12 Valve 2nd Gen Dodge Cummins 94-98 Discussion of 12 Valve 5.9 Liter Dodge Cummins Diesels with P7100 Injection Pumps

Timing

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Mar 10, 2010 | 11:24 AM
  #1  
RIGGLE21's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Diesel Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 174
Likes: 1
From: Indiana
Default Timing

when timing is changed to say 16*.....does it inject fuel sooner or later than stock
 
Reply
Old Mar 10, 2010 | 11:28 AM
  #2  
94 12valve's Avatar
Diesel Bomber
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,504
Likes: 157
From: Pylesville, Maryland
Default

sooner, you will be injecting fuel 16* before top dead center
 
Reply
Old Mar 10, 2010 | 11:32 AM
  #3  
RIGGLE21's Avatar
Thread Starter
|
Diesel Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 174
Likes: 1
From: Indiana
Default

thats what i thought wasn't for sure though.... Thanks
 
Reply
Old Mar 15, 2010 | 12:57 PM
  #4  
glfredrick's Avatar
Diesel Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 238
Likes: 34
Default

Additionally, the spray cone of the injector will be wider as it injects sooner. That also plays in with injectors with the 145* or 155* spray pattern. With a cupped piston dome, the spray needs to be inside the cup not washing down the walls of the cylinder. Getting the spray to just the right spot helps make power and changes burn tendencies. As timing is set closer to 5*, you almost get a stream effect instead of a cone.

Boosting timing to high levels (above 16* in this case) is probably not needed or condusive to making power unless or until the rpms of the engine are turned up past 4000, then, like any engine, the fuel needs to hit the cylinder on time for the piston to travel to the top of the stroke so it can light at the right time and drive the piston back down.
 
Reply
Old Mar 15, 2010 | 03:48 PM
  #5  
12valvetater's Avatar
Diesel Bomber
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,474
Likes: 35
From: Pennsylvania
Default

Timing does not affect the angle of spray.
 
Reply
Old Mar 15, 2010 | 08:14 PM
  #6  
glfredrick's Avatar
Diesel Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 238
Likes: 34
Default

Originally Posted by 12valvetater
Timing does not affect the angle of spray.
Nope -- you are right. That is controlled by the angle of the holes. But timing does effect the width of the cone as it strikes the piston bowl. The closer the piston when the injector pops, the narrower the cone, even though the angles remain constant. Get timing too far advanced for the FPS speed of the piston and you end up spraying the cylinder walls instead of the piston bowl -- partly why there are some issues in running marine injectors with the 155* spray pattern.

Fogrive my ultra-crude Paint drawing, but it should help to illustrate.

Name:  spraypattern.jpg
Views: 101
Size:  9.1 KB
 
Reply
Old Mar 15, 2010 | 08:34 PM
  #7  
12valvetater's Avatar
Diesel Bomber
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,474
Likes: 35
From: Pennsylvania
Default

This is also true, but at higher rpm the increase in timing will help to keep the fuel in the bowl.
 
Reply
Old Mar 15, 2010 | 08:40 PM
  #8  
glfredrick's Avatar
Diesel Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 238
Likes: 34
Default

Originally Posted by 12valvetater
This is also true, but at higher rpm the increase in timing will help to keep the fuel in the bowl.
Yup. When things start to happen faster, you have to advance to get everything "done" on time in the firing cycle, but with our low rpm engines, that point comes much lower in the advance scale than it might with an 8000 rpm gas motor (plus all the issues involved with a direct-fire diesel versus a spark-ignited gas mixture that complicate the issue somewhat).
 
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
quiksilver1j
1st Generation Dodge Cummins 89-93
1
Jul 30, 2015 12:41 PM
Stox5225
12 Valve 2nd Gen Dodge Cummins 94-98
22
May 14, 2015 05:17 PM
SMatyac
12 Valve 2nd Gen Dodge Cummins 94-98
2
Nov 15, 2014 07:35 PM
91 7three
Ford 83-94 6.9 and 7.3L General
1
Nov 14, 2014 10:37 PM
jjbced
Chevy/GMC 6.2L and 6.5L
5
Oct 26, 2014 09:09 PM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:51 AM.