the dreaded powerstroke no start cold
 

One of our deliver trucks is a 2002 f250 with a 7.3. If the temperature gets down to 60 it is almost impossible to start unless the block heater is plugged in and if it goes below 50 it will not start at all without the heater. I have checked the glow plug system all possible ways. I checked the relay and am getting power through it. I pulled the harness at the valve cover and checked each with the ohm meter and fed power to each one through an ammeter and put a meter between the relay and harness and the power drain is correct. The intake grid heater relay has been replaced and the power drain is good there also. I have replaced the IPR valve and ICP sensor and CPS. There were 2 bad injectors that were bad and have been rebuilt and all injector o rings replaced.The original engine had low compression in #8 and a bad HPOP so a used engine was installed. The original engine had the same cold start problem before the HPOP went bad. When the temp is warm enough to start without the block heater it has a bad miss until it warms up and no smoke but with the heater plugged in it runs smooth from startup. There are no codes now. I have been pulling my hair out trying to figure this one out.

could it be a bad ground between the engine and chassis?

I don't think so. I cleaned all the grounds when I put in the used engine. I could do a ground voltage test to double check though.

Dang Grady that's crazy, on second thought probably not a ground if the current is up where its supposed to be at the glow plugs.
Could it be fuel lift pump related because it did this with the old engine to?

When the HPOP was going bad it acted like a fuel problem so I checked the fuel pressure and it was 60 psi I think. It has been a little while since I checked so I can't swear to it being 60 but I checked it against the specs at the time and it was right. I also dropped the tank and cleaned and checked the pickup. All was well in the tank also. It seems if it was a fuel pressure problem plugging in the block heater wouldn't help but as long as it is plugged in it starts fine.

its the ecm ford needs to take care of it uncle had same prob for fixed it 5 or 6 times they eventually put a new ecm in it it had something to do with the plug module

We have had it checked by one dealer and a local shop and they said the ecm checked OK but it is worth another try. My impression was that the dealer we took it to didn't know a thing about diesels.

Does the 2002 have a wait to start light? How long do you have to wait and is it cycling the correct amount of seconds?

Yes it does. It also has a light for the intake grid heater. The glow plug light stays on for usually 6 to 12 seconds but the relay keeps the glow plugs on after the light goes off for up to 2 minutes depending on the temp. The intake grid light stays on for about 10 seconds longer than the glow plug light.

I don't know enough about the powerstroke to help, maybe you could post something on this thread:
https://www.dieselbombers.com/ford-t...pecialist.html

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Grady I checked on the last activity from Mike the master Tech and it was back in October. I don't know if he is still doing the free assistance.

Anybody got any ideas about this powerstroke?

I had a similar problem did all the same testing...i had no codes, i ended up pullin the idm driver and doing the ohms test from the driver plug. everything was fine, replaced idm (injection Driver Module) driver and it fixed the problem if you want to test from the driver all the way to the injectors, follow this link GB Remanufacturing - Tech Bulletin #103

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btw the idm location.....remove inner fender driver side....sick your arm on in there....youll feel it lol it is closer to the firewall tho...pretty high up on the fender.

I am about to go on the road to make some deliveries and will be off line till next week. Thanks for the suggestions so far. I will do some checking as soon as I can.

the deals told my uncle the same that ecm and module where fine they eventually said they were wrong but he stayed on em it was under warrent and they don't like spending time tracking down stuff like this under warrenty we all know this yet we have no choice but to keep going back we love our truck when they are running proper

heres a question, were the glow plugs carried over from the old motor? or are they new? or ???? i know you said you checked the harness and the light stays on for up to 2 minutes depending on temp but that doesnt mean anything if the gp's are bad, that just means the controllers good and the relay's good and the harness is good

I put an ammeter between the GPR and the harness to test the glow plug current draw. The draw was correct and the relay is activating properly. I tested the glow plugs before installing them in the used engine by putting power to them and watching them heat. I wish it was a simple glow plug problem. I have been on the road and since it is the truck my boss drives I haven't had time to pull the injector module plug and do the pin out test yet but it is my next test.

i think im having the same problem you are with my buddy's truck. glow plugs, relay and wiring harness is new and the controller is good but they still will not heat up. i was told there could be a fuseable link from the controller to the gp relay, ill let you know what i find. :c:

The glow plugs on ours are heating. It is not possible for them to draw the correct amount of current without heating.

im assuming oil level is good?

Yes it is. IO just checked it yeaterday. We are running delo 400 oil. The engine always starts good warm and as long as the block heater is plugged in it starts fine.

Updates??

hmm, when it does start when its cold does it skip or lope or run rough for a second? :humm:

It sure does. Sometimes it takes a few miles to start running smooth. I have thought about pulling the valve covers and doing a compression test.

now see most lopes on startup that i have encountered have been glow plug issue's because of cold cylinders or the ebp valve. have you changed the icp sensor or the cam sensor?

I have changed the IPR the ICP sensor and the cam sensor. I also cleaned the pipe that feeds the back pressure sensor and at one time had the EBP valve harness disconnected. I guess when I find out what is really wrong it will seem simple like "how could I have missed that" but for now it feels like beating my head against the wall.

throttle pedal malfunction? causes a dead pedal at times and a rough running condition :humm:

It isn't having any throttle response problems. The only other thing that has happened is with the rain we had lately is when going down the road it will act like it is dead for a second and buck one time and then it is ok for a while. It has only done that when it is raining.

right that's what a bad gas pedal on these would do, eventually it would get worse and worse. its just a thought though, i really dont see how it would effect the starting but im only 17 i dont know too too much about these haha

maybe something with the hpop?

That'd be an issue unrelated to starting.

Just curious, how long since the oil has been changed?

And I hate to say it, but I'm pretty sure the injectors are gettin weak. The poppets are allowin cold heavy oil to push past. It'll still pass tests, and won't throw codes, but it'll do what you're sayin...

Like this...
http://s249.photobucket.com/albums/gg230/freedomguard4u_photo/?action=view&current=MVI_2576.flv

It has been about 4000 miles but it did the same thing from the day I put the used engine in with new oil and the old engine did it also. I used the injectors from the old engine but I did change the o-rings while they were out so I guess that is possible. I hope not since until the spring when the diving industry picks up and business gets better there is no money to spend on a set. We will just have to plug the block heater in until then.

If you don't wanna keep the block heater plugged in and run up the light bill, there are heating elements that replace the dip stick. I'd think they'd use less electricity than the block heater, and they'd keep the oil warm. Since the issue is caused by cold oil.

The power the heater uses hasn't changed the light bill very much and it only gets plugged in at night or if the truck is going to sit long enough to get cold.

The only time I had that issue was lettin the truck sit over 12 hours or so. 8-10 day at work was usually ok.

That kind of sounds like the symptoms of ours. If it is injectors it will have to wait until the diving business picks up in the spring. At least it starts good when the block heater is plugged in.

did you replace all the copper o-rings on the bottom of the injectors or check to see if they were all there??? :humm:

Sure did. I put all new o-rings and copper washers. I used the injectors from the old engine.

were they original injectors? i think we may have found the problem here with the one thing that carried over from the other engine...

Beat ya... :moon:

It is starting to sound like a real possibility.

internal injector leak, lots of blue smoke when it does fire when its cold?

Before I changed the engine it smoked bad when it started but new o-rings on the injectors fixed that. Now it doesn't have any excessive smoke when starting.