On my way to 500HP!
#1
03-07-2012, 12:09 AM
On my way to 500HP!
Santa left me a present. 
Now if FFD can get my injectors to me in time, I might just have to make a trip to Atlanta Dragway in Commerce and push that 12.961 time down to something a little more respectable. Any guesses what we'll see with 175's on stock nozzles, HPOP, and a downpipe only? I'm hoping to put down 525 on fuel only and 575 on Water Meth. That should put me about 12.3 @108 MPH!
Boy, I sure hope the tranny holds until I can get a BTS.
Now if FFD can get my injectors to me in time, I might just have to make a trip to Atlanta Dragway in Commerce and push that 12.961 time down to something a little more respectable. Any guesses what we'll see with 175's on stock nozzles, HPOP, and a downpipe only? I'm hoping to put down 525 on fuel only and 575 on Water Meth. That should put me about 12.3 @108 MPH!
Boy, I sure hope the tranny holds until I can get a BTS.
#2
03-07-2012, 12:19 AM
#3
03-07-2012, 09:53 AM
#4
03-07-2012, 11:07 AM
Before anyone gets on a tangent about "Why are you doing this, or why are you doing that, or that crap isn't going to work," here's the logic behind my reasoning...
Currently running a 2004 Single Cab 2WD with stock sticks, stock turbo, stock exhaust, stock airbox, head studs, EGR cooler delete, custom ECM tune, and Custom FICM tune. No banjo bolts, no blue spring. I am putting down an honest 430 HP on #2 only, and 480 HP with Water/Meth. Even on the Water/Meth, my runs are CLEAN... No smoke at all. Right off, this tells me that I haven't exceeded the capabilities of the turbo, so I have no need to change it... yet.
With all that said, I tend to be very analytical about how I approach modifications. I dyno, datalog, and document EVERY change I make to the vehicle so I know what did what and how everything is effected. This way, I can make educated, informed decisions about the benefits (both positive and negative) of each component. I can then pass that information on to our customers so that they can be comfortable in the knowledge that they are making wise investment choices with their purchases.
The first modification I need to address is the exhaust. EGTs are already getting unmanageable with the stock exhaust (gee, big surprise!) and the Diamond Eye exhaust is sitting in the corner of the shop just waiting to get installed. We'll do a few runs just to see how the exhaust system fared and then move on to more exciting modifications. I still haven't made a decision on what intake setup I want to run, so that'll have to be addressed when I have time.
We are going with the smaller injectors for a couple reasons. First, I got them at a really good price because they still had stock nozzles on them, but more importantly it was because I really want to see just what is actually capable with a good street injector and how well the existing induction system holds up with the added fuel. We'll be datalogging everything to see how the stock HPOP holds up under the added demands of the larger injectors, along with fuel pressure changes with the stock fuel system. We'll make the necessary modifications to the fuel system (banjo bolts, fuel spring) and then retest. Finally, we'll upgrade the HPOP and retest. Again, we'll datalog everything and see how everything holds up.
Since there seems to a number of trucks that are getting "close to 500HP" on stock injectors, I don't think 525HP on 175's is an unreasonable goal. Since the 6.0L tends to (conservatively) make about 3HP per cc (405 HP at 135cc) it would stand to reason that 175cc injectors would (again, conservatively) produce in the area of 525HP. If I rated it more aggressively at the 434HP I am currently making (with basically no mods to speak of), that would put the HP per cc at 3.215 and yield in the area of 560HP with 175cc injectors. Of course, this is all armchair engineering and I fully understand the reality of the situation may be completely different, but I'm still confident that 525HP is not an unreasonable expectation. We'll see soon enough, though.
Mod progressions are planned as follows:
That's about it for now.
Currently running a 2004 Single Cab 2WD with stock sticks, stock turbo, stock exhaust, stock airbox, head studs, EGR cooler delete, custom ECM tune, and Custom FICM tune. No banjo bolts, no blue spring. I am putting down an honest 430 HP on #2 only, and 480 HP with Water/Meth. Even on the Water/Meth, my runs are CLEAN... No smoke at all. Right off, this tells me that I haven't exceeded the capabilities of the turbo, so I have no need to change it... yet.
With all that said, I tend to be very analytical about how I approach modifications. I dyno, datalog, and document EVERY change I make to the vehicle so I know what did what and how everything is effected. This way, I can make educated, informed decisions about the benefits (both positive and negative) of each component. I can then pass that information on to our customers so that they can be comfortable in the knowledge that they are making wise investment choices with their purchases.
The first modification I need to address is the exhaust. EGTs are already getting unmanageable with the stock exhaust (gee, big surprise!) and the Diamond Eye exhaust is sitting in the corner of the shop just waiting to get installed. We'll do a few runs just to see how the exhaust system fared and then move on to more exciting modifications. I still haven't made a decision on what intake setup I want to run, so that'll have to be addressed when I have time.
We are going with the smaller injectors for a couple reasons. First, I got them at a really good price because they still had stock nozzles on them, but more importantly it was because I really want to see just what is actually capable with a good street injector and how well the existing induction system holds up with the added fuel. We'll be datalogging everything to see how the stock HPOP holds up under the added demands of the larger injectors, along with fuel pressure changes with the stock fuel system. We'll make the necessary modifications to the fuel system (banjo bolts, fuel spring) and then retest. Finally, we'll upgrade the HPOP and retest. Again, we'll datalog everything and see how everything holds up.
Since there seems to a number of trucks that are getting "close to 500HP" on stock injectors, I don't think 525HP on 175's is an unreasonable goal. Since the 6.0L tends to (conservatively) make about 3HP per cc (405 HP at 135cc) it would stand to reason that 175cc injectors would (again, conservatively) produce in the area of 525HP. If I rated it more aggressively at the 434HP I am currently making (with basically no mods to speak of), that would put the HP per cc at 3.215 and yield in the area of 560HP with 175cc injectors. Of course, this is all armchair engineering and I fully understand the reality of the situation may be completely different, but I'm still confident that 525HP is not an unreasonable expectation. We'll see soon enough, though.
Mod progressions are planned as follows:
- Base runs
- Exhaust System
- Banjo Bolts and "Blue" Spring
- 175cc Injectors w/Stock Nozzles
- Adrenaline HPOP
- 175cc Injectors w/80% Nozzles
- 190cc Injectors w/100% Nozzles
That's about it for now.
Last edited by Power Hungry; 03-07-2012 at 11:11 AM.
#5
03-07-2012, 11:33 AM
Diesel Bomber
#6
03-07-2012, 12:37 PM
I agree, I love how you're doing this with such a logical approach. Please don't take my questions as a "question to your abilities" or anything of the nature. I just like understanding the reasoning behind things, and you've explained everything very well. Thanks for taking the time to share all of the info here with us as well.
I'm sure you've read the injector comparison test on PSA done by RCD, regarding the 175's with stock nozzles and larger nozzles right? What were your thoughts on that?
I'll be interested to see what you make for power doing those injectors on stock turbo. I'm going to be the devils advocate and say you wont make more than 500, but would be impressed if you did!
If your math is somewhat right, it should be even more, since most have found that stock injectors can't even flow the 135cc they're rated at.
I'm very interested to see what happens with the HPOP upgrade myself. You've already put down some impressive numbers with that truck for the few mods done, and best yet, you even have track times to back up your claims! Love it!
I'm sure you've read the injector comparison test on PSA done by RCD, regarding the 175's with stock nozzles and larger nozzles right? What were your thoughts on that?
I'll be interested to see what you make for power doing those injectors on stock turbo. I'm going to be the devils advocate and say you wont make more than 500, but would be impressed if you did!
If your math is somewhat right, it should be even more, since most have found that stock injectors can't even flow the 135cc they're rated at.
I'm very interested to see what happens with the HPOP upgrade myself. You've already put down some impressive numbers with that truck for the few mods done, and best yet, you even have track times to back up your claims! Love it!
#7
03-07-2012, 01:03 PM
To be honest, I have not read RCD's posts regarding the comparisons. Do you happen to have a link to the thread? Wouldn't mind reading it.
I've always been one of those curious minds who like to think a little outside the box and try stuff, well... just because. I also have the opinion that if I'm going to break something, it's going to be on my truck. Not that I'm begging for a blown engine or tranny, but better me than one of our customers. I need to know what the limitations are so we know what is reasonably safe. So, we'll build it up a little at a time and see where it takes us.
I've always been one of those curious minds who like to think a little outside the box and try stuff, well... just because. I also have the opinion that if I'm going to break something, it's going to be on my truck. Not that I'm begging for a blown engine or tranny, but better me than one of our customers. I need to know what the limitations are so we know what is reasonably safe. So, we'll build it up a little at a time and see where it takes us.
#8
03-07-2012, 01:38 PM
Bill,
Independent Injector Comparison - PowerStrokeArmy
It's interesting. I of course take everything I read/see with a grain of salt until I can wrap my own head around it, but it's worth reading. Page 3 has a video. Basically they're trying to say a stock nozzle injector will only flow what a stock injector is, despite the size of the body. So they show 175's with a 75% nozzle against a 175 with a stock nozzle. According to their test the 175 with the stock nozzle flows... 135cc's... same as stock.
Body size is the volume the injector can hold
nozzle size is what the injector can flow... in theory it makes sense, though as you read through the thread you'll see there seems to be some unanswered questions. I just wanted to see what your opinion was on it. I'm all for good discussion. I don't think what was shown can be simplified the way it was... too many other things going on at once during an injection event to make it that watered down, but what do I know?
It's really a shame more shops don't operate the way you guys do... too many let their customers be the guinea pigs.
Independent Injector Comparison - PowerStrokeArmy
It's interesting. I of course take everything I read/see with a grain of salt until I can wrap my own head around it, but it's worth reading. Page 3 has a video. Basically they're trying to say a stock nozzle injector will only flow what a stock injector is, despite the size of the body. So they show 175's with a 75% nozzle against a 175 with a stock nozzle. According to their test the 175 with the stock nozzle flows... 135cc's... same as stock.
Body size is the volume the injector can hold
nozzle size is what the injector can flow... in theory it makes sense, though as you read through the thread you'll see there seems to be some unanswered questions. I just wanted to see what your opinion was on it. I'm all for good discussion. I don't think what was shown can be simplified the way it was... too many other things going on at once during an injection event to make it that watered down, but what do I know?
It's really a shame more shops don't operate the way you guys do... too many let their customers be the guinea pigs.
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03Powerstroke (03-07-2012)
#9
03-07-2012, 01:40 PM
Diesel Bomber
#10
03-07-2012, 01:49 PM
I just bought another spare FICM this week, with intentions of getting it tuned. It's sitting at home waiting for my repair job first, gonna test it on the truck to make sure it works, then off to Bill, at least that's what I'm hoping!
