5.9L 24V Performance Discussion of 24 Valve 5.9 Liter Dodge Cummins Diesels with VP44 Injection Pumps Related To Performance And Longevity

beating duramax's in workstock

  #1  
Old 08-19-2013, 04:13 PM
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Default beating duramax's in workstock

First of im gunna start by saying im getting real tired of getting 5th in workstock because of efi live'd cheeta turbo'd duramaxes, they arnt even 2.5 legal. I was wondering what i could do if i were to build another truck (besides building a duramax) to beat these trucks. i dont have a very big budget like 15k and thats including the cost of the truck and the parts to make it hold the power. any comments, suggestions or info is appreciated

this is one of my competitors before he had 2 cp3's
 

Last edited by Ratherbepulling; 08-19-2013 at 04:20 PM.
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Old 08-19-2013, 05:11 PM
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building a competitive pull truck on the cheap is not an easy thing to do...

your best friends are going to be high RPM, a lower gear, and high traction tires with a turbo you can stay on top of...

they grey dodge in your video f-ed up... he took too long of a gear and couldn't stay on top of the turbo because he lugged it...

you gotta stick to one gear because shifting is not an option, nor is lugging it...boosted launch in 5rd gear on a NV5600, or 4th gear on a NV4500 4x4 in low range and rev it out...

5k gsk on a 13mm p7100 with larger 6 hole injectors and 110# valve springs with upgraded pushrods, retainers and keepers... then get a S400 turbo well matched for the injector size and tune the pump for it...you will need to run 4-5krpm to hold speed and stay up on the turbo which is why the valve trains needs to be a primary focus in these types of events...it's gotta be upgraded to handle those kinds of RPMs... you're not gonna do that on stock springs and retainers....you can hit 4500rpm on stock retainers and keepers, but beyond that they need to be upgraded...

good luck building that + the cost of the truck for under 15k
 
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Old 08-20-2013, 04:17 PM
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My thinking for it was valvespirngs, pushrods, billet bridges, a cam (dont know which one) and port and polish it myself. my three main expenses will probly be the turbo, pump and clutch. As far as the turbo goes i saw in diesel power that fleece makes a 63mm holset but i dont know if its worth the 1,800 price tag,I usually just buy a pump someone else has built so what can i do to a stock 215 pump i got one for $350 at u-pull, dont know if thatl be enough fuel, and im torn between a southbend 3850 or a hmr pulling clutch, and for a truck i know where one is for 3200 with a bad 47re (snaped imput shaft) and the grey dodge is ziegler performance's truck its got a 62mm "hx35"
 

Last edited by Ratherbepulling; 08-20-2013 at 04:21 PM.
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Old 08-21-2013, 12:48 PM
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a 215 pump can be turned up quite a bit.

for vavlesprings and pushrods you can check out the thread I made about that...

just make sure the cam you run doesn't lift too might or those springs might not work as they may hit coil bind before the cam is done lifting. They are fine for stock to mild cams though...

as for the pushrods in the thread I posted, they will work either way! much better deal than hamiltons HD rods and they are custom made, not just sitting on a shelf.

crower makes both chromoly and titanium retainers if you pan on turning over 4500rpm. either should hold up to that. just make sure to get keepers than can hold up as well.

1800 for a 63 is highway robbery.

if you are going for 2.5 class, just go with an S400 like a 466. with a p7100 and some decent injectors + cranking high RPM you should be able to keep it spooled.
 
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Old 08-21-2013, 03:53 PM
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idk about the $1800 cost but i do like the fact that a fleece holset is stock apearing so i can pull stock and 2.5, how bad would a non vgt he351 with a billet wheel? i know s4's are nice but they limit your class, my current truck has a s466 on it and id have to say 2.6 is a money class that is if you dont have the money you get 8th behind the $120k trucks so that is my thought around building a workstock truck that i can bump up into 2.5 and try to make some extra $$$
 
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Old 08-21-2013, 08:09 PM
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im pretty sure fleeces cheetah 63 is a he351 bearaing housing with a hx40 shaft and a 63mm wheel. the cover, turbine housing and bearing housing pocket get worked over to accept the parts. i believe it turns out to be a 63/65/9
65 being hx40
9 being he351cw
and the compressor is a ? as to the app it came from.
machine work and piecing them together is why they cost so much. only the shell is O.E.

can you run an hx40 in work stock? it has a much larger turbine housing. ide go CNCing on that befor a 351. you can cram bigger parts in the larger frame. i would assume. use some s300 parts. get a 71 or 74mm turbine and a billet 63 compressor. machine bearing bores and do something with thrust. shaft will have to be very closley measured probably machined to work in the housing but in the end you would have a MUCH higher flowing turbo that looks stock.
 

Last edited by turbo2332; 08-21-2013 at 08:14 PM.
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Old 08-22-2013, 11:34 AM
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why not make a semi-hybrid turbo...

do a 60mm HX40 wheel on the compressor side, then do an hx40 turbine with a hx35 turbine housing or find a 12cm^2 housing that will fit on an hx turbo...essentially giving you a 60/65/12 instead of a 60/65/16 should spool much faster and hold stock appearance :thumbsup:

or just run the VGT... it is a "STOCK" turbo for dodge...so assuming you are allowed to use turbo's from different generations of the same make on your truck, you could run one of those?
 
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Old 08-23-2013, 08:49 AM
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well h1c's are cheap cause ther kinda out dated but they have similarities with a hx40 cause you can get a GDS 60mm upgrade and i think thats just a hx40 housing, wheel and center section plate. Then i can get a wide range of exhaust housings and a hx40 batmowheel will fit in it thats like a $900 60mm batmo

I would use a vgt but fleece says there vgt controller doesnt work with manual trucks, idk why

And GDS has a 60mm kit for the 35 but there arnt as many exhasust housing options and it would be a little more $$$ and it needs to be machined to exept the new wheel
 

Last edited by Ratherbepulling; 08-23-2013 at 09:02 AM.
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:18 PM
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you can get a standalone fully mechanical controller for the VGT. one of the guys in my chapter on cumminsforum has a 5spd 12v truck with a HE351VE on it and a mechanical controller for the vanes. looks like it has a wastegate actuator on it, but it actually moves the vanes rather than a gate puck.
 
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:03 PM
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if you want to compete you have to do machine work. a 63mm wheel is the limit, so thats on the list. she has to flow so a 12cm housing is gone. turbine should be as big as you can slam in a housing.
 

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