refer to the specific definition under
the statute(s), and possibly consult with the Technology Branch
of ATF. There is also case law on the issue of whether a
specific item falls into one of these categories.
The following 2 users liked this post by dieseldude03:
BigDiesel359 (09-21-2009),
dragogt (09-20-2009)
#76
09-20-2009, 04:04 PM
Diesel Fan
Well i live in the country, and dont get a whole lot of cars at night, but the closest neighbor own a large dump truck company, so im used to dump trucks shiftin gears in front of the house and hittin the jakes, add that to my heavy sleeping and my only hope is the dogs wakin me up, 
, but if i do wake up, i keep my Benelli Nova Pump next to the bed with an empty chamber and 5 00buckshot ready to go, all i gotta do is pump. I also have one of those stretchy shell holders that slides over the stock. I live by myself so the only ones to watch out for is the dogs, and more than likely i wont have to worry about having ot commit to shooting cause the dogs will be trying to eat the intruder for a midnight snack.
, but if i do wake up, i keep my Benelli Nova Pump next to the bed with an empty chamber and 5 00buckshot ready to go, all i gotta do is pump. I also have one of those stretchy shell holders that slides over the stock. I live by myself so the only ones to watch out for is the dogs, and more than likely i wont have to worry about having ot commit to shooting cause the dogs will be trying to eat the intruder for a midnight snack.
#77
09-20-2009, 05:52 PM
Diesel Enthusiast
CanadaAmmo.com :: Firearms :: Dominion Arms Grizzly Shotgun - 12.5" - 12 ga
Nice 12.5" barrel Pump
For home defense I would actually prefer something smaller that is easily maneuvered indoors/room to room. A nice 1911 .45 would be good if you are capable of good results with a pistol. One advantage you Americans have, is that you are allowed to put suppressors on your weapons, a suppressed pistol indoors would be greatly favoured as opposed to anything else without a can on it. Just my opinion though.
You could always get proficient at using throwing knives as well....
Nice 12.5" barrel Pump
For home defense I would actually prefer something smaller that is easily maneuvered indoors/room to room. A nice 1911 .45 would be good if you are capable of good results with a pistol. One advantage you Americans have, is that you are allowed to put suppressors on your weapons, a suppressed pistol indoors would be greatly favoured as opposed to anything else without a can on it. Just my opinion though.
You could always get proficient at using throwing knives as well....
#78
09-21-2009, 10:46 AM
Diesel Wrench
Actually, both that shotgun and any type of suppressor are illegal to own here in the states unless you have a Class 3 weapons permit, which can be a bear to obtain in most states/jurisdictions and impossible to get in others. Mega-background searches, fingerprinting, photo I.D. name,rank and serial number... and that's just for the application. All that is sent off to at least the BATF, who will take 3-6 months to give you an answer. Once you have the permit, you will have to get a $200.00 Class 3 tax stamp, which is good for ONE transfer of a Class 3 weapon.
According to the BATF, Class 3 weapons are described as:
Machine guns, sound suppressors (a.k.a.
silencers), short barreled shotguns, short barreled rifles,
destructive devices and "any other weapons".
A machine gun is any gun that can fire more than one shot with a single pull of the
trigger, or a receiver of a machine gun, or a combination of
parts for assembling a machine gun, or a part or set of parts for
converting a gun into a machine gun.
A silencer is any device for muffling the gunshot of a portable firearm, or any part
exclusively designed or intended for such a device.
A short barreled shotgun is any shotgun (shoulder fired, smooth bore) with a barrel of less than 18" or an overall length of less than 26", or any weapon made from a
shotgun falling into the same length parameters.
A short barreled rifle is a rifle (shoulder fired, rifled bore) with a
barrel length of less than 16", or an overall length of less
than 26", or any weapon made from a rifle falling into the same
length parameters (like a pistol made from a rifle).
In measuring barrel length you do it from the closed breech to the
muzzle, see 27 CFR sec. 179.11. To measure overall length do so
along, "the distance between the extreme ends of the weapon
measured along a line parallel to the center line of the bore."
27 CFR sec. 179.11. On a folding stock weapon you measure with
the stock extended, provided the stock is not readily detachable,
and the weapon is meant to be fired from the shoulder.
A destructive device (DD) is an explosive, incendiary or poison gas
weapon, or any firearm with a bore over 1/2", with exceptions for
sporting shotguns, among other things.
Any other weapons (AOW's) are a number of things; smooth bore
pistols, any pistol with more than one grip,
gadget type guns (cane gun, pen gun) and shoulder fired weapons
with both rifled and smooth bore barrels between 12" and 18",
that must be manually reloaded. These
definitions are simplified, to see if a specific gun is a title 1
or 2 firearm one needs to refer to the specific definition under
the statute(s), and possibly consult with the Technology Branch
of ATF. There is also case law on the issue of whether a
specific item falls into one of these categories.
According to the BATF, Class 3 weapons are described as:
Machine guns, sound suppressors (a.k.a.
silencers), short barreled shotguns, short barreled rifles,
destructive devices and "any other weapons".
A machine gun is any gun that can fire more than one shot with a single pull of the
trigger, or a receiver of a machine gun, or a combination of
parts for assembling a machine gun, or a part or set of parts for
converting a gun into a machine gun.
A silencer is any device for muffling the gunshot of a portable firearm, or any part
exclusively designed or intended for such a device.
A short barreled shotgun is any shotgun (shoulder fired, smooth bore) with a barrel of less than 18" or an overall length of less than 26", or any weapon made from a
shotgun falling into the same length parameters.
A short barreled rifle is a rifle (shoulder fired, rifled bore) with a
barrel length of less than 16", or an overall length of less
than 26", or any weapon made from a rifle falling into the same
length parameters (like a pistol made from a rifle).
In measuring barrel length you do it from the closed breech to the
muzzle, see 27 CFR sec. 179.11. To measure overall length do so
along, "the distance between the extreme ends of the weapon
measured along a line parallel to the center line of the bore."
27 CFR sec. 179.11. On a folding stock weapon you measure with
the stock extended, provided the stock is not readily detachable,
and the weapon is meant to be fired from the shoulder.
A destructive device (DD) is an explosive, incendiary or poison gas
weapon, or any firearm with a bore over 1/2", with exceptions for
sporting shotguns, among other things.
Any other weapons (AOW's) are a number of things; smooth bore
pistols, any pistol with more than one grip,
gadget type guns (cane gun, pen gun) and shoulder fired weapons
with both rifled and smooth bore barrels between 12" and 18",
that must be manually reloaded. These
definitions are simplified, to see if a specific gun is a title 1
or 2 firearm one needs to refer to the specific definition under
the statute(s), and possibly consult with the Technology Branch
of ATF. There is also case law on the issue of whether a
specific item falls into one of these categories.
BTW, if somebody broke into my home and I was able to use lethal force to protect myself and my family, I would not want to make it known what I had and where I was. When you make all of the racket of loading your shotgun and bubba runs away, he just gets more chances to do that same **** to other people. I would like to think I could do what had to be done in the most efficient way possible at the time. I would not want to give them any other advantage.
#80
09-21-2009, 12:31 PM
