engine change now won't start
 

Hi. My uncle bought a 2004 Dodge dually diesel with no motor. He had a 2007 5.9cr in his garage. We rebuilt the motor, installed it and hooke everything up. it will crank but wont start, it acts like it wants to, but wont. cracked line at injector pump and it has flow, cracked line on return of common rail and got flow there, cracked the number one cylinder line and had fuel there, but it didn't spray or anything. We haven't tried clearing any codes or anything. We hope to do that next. but any advice would be great. Oh and he has not installed the intercooler and hoses yet. would that do anything?

thanks.

Jim:argh:

No for your final question! Not sure if the ecm has to be flashed. Which ecm did you use? The 04 will not work on an 07. If the key fob doesn't sink with the ecm it will not start. You may have to have it programmed at the dealer.

it is the 04 ecm. So we need a 07 ecm? we put a 05 motor in his 07 when this motor lost a head gasket and never had an issue. was the 04 different? just curious. plus this is a automatic truck and the motor was in a manual truck.

Early 04 was different This question would do better on one of the sites like competition diesel!

You have touse the ECU for the target truck, the 04. If you used the ECU and the harnesses from the 04 truck that is all good if the ECU and harnesses are good.

It should start and idle even though the fueling maps from an 04 into and 07 do not exactly match. The next question would be is the 04 actually an 04.5 or an 04?

Hit it with some carb cleaner or starting fluid and see if it will light off then go from there.

X2.
Need a little more in regards to diag to help. Are the injectors firing? Fuel pressure? Comm circuits functioning?
Which style injector connector are you using? Square or rectangle.

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ok thanks. didn't know we needed the ecu from 04

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ok. let me do this again. we are checking tomorrow the year of the ecm. we think it's the same year as the truck. I will get back to you with the exact info tomorrow. I want to thank all of you for your help.

jim

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Alright. I went and got all the years and crap. The motor is an 07, the truck is a 05 the date on the ecm is 7-16-04. The motor we put in the 07 dodge was suppose to be a 05 which is where this ecm came from.

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how would I check if injectors are firing?

What is the build date on the truck you are trying to put this engine in? That is what is important.

You cannot take an ECU from another platform and expect it to work correctly. I willrun the engine correctly but each ECU is VIN locked to the platform and has to communicate with other modules on the truck. It the VINs do ot match you will have issues.

If you are trying to put an MY05 ECU into an MY04 truck it will not work, too many differences between the platforms, protocols, and functionality. Even in MY's there are different revisions of the ECU that will make a difference. You need to match the ECU number to the range for the plaform or it will never work correctly.

As noted above I would be installing the ecm that was provided with the truck. Communication is a required item when considering all operating functions including security/skim.
To answer your question I use a amp clamp or a attenuated lead with my DSO to watch current ramp & voltage peaks/valleys.

03/04 ecms are compatible
04.5/05.5 ecms are compatible (auto to auto - manual to manual)
06-09 5.9 ecms are compatible.

There are wiring harness changes so that must be taken into account.



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Engine controls are the same, platform controls are not. Each VIN has a range of ECU numbers it is compatible with, trying to cross ranges causes issues. The 04.5 ECU's were a range of their own, most 05's are the same but there are slight differences depending on the flash levels they will support.

All of them still need the VIN for the target platform programmed into them or you will not get them to run consistently.

OP, if you do not have the original ECU for the truck you are swapping the engine into you will have problems until it is programmed correctly.

Agreed. Just noting the fact outside those years significant protocol changes were made, pinout changes and some minor hardware changes were made. You're correct in saying that engine controls inputs/outputs remained the same as did most of the logic sensor wise. However there were apps differences, sci vs can, 04.5-05.5 manuals lacked transistors for automatic solenlid controls.
Correct me if I'm wrong. My point is there are stopping points for interchanges between hardware. The ecms in the years noted above have the ability to flash and maintain full functionality with the noted exceptions.
In no way am I indicating switches should be made without a flash update. Quickserve is a great resource when comparing ecm part numbers as well as allowing the user determine supercessions.

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Yes, there differences in the harnesses and some of the peripherals across the years. It is best to match the ECU to the VIN so you don't fight a myriad of problems.

In the OP's case he has the possibility of at least 3 different ECU's in an 04 truck, 2 early and 1 late IIRC. MY04 was a transition year and there were changes in a lot of things. Some ECU ranges will work in others, some won't and that is a bugger to find out at times.

QuickServe to find the matches is a good option for matching. Dealer or a ECU rebuilder is another. Might have to send in the one he has to get the correct one with the VIN programmed in it.

ok. that's probably the issue. There was no motor in this truck when he bought it. no ecm also. The 05 ecm came from another truck. so how do I get the vin programmed into this ecm? These are all from a 5.9 common rail diesels not the older 24 valve. just to be clear. I know half way thru 04 they changed motors. That being said the ecm dated 7-16-04 came off of a 05 motor but not this truck. follow? it gets a bit confusing.

Whats the build date on the truck in question?

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Ditto, that will tell you what you need to get for the ECU.

The 7-16-05 ECU is an MY05 ECU. MY's run from August of previous year thru Jun of following year. Builds in July are almost always the next MY. Thats why you need the build date of the current truck to know what ECU.

The VIN will tell the dealer or ECU shop which one is needed and what flash to put on it. A lot of this is controlled by the VIB or the truck and not usre they can load the correct programs without it.

ok. the build date on the truck just says 7-04. Does that help?

thanks for all the info. you guys are great.

I think the build date is the last thing put on the truck so if it is titled as an 04 then you woud need an 04.5 ECU. I don't think the 7/14/04 ECU will work but you could try it with a flash for the VIN of the truck.

Getting that flash is going to be the hard part because not just any place can do it and it MUST be right for the platform. I think the big difference is the APPS, IIRC there is a difference between the output of the engine mounted ones and the cab mounted ones.

I think it will work and it should atleast run with a MIL even with the wrong vin.
I think I would be using a scan tool to determine whats next. (7/14 build date should indicate 04.5)
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ok. it's titled as a 05 truck. should we just find a 05 ecm or something? what's the easiest way I guess.

While not ideal the ecm with the incorrect vin should still run the truck. I have no idea what implications or other issues it may cause but the truck should still at least fire off. Do you have a scan tool?

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getting a scan tool today. hope that works.

The scan tool wont do anything. Its the data the scan tool provides that will allow you to find your issue. Maybe communication or ecm related maybe mechanical, who knows. Its all about interpretation of the data.

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what do you mean the scan tool wont do anything? It will give me the codes I need, and clear them. Your comment is slightly confusing? we found out it was the crankshaft sensor.

Lol thats my point. The scan tool only gives you data. Interpretation is key.
A code doesn't mean the sensor is faulty however without an oscilliscope it would be hard to determine if a waveform issue is present. If you test for power and ground at the sensor with a good reading on a loaded circuit, replace it and it still won't start you can then diagnose further. You can also use a data pid to determine of the computer sees engine rpm.

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we have a spare sensor. we also called a diesel shop in town, told them the codes so we will change it today. they agree it sounds like a crank sensor. wont take but a few minutes to change and try.

Subed

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WEll we have a new question maybe you guys can help with. I forgot to mention one thing in all this. The motor came out of a MANUAL truck, and we put it in a AUTOMATIC truck. we used the engine wiring from the manual truck, we think this may be the problem, found a plug by the transmission, we compared it to a friends automatic truck and it looks like it goes in to the engine wiring, but we don't have a plug on this wiring. so the question is, were the wiring harness' different between the automatic and the manual? we think this may b ethe problem.

yup!

ok. so is there a separate wiring harness for the automatic transmission? or is it all in one? we are also having a problem locating one. any ideas?

I think its all one harness :argh:

Iirc the trans. Harness is separated at the plug on the fire will, the harnress that the motor is on and then there is one that goes to the tranny

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well that's what I am finding out. lol. the newer ones appear to be two piece. anyone know where to find one? I can find the manual transmission one, but not the one for the automatic.

That's not giving a reason why you still have a no start. What codes are present? What's the rail pressure. While it may be harness related I'm just curious as to what's not working power train wise

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They are a 2 piece but ive had a good buddy run into a similar situation with his 03

ok thanks. I assume that it wont' start unless it senses it's out of gear. which means without the harness it can't tell. either way we need the correct wiring.

So it's not even cranking?

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i see your point there. it is in fact cranking.

Then the neutral safety can't be the cause. A scan tool is what you need. Anything else is guessing.

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ok got a better scanner today. these are the codes. 0514, battery temp sensor performance/rationality, 0107 MAP sensor low, 0336 crankshaft position sensor performance, 2509 ECM/PCM power input signal intermittent, 0335 crankshaft position sensor circuit, 0073 ambient temperature sensor high. I am thinking the MAP and the ECM are causing the problems. we have tried a different crankshaft sensor with the same results.

Give me a little while and I'll post some diagrams. In my opinion you need to start with the ecm powers and grounds. Also need to do a basic visual inspection of the sensors. Are they plugged in and making good connection? I'm committed to the belief that the only way to diagnose
a hall effect sensor is with a scope.
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