Hey guys, I need some advice on building a safe and reliable 400whp. I have done some searching and I have an idea on what I need, but I would like to get some clarification on brands and certain parts as I am new to the VP44 trucks. Here is some background on the build that may help. The truck I am modding is my grandpa's 2001 24V Cummins 47re auto 2wd. He bought the truck with 19,000 miles on it in 2002 and he has always wanted to modify it, but the money was not there for him to do so, well in 2012 I got a significant raise at work and I have been buying him the parts he needs for the power he has always wanted. As with any build it started small (250whp) and has grown to be a decent power build (400whp). He got the truck dynoed a few months back and put down 245whp and 550wtq with a MBRP 4", Edge EZ, and S&B CAI. By the way, the truck is only driven back and forth to town, he no longer tows anything. Here are a few things I have on the list already, but feel free to add, remove, or change anything you guys think is necessary. Thanks in advance for the help and advice.

100-125hp injectors (unsure on brand)
shift kit for the 47re
Edge juice programmer
Raptor 100 LP
Turbo upgrades??

 

first thing you need to do is build the transmission.

dodge automatics are junk and just can't hold any power upgrades.

that thing needs a triple disc converter, billet flexplate, billet input and output shafts, and a valve body.

next get yourself gauges.
EGT, boost, fuel pressure, trans temp.

edge comp for fueling box
63/68/14 turbo.

either 7x.010 or 7x.0095 injectors from DFI

should hit your target power and then some if he turns up the comp all the way...

turn it down to a mild level and it will be much smoother but still be in your target power range without pushing the injection pump as hard.

as for lift pump...FASS 95 or 150.


AVOID PUREFLOW/AIRDOG/RAPTOR

their products are junk now a days and they are lying to their customers telling them the problem is fixed when it is not...see new posts daily on cumminsforum about failed pureflow products...

their pumps leak and their regulators are bad and can't hold steady pressure to save their life...

go with FASS and you won't have to worry about your pump.

 

I may not know VP44 trucks very well, but I didn't think the 47re was much different from the 48re and I know the 48re will hold 400whp with just a shift kit with no issues. Billet inputs etc is usually for 500whp and more in my crowd. I appreciate the advice, but my grandpa is only gonna driving on the street with this truck. He will never take it to the strip and with only 2wd and street tires a boosted launch would just result in a long burnout not broken parts. I have an AirDog 2 on my truck and it holds fuel pressure just fine at WOT just for the record. As for the other upgrades you mentioned, would the 63mm turbo be necessary or could I opt out for HX40 or similar? I know several 12v guys use HX40 or similar turbos for their mild builds. Also, for the injectors, I am not use to the "% over" or "LPM" measurement system yet, can you break that down for me on the injector sizes? Thanks for the help.

 

47re isn't as strong as the 48re.

the automatic transmissions in second gens are junk. as for the shafts they typically break when people forget to take the trans out of lockup and let it shift under lockup.

at absolute bare minimum I would do a torque converter and valve body (we need those just to add a fueling box to these trucks without breaking the auto trans)


as for airdogs: Please beware of pureflow products, including airdog and raptor - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum

I have an old airdog that is over 4 years old and it is flawless, but they got bought out by a different company and ever since then they have been running that company into the ground and have absolutely no quality control at all.

don't say you haven't been warned about them when you choose to ignore the advice... and are you willing to risk a $1200 injection pump on a pump that may or may not hold pressure and fail quickly???

vp44s are VERY sensitive to fuel pressure. starve them and they will fail in a heartbeat. run low pressure to them and they will will overheat their electronics. just keep that in mind. the vp44 is the most sensitive injection pump cummins has ever made. cp3's and p7100s are very forgiving of abuse, vp44s will leave you stranded if you abuse them.

hx40 would not be on my list of turbos to use.

they lag like pigs and have very weak shafts. very laggy due to the over-sized turbine housing (16cm^2) lag + automatic is not a good mix.

also they are not very tolerant to barking the turbo. if you insist on the hx40, get a blow off valve to prevent barking it or you can end up breaking the shaft.

last we have injectors.

hp ratings are never accurate and a poor way to size them so the vp guys go by hole count x hole size. so a 7x.010 is 7 holes, and ten thousands of an inch in size of each hole.

but a 7x.095 is typically referred to as a 100-125hp injector (depends on if it is VCO or SAC nozzles)
7x.010 SAC is typically referred to as a 150hp injector.

I run 6x.013 SAC injectors in mine (slightly larger than a 7x.012 with a more concentrated spray pattern) which can be called a 240hp+ competition injector which is pretty much the largest you can run on a vp44 before you start losing power from sucking the pump dry too quick and need a higher flowing injection pump like a monster stage 2+ or a p7100 conversion.

 

I appreciate the warning for the Pureflow products, because I was unaware they had been bought out. I have had my Airdog 2 system for almost 2 years, so it seems I got one of the last good ones. It is always unfortunate to see a good company go down. I will invest in the torque converter and the valve body for the build. I was unaware HX40 turbos were such a bad choice, so I will look elsewhere for a turbo. I know using the old "hp" rating is not as accurate and a lot of people seem to frown upon that system now, but I'm trying to figure out the new system little by little. So I was correct on injector size for the build and do you think the 7x .095 injectors will spool the 63/68/14 well enough to keep lag to a minimum while keeping EGTs in check. Sorry for all the questions, but I want to build a truck my grandpa can enjoy and have confidence that it won't break on him.

 

This is a very good Valve body upgrade/shift kit

Read , Install this
Overdrive Valve Body Kit

Sureflow,Airdog,Raptor is junk

 

I would go with the 7x.010 myself...

get them from a reputable builder like DFI, and they will run very clean, likely give you a slight boost in fuel economy if you keep your foot out of it, and they will have no problem spooling that turbo.

in my builds, I would rather have most of my power coming from injectors rather than electronics.

that way when I turn my power down, I still have good power and my turbo(s) still spool(s) up fine without the electronics set to kill.

better to shoot for 500hp and fall short so you definitely meet your goal...

I shot for 600+hp and look where I landed (damn vp44 )

 

GSP7: Thanks for the link that looks like a good starting point for the trans upgrades, I will add it to my list.

Jigabop: I agree with using hard parts to make power and only using electronics to compliment them. I am using that principle on my own build, I am shooting for 900-950whp range and will prolly end up in the 800-850whp range once I get my dual fuelers and 100% over injectors (among other supporting mods), but from what I know so far I think I am going to shoot for 400whp with his truck and he said he will be happy with anything close to 350whp. So for the time being we have agreed to postpone his build and settle for bigger injectors and trans upgrades for now until I can put more money in it. Thank you for all the advice and I will update you on what setup I use and how much power the truck puts down on the next dyno run.

With all that being said my final question is how big of an injector can run on the stock turbo using only the edge EZ for electronics ?

 

plenty of people have ran a 7x.010 injector on the stock turbo.

as long as you have gauges, lift pump, and a boost elbow/j-hook for the stock turbo, you'll be fine with larger injectors.

 

Ok good to know I will have to start putting in orders soon. Are boost elbows available for the 2001 auto trucks? I thought they were only for the 98.5-00 trucks and the 01-02 manual trans. I will have to do some research on the j-hook upgrade (never heard of it before) Keep the information coming, in the next few days I will be a VP44 truck expert haha