Cherokee OM617 Swap
 

Hello, My apologies to Vlado and Hulkgreen for hijacking your threads!!!!
Here are some pics I took after bolting the engine in. I am going to need a hood scoop. I had to locate the engine high to clear the panhard bar for the front diff. I fabricated the passenger side motor mount, the factory Benz one would not work. I bolted 1/4" plate to the engine, welded 1 1/4" square tubing to it, and welded a 10mm nut to the tubing. The nut sits on the factory Benz motor mount pad. The motor mount brackets are 4"angle iron, 1/4" thick. I still need to get a drop pitman arm. I modified the radiator support to accept the 4.0 radiator. The engine and trans are bolted together. The transfer case is in, driveshafts connected. I enlarged the fuel tank filler and connected the fuel lines. I am going to finish the shift linkages and start on the wiring tomorrow.

John

Nice handy work there forsure :U:

WOW!! I had no idea there was so much interference problems with the front suspension!

I guess I thought it would be more like the ill-fated Merce-Jeep (the MJ Comanche lost to Katrina). But, it appears that installation was 2-wheel-drive, and used rack and pinion steering:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y21...e/8ee8b015.jpg

Otherwise, he had no problems setting the engine down low enough to clear the hood.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y21...e/0babd886.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y21...e/6545df7e.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y21...e/20cafd5d.jpg

Mark

That's a tight fit!!! It looks nice though. With the rack and pinion, he was able to keep the AC compressor. I could have gone a little lower, but wanted plenty of room between the engine and panhard bar. I shimmed the rear of the trans up about 1/8" to level out the engine/trans a little better. It's at about the same angle as it was with the gas engine.
I think a cowl induction scoop would look good on my Jeep.

John

Wow, it seems so weird to me that those old photos still pop up so many years later, lol. Ain't the internet great?!?

Engine Video
 

Here is a video of the engine running. I still need to finish the fan shroud, throttle linkage , and pitman arm, but i'm close!!!!!!!

Pitman Arm
 

Hello,
I received my drop pitman arm, it's still not low enough to clear the oil sump. Can I weld two pitman arms together? I have done some reading on this, and most people say don't even think about it! Anyone have any experience with this?

John

This is some good work, ive really been wanting to put an om617 turbo in my 89' cherokee. Of course since its gonna be a light wheeler a small lift shouldnt be to much trouble to get the engine to fit down under the hood.

Hey Benzer1,could you drop the steering gear to gain clearance? I am in the process to do the same swap,just waiting on my buddys cherokee for measuring. What trans are you using?

I am using the A904 torqueflite, the factory trans that was in the Jeep. I adapted it to the OM617. Good idea about lowering the steering box, I may look closer to see what it would take. I found a way to lower the engine down so the hood will close. I am going to run an electric fan, so the water pump pulley does not need to line up with the radiator. My front axle is close to the oil pan though, I need to take measurements to make sure the axle hits the stops before it hits the oil pan!!! Good luck with your project, let me know if you need anything.

John

Another option might be a box from a 2wd f150 I used one of those on another 4x4 conversions,they have a bunch of drop. Is that trans od? what ratio in the axles? As for the axel clearance for the oil sump have you considered the 2" polyurethane spacers for the front and shackles for the rear to lift it up? You can pick them up real cheap used or around $90 on ebay for the set... also what year jeep/trans I am new to jeeps

I really wanted to leave the ride height stock, but 2" would not be too bad, I may have to lift it a little. The A904 trans is only a three speed, but it's what I had. If I ever have to replace it, I will put a 700R4 in it. I am not sure what axle ratio I have, I will have to check. The transfer case is a NP228. Thanks for the tip on the F150 box, I will check it out. Maybe I could use a pitman arm from an F150 on my box, the splined end should be the same depending on the year. If not, maybe I can lower the steering box. My jeep is a 1985 cherokee(wagoneer) it originally had a 2.8 Chevy V6. The trans, transfer case, and diffs are all factory stock.

John

Sorry about all the questions,I just found your threads from sept. The f150 box has a real long shaft,probably 6in drop or so. I sourced one off a 70s 2wd.Thanks for the help

I decided to go with a hood scoop. If I set the engine low enough to clear the hood, the front axle will hit the bottom of the engine before it hits the stop bumpers. Even if I lift the vehicle, with the engine sitting lower, the axle will hit the engine before the stops. I guess I could put a lift on it and reduce the travel of the stops, but it's way easier to cut a hole in the hood and put a scoop on it.

John

Still figuring out witch way to go,looks like it will be a 87 & up cherokee with the aw4 od with lock-up converter. Just have to work through the electronics,supposedly they hav a stand alone computer. The guy with the comanche put a rack&pinion steering,may look into that so i can retain ac,will see as I am in the infant stages. Just got the benz last week so it isnt apart yet,looking for doner rig #2,fun stuff!!

Good luck with it FTE!!! Let me know if you need any pics or anything. I ended up welding the two pitman arms together so it hangs low enough to clear the oil pan. I was a little nervous about welding it, but I used up six rods and got good penetration, I don't think it's going anywhere. The frame is in the way of lowering the steering box, my only other option would be to get a different box. If this does not work out, I will probably swap steering boxes, or put a rack & pinion in it. I may have it driveable this weekend, just a few small items to finish, and put the pitman back on after it cools. I wrapped it in fiberglass insulation so it would cool nice and slow.

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The AW4 does have a stand alone controller. My friend has a Commanche with a 4.0 auto. I'm not sure which trans it is, but the throttle position sensor failed and the trans would not shift. I would go with a 700R4 if you can, They only need 12 volts to one pin for lockup, and the parts are much cheaper and more available than the AW4. You would need a different transfer case or an adapter plate for the transfer case to the 700R4

Thanks for the update,good luck with the steering,I did some similar welding on some steering arms with good results. Good info on the 700r4 did not know, maybe I will expand my search parameters.Keep me posted on your first drive.

Maiden Voyage
 

Took the Merjeep on it's maiden voyage tonight, she runs pretty good. It's amazingly quiet with the straight pipe exhaust. I still need to wire the relay for the electric fan, and disconnect the ALDA. The hood needs to be cut and I need to order the scoop. Other than that, it's pretty close to being done. The pitman arm stayed in one piece too, so i'm happy about that.

John

cool! did you take off the rack limiter yet? just be very careful with that steering arm, its probably only gonna break at the worst possible time :o

i noticed mine was really quiet inside with my strait pipe stack too.

What is a rack limiter?

Hey Benzer1

I have asked on the mercedes forum and they said ..... removal or disconnecting the alda is NOT a good idea..... it will seriously diminish the longevity of your diesel engine !!

It would be a shame to spend all the time and money to swap ONLY to shorten the life of your engine ; besides the ALDA won't gain only miniscule power gains !! HARDLY WORTH IT !!! ( IMHO )

[QUOTE=hulkgreen;446670]Hey Benzer1

I have asked on the mercedes forum and they said ..... removal or disconnecting the alda is NOT a good idea..... it will seriously diminish the longevity of your diesel engine !!

It would be a shame to spend all the time and money to swap ONLY to shorten the life of your engine ; besides the ALDA won't gain only miniscule power gains !! HARDLY WORTH IT !!! ( IMHO )[/QUOTE

The guys on one of the Benz forums told me the same thing. I still have the ALDA on the IP. I still have the switchover valve too, so it won't be too hard to hook it back up. I am going to bypass the EGR though, I did that on my SDL and it has more power and gets better mileage.
I still have to get the oil pressure and temp sending units working. The adapter for the oil pressure gauge should be here tomorrow. I installed the gas engine temp sender near the water outlet, but it's not working. I need to dig a little and see what's going on.
Thanks Hulkgreen,
John

removing the alda will get you more power, and no it will not diminish engine life. most of the people on the benz forums prefer that everything stays stock, because mercedes designed it to work like that and thats the best way. personally its just an iron head IDI 2valve inline diesel engine. they run forever, but you can make decent power with them. my alda is disconnected, i removed it right off the top of the pump. the rack limiter is a small arm with a threaded end and nut to limit the rack travel and fuel output.

heres the guide to adjustments etc ;)

PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum - View Single Post - IP Full Load Adjustment 617 Turbo

Hood Shenanigans
 

I put the hood on tonight, no need for a scoop. I cut the inner support brace out where the valve cover sticks up and the hood closes!! The engine is still touching the hood skin, I am going to try to gently relieve it with a round pipe or something. Either way, you can hardly tell there is even a bump there. If I knew it would be this close, I would have lowered the engine a 1/4" or so. Oh well, I really don't want to fool with it now. I reconnected the ALDA, I am not really concerned with power anyway. I thought the ALDA enriched the fuel based on boost, would that not give you more power than without it?

John

without the alda it just enriches without waiting for boost from the leaner running.

Good stuff!! I was doing some measuring on my buddys cherokee yesterday and it looked like the hood would close (barely) just missing that brace if I welded flat motor mount plates on the bottom of the frame rails. Still kind of guessing the fore/aft position with bell adapter. Looks like that also keeps the crank at the same altitude as the 4.0. His jeep has a lift so most steering issues clear. By the way.is there a coolant drain plug for the block? Its getting abnormally COLD here (usually the dogs water never freezes here) I dont want to risk freezing my new project. I drained as far as I could with hoses but there has got to be more in there. One more,I cut the exhaust out are those cataletic converters half way back?? Can`t wait to hear about your first road trip!!

i would just fill the engine up with 100% antifreeze, it wont freeze that way

No kidding!! still want to know if there is a drain,you know to flush the old crap out before contaminating the new!

:tu: Excactly! Don't disconnect the ALDA- thats your fuel enrichment! It's proofed million times as a good and reliable device.

Don't use 100% antifreeze. :nope:

50% has better antifreeze capabilities than 100%!!!

4.0
 

If the Jeep you are swapping the 617 in had the 4.0, make sure to check where the oil sump will sit in relation to the trans bellhousing. My Wagoneer had the 2.8 V6, so the trans sits farther forward in the engine bay than the Jeeps with the 4.0. If my engine was any more rearward, the sump would hit the panhard bar and front diff. If the Jeep is lifted, that will help. Just make sure you compensate for suspension travel too. If something hits that cast aluminum pan on the 617, it's over.

John

I drove the MerJeep to work today, first trip going that far(12 miles one way). Last night I flushed some seafoam through it and changed the fuel filters, the engine ran quite a bit smoother. On the way home from work, it ran rougher and was ticking. I am going to do a valve adjustment tomorrow and see if that helps. It may just need to be ran for a while, I don't know how long the car sat before I got it. All in all, i'm very happy with it so far. Thanks again to all of you for your assistance, I appreciate it.

John

BOOM!!!!
 

I adjusted the valves tonight, the engine purrs like a kitten. Took it for a drive and something broke in the trans. I think it's the adapter ring between the torque converter and the engine. It's too cold to mess with it now. If it's repairable, I will weld pads on the converter to match the Benz flywheel pattern. That should be much stronger than the ring. If not, I will either run the Benz auto, or find a 700R4 for it. I guess I found the weak link........

John

shitty deal man, trial and error tho i guess. gonna have to be real carefull welding onto that torque converter too :humm: how thick was the old adapter ring? got any pics of it?

John i hate to hear you have that kind of problem so soon after the build but that is what's all about.You do your homework,design,build and trial than sometimes it work and sometimes dont.keep us posted on what you find for future builders so they know what not to use or maybe someone will have better idea how to make it better.Just don't give up on it yet.:humm:

The ring was cut out of the gas engine flexplate, here is a pic of it. It's about 1/8" thick. I welded studs to it to adapt the triangle flexplate of the Benz engine to the torque converter.I am not sure if this is what failed yet. It's either this or the triangle flexplate. If it warms up enough, I will start tearing into it.

John

i have a feeling its that ring that failed, those bolts look like an easy failing point. i wonder if you can drill the holes and put the bolts through both ways? might need to grind the heads down abit before hand but i think it sould work ;) worst case make a new plate out of 1/4" and put all the bolts through it insted of welding to it ;)

I was going to drill holes in the ring and bolt through with nuts, but there would have been no way to hold them from both sides once the engine and trans were together. If the ring failed, I will probably make some steel blocks and weld them to the torque converter in the pattern of the Benz flywheel. That would be much more stout. I was originally going to go that route, but was afraid I would damage the lockup friction disc, it's behind the front of the torque converter. The heat from welding may damage it. I would rather lose lockup then bust another ring. It may be fine anyway. I won't really know till I get the trans out.

John

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My neighbor helped me wrestle the Jeep back into the garage. It's definitely the adapter ring. The triangle flexplate is broken as well. I do have an extra flywheel for a 617, I may drill holes in it to match the existing pads on the converter, then I would not have to risk damaging the torque converter with heat. I thought about this idea before I built the Jeep, but was afraid I might burn the pump in the trans out because the 617 flywheel is thick and rigid, it would not be able to flex at all. It sure as hell would not break though!!!! I will know more when I get the trans back out.

John

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I dropped the trans tonight, looks like the torque converter and flexplate were too close together.It was the ring that was bolted the the torque converter that failed. None of the welds or studs broke, the whole ring broke into multiple pieces. When I made the ring, I think it added too much thickness to the assembly.The damage was not too bad, the inside of the bellhousing was scratched up, but no holes. I think my best bet is to weld new pads on the TC and get another flexplate. I'm kind of nervous about drilling through the thick flywheel and bolting the TC to it because it would not be able to flex. I don't know if it needs to flex, manual trannies obviously don't, but I don't want to take a chance. Does anyone have an OM617 flexplate they don't need?

John

Hey John, I have been doing alot of thinking about the same adapter issues concerning the torque conv.I think I will cut the end out of the benz converter,true it up on the lathe, then index it to the jeep converter. That way it should be strong enough while using the existing benz bolts, plus it may make it easier to keep the jeep conv true to the crank. I noticed you mentioned your conv was a lock up. I thought you were using a non-od trans. I assumed the only jeep trans with lock-up was the aw4. I hope to get the benz pulled soon so I can cut the benz t-converter apart and engineer the flex plate adapter. I will take lots of pics. My dad has the lathe but lives 250mi away, could take a while.

Chrysler has had lockup transmissions since 1978. Mine is a 1985 A 904 Torqueflite. It is a three speed but has lockup, it's an odd duck. It's a Chrysler trans with a Chevy 2.8 bellhousing pattern. If you don't have a lockup converter (or want one) maybe your converter idea would work. They are about the same diameter. A converter shop might do it for you if you have one nearby, they might even be able to make it lockup.The local one here would not touch mine. Good luck with your project!
I will probably start on the converter today.

John

Hey John,maybe I didn't explain my idea completely. I plan on cutting the whole back off the benz conv,(the side/end that bolts to the flex plate) and using that as the adapter between the jeep conv and benz flex plate. Once I cut the benz conv apart I will chuck it up in the lathe and index it to the jeep bolt pattern and snout on the conv. That way I don't mess with any of the benz flywheel/flex plate bolt-up, balance etc. I should not have any issues strength since I am using the factory benz set-up. Hope that helps! I don't know if you have the benz conv , my trans is junk so I don't mind cutting up mine.