As promised the Intercooler/ non intercooler comparison chart:

As you can see the lines with the slight bow in it are the non intercooler applications.
On the left side you can see the density the turbo provided in conjunction with or without an intercooler. Compressor effectiveness is usually around 70%. Only high performance turbochargers are to deliver 78%( Thats the amount of money you have to pay for).

The straight lines are for intercooled applications. As you can see clearly the magical point is 5 to 7 psi. Until this ( I call it limit) a non intercooled vs an intercooled application gives no benefits.
Right behind that point( so to peak at higher boost levels) The air density varies greatly from a non intercooled applications. Don't get fooled by the low density numbers! Behind these numbers are hidden huge amounts of air compared with the ambient air.

Intercooler effectiveness does play also a role( The bigger, the better- size does matter in this case)



I really hope the question about mileage gains in a water methanol injection wasn't really serious, was it?
Inital costs+ methanol refill cost do not pay off compared with with the wimpy mpg gains.

It is a serious power adder if done right.But in the long run an intercooler pays off itself.

 

Use a progressive controller if you intend to benefit towing with W/M. A progressive controller allows you to dial in the right amount of W/M for a given engine load and not use alot of water when you don't need it. The cooling effect is the same regardless of whether you use water, W/M or any concentration thereof. Any concentration higher than 50/50 is dangerous from both a flammability and detonation standpoint. Increasing amounts of meth adds a timimg advance effect (thus the detonation potential) so a highly juiced truck running alot of meth and timing can put it on or over the hairy edge of severe engine damage.
That's what I do. I think it is an excellent bang for the buck mod, done right. My 1st Gen is the work/tow vehicle with a Powerstroke intercooler and Coolingist W/M controller. W/M allows it to be tuned to run EGT-safe indefinitely near WOT under any load with the fuel screw only about 2 turns "out" through stock I/C injectors. That makes in the neighborhood of 30psi boost. I don't think you could squeeze another drop of useable towing performance out of a 1st Gen with a hybrid H1C and stock fuel.

The '07 CR OTOH, is a play truck with a hobbes switch. It's set to flow at about 25psi so it only comes in for max power. The system is cobbed up from miscellaneous oddball parts including three fairly small injectors spread across the intake plate, a little 100psi gear pump and a 5gal generator tank I found on eBay. With a quad boost fooler and Smarty jr. that truck gets up to 35psi boost on the wastegate immediately when the meth hits, and you feel it. I run 50-50 W/M made from -20 washer fluid and a couple bottles of HEET per gallon jug. I refilled it once so far this year.

I believe the biggest pitfall to W/M is trying to use too much. High-flow systems with lots of big injectors gulping gallons of water is for sled pullers and drag racers that are fueled for it. In order to be effective, the system has to be matched to the level of fueling being run.

 

I have a 92 1st gen, pump cranked 2 turns, bigger turbo, stock injectors, intercooled, 4" exhaust, running 50/50 mix water meth, started w/17 nozzle pulling 5th wheel, spraying @ 12 lbs. boost....slight detonation....backed down to 15 nozzle...helped detonation but still detonating....should I drop to smaller nozzle or go 70 water 30 meth?

 

diesel power has all kind of info on water injection vs. intercooling in the may issue

 

WHERE DO I GET THAT INFO?
DONT NEED INFO ON COOLER VS WATER INJECTION....JUST WANT 2 KNOW HOW TO STOP DETONATION?I HAVE BOTH INCOOLER & WTER INJECTION....

 

Increase the start injection point to no less than 15psig at the minimum injection rate . . . . less W/M starting at a higher boost pressure.


You're not getting any real cooling effect running a 50/50 mix. It's too hot and is better suited to a power increase. For a work truck, I'd run no more than 20% methanol to help keep the water from quenching the flame. > Anymore than a 50/50 mix is only gonna make problems with no power/cooling effect increase.

 

It's either too much timing or too much meth or a combination of a little too much of both.

 

Simple thoughts:
If you run more than 7psi boost you need permanent intercooling to avoid high egt's and to gain a better efficiency also called more hp.

rule of thumb:
Every degree you can cool down the intake temperature results in the same amount of lower egt's.
Every 10 degree lower intake temperature result in approximately 3% more hp.
So- lower your intake temps by 100° and get rewarded with 30% more power.

Compare that with a cold air intake

Water/meth is different. Temperatures are extremly lowered by condensation and additional o² is released from the water H2O.
But the effect is limited by the amount of water/meth you can carry.

 

i was not talking to you i was help 1st gen 1990 with his question at the top of the page

 

For the sake of related conversation:

- The inter-cooler (technically an after-cooler. READ: the Cummins engine designation: 6BTA = 6 cylinder, B series, T turbocharged, A after-cooled) was only added by Dodge so as to meet the increasingly restrictive EPA emissions regs. A cooler charge-air temp greatly helps in reducing oxides of nitrogen (a pollutant).

- In the case of making more power and better overall efficiency, the after-cooler's function isn't just about cooler charge-air temps. It's the resulting increase in charge-air density. Remember our infernal combustion engines work by taking advantage of expanding air by heating it. We're not talking about the oxygen content to support burning the fuel. More fuel by itself won't make more power without an additional amount of air for the heat to work with. The air is the working medium. That which the burning fuel heats. The air expands, pushing the pistons down.

That's the point of the turbocharger. One can easily increase the power output of the typical engine's footprint by adding some means of forced induction.

The inter-cooler accomplishes the same thing by reducing the charge-air's temp, the result being a denser product.

That all being said, the more (quantity), of denser charge-air, the more power and better overall efficiency can be realized.


- The water/methanol deal works by the fact that in order to evaporate a liquid (change of state), one must add heat. In the case of W/M injection, the heat comes primarily from the fuel's combustion. (Certainly some heat is absorbed from the charge-air, the heat associated with compression, etc). The bottom line is, most apparent final EGT reduction comes from water being converted into steam.
Another neat thing about the water injection is that pound for pound, water boiled-off with the same quantity of heat given the corresponding air, will occupy a larger volume of space. In our application of making more power, expanding water vapor (steam) will push the piston just that much harder.
On that note, with my W/M install running a 50/50 mix for drag-racing, I'll bet I've never seen more than a 10hp increase on the dyno. The bell-ringer for me was the additional 50~100ft/lbs of torque.

So say the voices in my head . . . .. and these guys . ..

Custom Hellman IC



Two .625 Snow W/M nozzles fed by a 3/8" ID line from the 250psig pump in the bed's toolbox.