Got to love Craig's list! I just scored on a factory benz engine manual, performance manual, and valve adjust wrenches-100 bucks! And the best part was the guy lives 5 blocks from me, talk about a small world!

 

That is a score! The wrenches alone cost close to that on eBay...

 

Great thread guys! And great pics FTE! Really helps!

Been reading here and other forums about you guys and your labors... troubles? Anyway, I am trying to decide between the GM 4.3L V6 and the OM617 for either a Cherokee/Wagoneer or the Grand versions. Pluses and minuses on both sides. I do not have you guys' skill and experience with fabricating. I have owned several diesels.. 6.5, 6.2 and currently a 5.9 CTD. Love diesel! Which is why I want to do a diesel project.

I only consider the Grand versions because they had a V8 option which I assume meant a stronger frame and larger engine compartment. I am concerned about the ~1000 extra lbs though. I guess it would then be about the same weight as the Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac or a Benz? What do you guys think? Would the Grand versions have fewer problems with engine mounting, clearance, steering and/or any other problems in general? Do the Grands have a frame or are they unibody as well?

Would any of you consider making me a set of motor mounts? I really like those you made FTE! And I am partial... since I own the 2002 CTD.

No hurry just yet... I have not bought a Jeep yet... I need to decide what I can do. Seems like a Grand with the 4.3L V6 might be better for me. I might could make my own mounts for that bomb! Currently, I am leaning on a Grand with the 4.3L... unless you guys tell me something different!

Just had another thought... too much free time I guess! What about a Cummins 4BTA in a Grand Cherokee/Wagoneer? Got to love those Cummins with that long stroke and ... all that low end torque! And they can be built to put out 400hp!

What do you guys think? Really need your input!

Sorry for all the questions but... I am such a NEWBIE!!!!! Anything you tell me will be helpful. Cheaper has really helped with the 4.3L and the bolt patterns... useful info to the max!

Thanks in advance!

 

Like I posted elsewhere, with only 85 HP the 4.3L would be underpowered for the Wagoneer. A Waggy weighs in at just over 4500 lbs. The cars these 4.3L V6s came out of weighed 3000-3500 lbs, tops. That also happens to be the stock curb weight for the mid-sized Cherokee, which is one of the reasons I chose the 4.3L for my Cherokee swap. That and the fact that AMC was installing other GM engines in the mid-sized Cherokees in 84-87 (the same timeframe that the 4.3L was being produced). Just seems fitting somehow...

Even an OM617 turbo with 120 HP would be marginal at best in an old FS Waggy. The 300 series MBs that the OM617s came in (like my 300CD) tip the scales right at 3500 lbs too. They aren't exactly a rocket sled, and adding 1000 lbs would slow one down considerably.

For a Waggy a 4BT would be a great option - and it is a swap that others have already done successfully - so there is info on the net about the process. Like you said, there is also a lot of aftermarket support and parts are available to build up the 4BT too.

A V8 diesel (5.7, 6.2, 6.5, 6.9, 7.3 - take your pick) would also be a good option and probably require the least fabrication of all - because you could buy the entire drivetrain as a set. Or better yet, buy an entire wrecked 4x4 pickup and you'd be sure to get all the parts you'll need for your swap in one fell swoop. If I was building a Waggy, that's probably the way I'd go. Most likely with a Ford 6.9 IDI, because they are so stupid simple and reliable - plus I already know a fair amount about them (I have one in my F250).

 

Some good thoughts Cheaper. Later last night and this morning (when my head started to clear) I was starting to think the same thing. That the OM617 and 4.3L would be fine for the Cherokees but something bigger would be needed for the Grands.

Thanks for the info, it realy does help! I need to decide what I want to do. Seems like I am narrowing it down to a Cherokee with the OM617 or a Grand with the Cummins 4BTA. The 6.2/6.5 is something that I had not thought about, and I do know those engines, but I am looking for higher mpg so, I will have to decide between the OM617 and 4BTA! Any thoughts on which would be easier/better?!

Clearance Issues
Has anyone considered/tried making an oil pan flatter and wider to solve clearance issues? I realize this would require making the oil pickup shorter. I ask because I am interested in max mpg and raising a vehicle creats more air drag. A slight nose down helps create the least drag.

FTE
After looking at the steering mods, just want to say thanks again for all the photos... worth a thousand words! Great idea and job on the steering fix! My 2002 Dodge CTD 4x4 has the same type of linkage (sorry, do not know the correct names for all the hardware).

Cheaper, FTE
Any thoughts on which installation would be easier/better? OM617 or 4.3L into a 87-91 Cherokee? Would FTE's steering linkage clear for the 4.3L?

Thanks in advance!

 

No steering linkage modifications necessary for the 4.3L. The only thing that had to be modified in the whole front suspension/steering was building the more open trac-bar bracket to put the motor mount inside it.

As to which would be easier, that's a tough call. With the OM617 the engine mounting and exhaust is much easier, but you have to fab the adapter to bolt the engine to the 700R4, and modify the steering for oil pan clearance.

Your idea of a modified oil pan has been (sorta') kicked around before. A dry-sump system for the OM617 would probably work just fine, but then you still need to find a good location at the right height for a large oil reservior. The extreme drop pitman arm solution seems to be working well so far for benzer1, it just looks kinda' scary.

 

Thanks for the complements! This engine swap has definetly been one of the most challenging ones I have done, that said I am already dreaming about the next! I guess it's an illness! I am thinking Ranger/OM617/T5 2wd. The 4bt route requires (imo) a full frame instead of unibody due to the extra weight plus vibration. Also it is a tall motor. Going with a 2wd takes the steering issue away if you choose a rear steer vehicle, then the front oil sump clears fine.

 

I concur! That's why a 4BT would never work in a XJ Cherokee.

However, the SJ (full size) Cherokee/Wagoneer has a full frame and an engine bay that is larger in every dimension - including height. They are sized for the 360 and 401 V8s...

 

Yea, I guess I missed he was also considering a full sized waggy as well.

 

over on IFSJA.org there is a small group of guys that have installed 6.5's in their waggys/cheros. since the chevy diesels use smallblock motormounts, they get the kit from advanced adapters and droped it in. yea i know 6.5s arent normally wanted but it is a easy diesel conversion.