what is the best mercedes to look for
#21
01-07-2013, 03:50 PM
Yeah, I used to race sportbikes, and I've spent a decent amount of time on two wheels. You won't see me on a bike without full Dainese leathers though.
I got into VW's in the eary 90's due to the relatively low cost and high MPG of the VW diesels. They are nice little cars. But once I got my first Mercedes (W201/W124), and started seeing firsthand the difference between a German car built to a price (VW) and a German car that was not (MB), I eventually reduced my VW fleet and converted to MB's. My last VW was sold a few years ago. The MB's don't cost much more to work on and they are soooo much nicer for most DIY repairs.... IMO, anyway.
I got into VW's in the eary 90's due to the relatively low cost and high MPG of the VW diesels. They are nice little cars. But once I got my first Mercedes (W201/W124), and started seeing firsthand the difference between a German car built to a price (VW) and a German car that was not (MB), I eventually reduced my VW fleet and converted to MB's. My last VW was sold a few years ago. The MB's don't cost much more to work on and they are soooo much nicer for most DIY repairs.... IMO, anyway.
#22
01-07-2013, 10:13 PM
Diesel Enthusiast
#23
01-09-2013, 05:44 PM
#24
04-27-2013, 12:49 PM
Mercedes Durability?
The 3.5L was known as the "rodbender". It's still a mystery as to why the majority of failures were on US models, and not European models, as they used identical engine internals. But anyway, on a significant number of the 3.5L engines in the USA, the rods would bend slightly (usually #1 or #6) and cause abnormal wear on the cylinder or pistons, resulting in increased oil consumption, and eventually smoking & low power. When it gets that bad (smoking, power loss, and burning a quart of oil every ~500 miles) they usually need a rebuild. Mercedes released updated/stronger connecting rods in the late 90's, and the factory replacement motors use the updated rods... there have been nearly zero reported failures on rebuilt engines with the updated rods. If you have a 3.5L engine with the original "weak" rods, you can prevent the failure by replacing all six rods proactively. Note that the 3.5L engine was only used in the S-class from 1990-1995 (350SD, 350SDL, S350) and VERY few were imported to the USA. You'd likely need to search nationwide to find any for sale. Models with documented factory engine replacement are obviously worth more as these should not ever have the rod problem again. If you do some Googling, you'll find lots more info on this. Personally, I would love a 94-95 S350 with a rebuilt motor... incredible car, but extremely rare.
Depends if you want small, medium, or large body (small = 190D, medium = 300D/E300, large = 300SD/300SDL/350SDL/S350). And, then it depends if you want maximum fuel economy, or max power. Example: The 1990-93 300D is a great car, 30-34mpg, but a tad underpowered. The "fast" ones will be 1987 or 1998-99. Max fuel economy will be any 190D with a 5-speed manual (36-40mpg, depending if it's the 2.2L or 2.5L). The older iron-head engines (300D/SD through 1985) are about 20% less fuel efficient, 20% less powerful, noisier, and need regular manual valve adjustments. They are cheap and plentiful though. Avoid the 240D unless you enjoy scraping dead bugs off the back of the car.
Depends if you want small, medium, or large body (small = 190D, medium = 300D/E300, large = 300SD/300SDL/350SDL/S350). And, then it depends if you want maximum fuel economy, or max power. Example: The 1990-93 300D is a great car, 30-34mpg, but a tad underpowered. The "fast" ones will be 1987 or 1998-99. Max fuel economy will be any 190D with a 5-speed manual (36-40mpg, depending if it's the 2.2L or 2.5L). The older iron-head engines (300D/SD through 1985) are about 20% less fuel efficient, 20% less powerful, noisier, and need regular manual valve adjustments. They are cheap and plentiful though. Avoid the 240D unless you enjoy scraping dead bugs off the back of the car.
An acquaintance who is a Chartered Accountant bought a new Mercedes diesel about three or four years ago. It never seemed to run properly so it was taken back to the main dealers several times but the diagnostics were clueless. Just after the guarantee had expired it was found that the fault was bent con-rods "Have you been driving through water Sir?" After some haggling Mercedes did in fact provide a replacement engine as the fault had been noticed within guarantee. As the job would have normally cost £8000 this was a great relief but there is always the worry that the fault may recur.
An old colleagues sister's partner is a wealthy funeral director. He bought a new large sized Mercedes diesel for his business. Allegedly the car has a "clever" transmission (dual clutch transmission perhaps?) that can be operated either as an automatic or as a manual transmission. The transmission uses special lubricant which is cooled by running a pipe through the radiator. Allegedly the transmission fluid corrodes the pipe and boiling hot water then surges into the transmission. The transmission then explodes and spews its cogs out onto the road. The car was repaired under guarantee but twelve months later the fault repeated with cogs all over the road once again. His comments were "Fifty seven thousand pounds-worth of crap!"
I recently purchased an old Mercedes-Benz W124 300TD as "Spares or Repair" 233,000 miles. It was on a SORN and untaxed so a test drive was not possible. The declared fault was the alternator not charging. I cured this by fitting a new regulator and returned a week later with a fresh battery, fresh tax and insurance. The drive home was unexciting as the car is a just a huge slow whale of a thing with a greatly despised slush box. I only drove it the once but after that 130 mile trip the coolant had disappeared from the reservoir bottle! Later it was discovered that the oil level was half an inch above the high mark so presumably the lost water is now in the oil pan. Its next trip could well be to the scrapyard as I'm disinclined to spend time and money on a car that I hate. The story about the "million mile engine" is a myth.
#26
05-07-2013, 09:36 AM
They are only million dollar engines if you keep up with the maintenance on them. This is specially with the 617 engine 12-15K valve adjustment and most of the time people don't do this. The 2.8 million miles taxi was a non turbo version and the driver circulated 3 engines during that time. Not a million mile engine and probably before the 1 million you will have replaced the injection pump and turbo. I loved them but they are not economical or powerful and many folks just use them as noxious incinerators for their used oil or ATF fluids. They do not get over 25 mpg I have a 617 and it had well adjusted valves, almost leak free and I barely got 25 combined even driving conservatively.
The engine to get is the the 603 or 602 specially the 602 which is as powerful as the 617 at 2.5 l and both don't need the quarterly valve adjustment. Those cost 200 - 300 a pop if you don't do it yourself. And the chain loosens and usually should be replaced as well as often as a TDI (80-100K). Considering the everyone wants a premium on these cars, I upgraded to a TDI and in the long run (I calculate 2 years) I will spend less on the upkeep than my MB diesel.
I still love them but a cummins or a powerstoke 7.3 they are not. I personally know a 832 K cummins 12v and a 790K PSD that did not need their heads removed. The most I've seen on an MB is 412K and it ran pretty bad and on its second Injection Pump.
The engine to get is the the 603 or 602 specially the 602 which is as powerful as the 617 at 2.5 l and both don't need the quarterly valve adjustment. Those cost 200 - 300 a pop if you don't do it yourself. And the chain loosens and usually should be replaced as well as often as a TDI (80-100K). Considering the everyone wants a premium on these cars, I upgraded to a TDI and in the long run (I calculate 2 years) I will spend less on the upkeep than my MB diesel.
I still love them but a cummins or a powerstoke 7.3 they are not. I personally know a 832 K cummins 12v and a 790K PSD that did not need their heads removed. The most I've seen on an MB is 412K and it ran pretty bad and on its second Injection Pump.
#27
05-07-2013, 09:59 AM
The 602/603 are a good 20% more efficient than the 616/617 and produce even more power while maintaining the economy gain. Pretty amazing, IMO.
Only a few years (around 1991-1994) had timing chain issues due to a defective batch of chains, there is a factory service bulletin on this. The defective chains stretch prematurely. Once replaced, they last almost forever. The chains don't need to be replaced proactively like TDI belts, you measure chain stretch, and if it exceeds the limit, replace it. With proper oil change intervals this translates into about 250-300kmi with dino, and with synthetic the chain wear almost stops entirely.
It's hard to compare trucks to MB's for high mileage because most MB's are not used the same way. I know of several MB diesels in the 400k-600k range. Don't forget that if you have a monthly payment on the TDI, that's still money out of your wallet, even if you're spending less on upkeep.
Only a few years (around 1991-1994) had timing chain issues due to a defective batch of chains, there is a factory service bulletin on this. The defective chains stretch prematurely. Once replaced, they last almost forever. The chains don't need to be replaced proactively like TDI belts, you measure chain stretch, and if it exceeds the limit, replace it. With proper oil change intervals this translates into about 250-300kmi with dino, and with synthetic the chain wear almost stops entirely.
It's hard to compare trucks to MB's for high mileage because most MB's are not used the same way. I know of several MB diesels in the 400k-600k range. Don't forget that if you have a monthly payment on the TDI, that's still money out of your wallet, even if you're spending less on upkeep.
#28
05-13-2013, 10:24 PM
I am not making payments on my TDI It is not a new one. 4200 with a new IP, turbo and 40 K miles before the next timing belt job from today. I have never made payments on a car, well maybe once but it was against my 401K and I paid myself basically. This TDI is also the ALH engine, regarded as the best TDI to have kind of like a 12v or 7.3.
We drive a lot. Two kids do competitive gymnastics and the meets are on different states sometimes 6-9 times a year each. Since October we have put 20 K miles on our TDI and if I have the Benz 300D W123, I would have to do the valves twice already and got half the mileage of the TDI plus it has a flaxky aircon, slow etc. I loved them but can't do it any longer. Do it yourself you can change the TDI belt for about 400. Work overtime a couple of weeks and I can pay my mechanic to do the TB for 900.
I've seen chains detonate on the 617 as well maybe more than the 603 or 602. We drive a lot. I will be getting a 1992 2.5L 300D MB in July if my friend will let it go by that time
---AutoMerged DoublePost---
Sorry to have change the topic to TDI. The best Mercedes to have IMO is the rare 190D Manual with the 2.5 engine, then the 1990-1993 2.5 L 300D TurboDiesel, it is a better style car and then the 1987 300D which is the most powerful Diesel car until 1998 with the Computer controlled e300 Diesel. After that it is lofty territory with the new Benzes with the CDI and then Bluetec,
And the TB job on the TDI is actually a lot of stuff including the waterpump and a coolant change. In my opinion it is a good thing to do all of that at 100K miles on any car.
Thanks
We drive a lot. Two kids do competitive gymnastics and the meets are on different states sometimes 6-9 times a year each. Since October we have put 20 K miles on our TDI and if I have the Benz 300D W123, I would have to do the valves twice already and got half the mileage of the TDI plus it has a flaxky aircon, slow etc. I loved them but can't do it any longer. Do it yourself you can change the TDI belt for about 400. Work overtime a couple of weeks and I can pay my mechanic to do the TB for 900.
I've seen chains detonate on the 617 as well maybe more than the 603 or 602. We drive a lot. I will be getting a 1992 2.5L 300D MB in July if my friend will let it go by that time
The 602/603 are a good 20% more efficient than the 616/617 and produce even more power while maintaining the economy gain. Pretty amazing, IMO.
Only a few years (around 1991-1994) had timing chain issues due to a defective batch of chains, there is a factory service bulletin on this. The defective chains stretch prematurely. Once replaced, they last almost forever. The chains don't need to be replaced proactively like TDI belts, you measure chain stretch, and if it exceeds the limit, replace it. With proper oil change intervals this translates into about 250-300kmi with dino, and with synthetic the chain wear almost stops entirely.
It's hard to compare trucks to MB's for high mileage because most MB's are not used the same way. I know of several MB diesels in the 400k-600k range. Don't forget that if you have a monthly payment on the TDI, that's still money out of your wallet, even if you're spending less on upkeep.
Only a few years (around 1991-1994) had timing chain issues due to a defective batch of chains, there is a factory service bulletin on this. The defective chains stretch prematurely. Once replaced, they last almost forever. The chains don't need to be replaced proactively like TDI belts, you measure chain stretch, and if it exceeds the limit, replace it. With proper oil change intervals this translates into about 250-300kmi with dino, and with synthetic the chain wear almost stops entirely.
It's hard to compare trucks to MB's for high mileage because most MB's are not used the same way. I know of several MB diesels in the 400k-600k range. Don't forget that if you have a monthly payment on the TDI, that's still money out of your wallet, even if you're spending less on upkeep.
---AutoMerged DoublePost---
Sorry to have change the topic to TDI. The best Mercedes to have IMO is the rare 190D Manual with the 2.5 engine, then the 1990-1993 2.5 L 300D TurboDiesel, it is a better style car and then the 1987 300D which is the most powerful Diesel car until 1998 with the Computer controlled e300 Diesel. After that it is lofty territory with the new Benzes with the CDI and then Bluetec,
And the TB job on the TDI is actually a lot of stuff including the waterpump and a coolant change. In my opinion it is a good thing to do all of that at 100K miles on any car.
Thanks
Last edited by logdrum; 05-13-2013 at 10:24 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
#29
06-27-2013, 07:33 PM
New engine on a 1991 300SD
"When it gets that bad (smoking, power loss, and burning a quart of oil every ~500 miles) they usually need a rebuild. Mercedes released updated/stronger connecting rods in the late 90's, and the factory replacement motors use the updated rods... there have been nearly zero reported failures on rebuilt engines with the updated rods"
When did MB start releasing the engines with the better support for the rods? I'm looking at buying a 1991 300SD turbo diesel that had it's engine replaced in 1997...everything else about the car seems to be dreamy...
When did MB start releasing the engines with the better support for the rods? I'm looking at buying a 1991 300SD turbo diesel that had it's engine replaced in 1997...everything else about the car seems to be dreamy...
#30
06-27-2013, 07:44 PM
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