Fixing Your KDP On The Cheap
 

All the 12v and 24v Cummins engines have one deadly, fatal flaw... The KDP! 2001 and up are less likely to have the problem due to a case change but it is still worth a look!

This small steal pin is used during assembly to locate the timing housing on the front of the engine. The problem though is that after many years and miles the vibrations of the engine work the pin loose and it can fall into the gear case and do ALOT of damage.

Here you can see some damage caused by a KDP. (A) Is were the pin was once located and (B) is the damage done. (I found this pic on the net along time ago and am not sure whos it is, if you know please let me know)

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There are kits on the market to fix this problem or you can do it yourself, I'm a cheap ass so I went the DIY route, if you want a nice kit with new seals and all hit up the sponsors here on the site, they can get you straight! Price Quote - Request A Price - Diesel Bombers

I already had the front of my truck off for some other work but you can do this with just removing the radiator.
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First you need to remove the belt, then go after the four bolts holding the fan support to the block, I find it easier to remove the six bolts that hold the fan pulley to the shaft, slid the pulley forward so you have room to get to the bottom bolt, and take it off as one assembly.

Here the six bolt have been removed and the pulley moved toward the front of the truck for access.
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And here is the front of the engine with the whole assembly gone
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Next we need to go after the crank pulley, its just four 15mm bolts. The easiest way to remove them is with a impact. If not you will need to keep the engine from rotating some how while you go at the with a 1/2' ratchet. Also go ahead and remove the oil fill tube. Un-bolt the mounting bracket at the head and then rotate th whole assembly counter-clockwise to unscrew it.
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Gone! Now start removing the 20 10mm bolts that hold the cover on, keep track because there are two lengths.
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Here is were you should be at! I put a red box around the area we will be concentrating on.
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Here is a close up, mine is still in place and has not moved. Yours may or may not be, go ahead and take a punch and hammer and tap it till it sits flush with the case.
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Now we are going to tab it. I got this idea from BC847 from apicture in one of his posts. Thanks David!!! Remove the bolt next to the pin, then take a coat hanger and cut a small piece. Using some pliers bend up your piece of coat hanger to resemble this shape. Make sure the loop is a snug fit around the bolt.
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Now with your tab in place replace the bolt, put some red thread locking compound on the bolt and torque it to 18 ft/lbs.
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It would be a good time also now to remove the rest of the case bolts and put thread lock on them also, one of mine was not even snug any more... That would have been as bad as the KDP! There are two hidden behind the cam gear, don't forget them! You will have to rotate the engine till you can access them through the holes in the gear. I circled them in red here.
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Now its time to replace the cover, make sure all the old gasket material is removed and everything is REALLY clean. Then grab some RTV and run a bead around the lip and around all the bolt holes, you want NO gaps. Replace the cover and snug the bolts down. This is the RTV I use.

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Finally simply replace everything you took apart and enjoy your truck knowing that a 1/4" piece of steal wont kill your pride and joy!

That is a sweet little cheap kdp fix!

good job bobby:jump:

thanks a good write up and pictures and have you ever thought of having a playboy bunny in your pictures you know to help point out the things you are talking about instead of circling them with your red marker also that would help our post count for the next couple of months:w2:

A great write up here Bobby. How about more info on getting the front crank seal in right. I've done it a few times now and still haven't found an easy way to get it done so it sits in there right.

Never took mine out so I dont know... :D

Talkin about the seal that goes in the front cover. You really know somethin I don't if you pulled the cover without the seal.

It stays in teh cover. At least mine did...

Now your gonna make me pull it apart and check it tomorrow... :D

Nice work. :pca1:

BE AWARE!! There are people who're PO'ed right now that you've shown them how to fix the KDP with a coat-hanger. Many of them have payed a lot of money for equal results. Therefore, the coat-hanger trick is by default suspicious and in no way capable of duplicating that of a $20 screwed-up washer. :pca1:

David!

How about some clarification on the seal... Did you have to replace yours?

this will make it to the sticky section huh

That seal has a black ring inside of it that's like cardboard, I don't know what it's really made of. If you just push that seal on the crank it pushes out towards the outside and doesn't seal right. It has to stay facing toward the rear of the motor. I've made this mistake a few times and never could figure out why it always started leaking so quick after I changed it.

This time the kid helped me with it and showed me what I was doin wrong. We put a few bolts in the cover to hold it in place and i held the cover away from the motor so the RTV didn't get jacked up while he used a pick from under the truck to work the seal on the crank so it faced the right direction when we were done. Once you get it worked on the crank all the way around you can push it on and it will stay right but gettin it started is the trick.

If upon disassembly, I find the seal to not be leaking, with removal of the damper, I wipe the crankshaft's snout clean and take things apart.

With the completion of my work, I wipe dry both the crankshaft's snout as well as the shaft surface of the existing seal. Reinserting the installation sleeve (the one I saved from the last new seal's installation) into the crankshaft seal, I reassemble as normal and remove the installation sleeve saving it for the next use.

Make sense? :humm:

If I do find I have to replace the seal, I've found a way to mimic the intent of the Cummins recommended procedure for installing the new seal. It's stupid easy. http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/d....html?t=126282

The Cummins tool that the dealers use have a lip around the outer edge of it that keep this seal pushed in while it seats onto the crank. To get the seal into the cover A press is simple to use and it slides right in.

damn ya'll... :D

Stay tuned for teh Replace your front seal write up! :D

The fly in that ointment (if you will) is that Cummins expects one to have the engine out of the vehicle so as to have full and free access to the front of the engine for the purpose of drifting the seal into place.

Reviewing the thread I posted above presents with Cummins instructing us to press the seal into place with the gear-case cover properly installed on the engine beforehand.

---AutoMerged DoublePost---

Bobby, you get the drift of my thread there?

Yeah I hear you David... :D

I'll mess with it this week. Thanks for the link!

Here's the tool they use. You just put a bolt through it and into the crank.
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Yup. That tool however is not part of the standard replacement seal kit which only includes the installation sleeve as well as the tool used to located the seal in the gear-case cover itself.

That seal installation procedure that Bobby and I refer to allows for mimicking the function of that alignment tool you show. :pca1:

ok so could i get all the cummins part numbers to replace this seal... i think i have most of them at work, but part numbers would make it much nicer to look up,
oh and RSWORDS another A+++++ write up
SOME ONE MAKE THIS A STICKY !!!!!!!!!!!!

Here's the tool for it. SPX Miller Special Tools | Detail: 8281 - INSTALLER, SEAL

Thanks UB!

David my post was edited, :argh:

Finished gettin mine back together last night and tested it out today haulin hay. I'M JACKED NOW. Now that everything is cleaned up we found the real leak. It's leakin between the gear case and motor block. This means the whole thing has to come apart again and then figure out how to get all the gears off so I can get into there.

fun fun fun dont something like that require the camshaft to be removed:humm:

I'm hopin the gear will come off separate from the cam but I don't know.

On a side note here. It's kinda funny that the 2nd gen 24V trucks use the same seals and gaskets for the front gear case as these early years but they are both different from the later 12V that were built.

It doesn't come off without a press. Reinstalling the gear requires heating it to 250* ~ 300*F and dropping it onto the cam's snout.

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You might consider re-torquing all the case to block bolts (18ft/lbs) if you haven't already. IIRC, all the bolts are accessible with rolling the gears over where needed and reaching through the webs if not out in the open.

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:pca1:

I did my KDP last weekend and my "cheap fix" was to stake the hole (booger up the edges of the hole with a punch) so the pin can't drop out. That is easier than making a tab if your pin is indended a bit (as it generally is, if everything is right). Also don't need a special longer bolt.

Napa sells new front seals with a plastic slide and the install guage (a rest for setting the seal depth) for about $35. That will take care of any tool needs. You, of course, can use silicone for the cover gasket, but I decided to replace the gasket as well, adding a bit of cost. The biggest reason I used a gasket was in case I want to get in there to deal with the pump gear again (also timed it while I had it open).

For tools, I used regular hand tools and also air tools (because I have them) but nothing special is required. An engine barring tool (Snap On -- about $60 --http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=56074&group_ID=1294 &store=snapon-store&dir=catalog ) is a worthwhile investment for this sort of work. Sure does make it easy to turn over the engine, especially with doing the timing at the same time as the KDP. Snappy also has the other specialty tools for this engine -- wrenches for the fuel pump, timing tools, etc. http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/tools...e=snapon-store

CHECK YOUR OTHER COVER BOLTS! I found most of my timing cover bolts only finger tight. I pulled each one (one at a time) and cleaned, then used red loc-tite and re-torqued to factory specs. Note that the cam gear has one window that is a bit bigger than the other two -- you can just get a socket over the hidden bolts if you roll the engine to those holes.

To get easier access, I pulled the upper core support bar and the radiator. I didn't pull the coolers -- they were low enough to not be in the way. The job was relatively easy once the stuff was out of the way. While it was all apart, I took the liberty of doing some engine painting and general cleaning and detailing. I found some "cast iron" colored engine paint at the Zone that was close enough to the factory color to look okay. Painted the front cover, pullys, etc., in some contrasting colors (red, med. gloss black) just for fun. Looks better already.

Also, while I was in there cleaning and poking around, I discovered that the wire for the water in fuel sensor had rubbed through on the pre-filter, which had shorted out at some point in time, a wonder it didn't burn down the entire truck. Pays to check around under there once in a while.

why cant you just glue the dowel pin in?

i dont think glue would hold it. with the vibration of the motor, it would cause the clue to crack. at least thats my thinking any how

There is a "creeping" version of loctite made for just this purpose that would probably hold the pin in place just fine, but with a hard polished pin it might have a tough time finding a bite on the pin itself. The loctite is made for screws and bolts with threads.

Loctite Consumer Retail Products | Product Detail

Easiest is just staking -- no additional costs involved. Just take a small punch or chisel and hit the edges of the hole inward a bit -- that will raise a ridge that will stop the pin from walking out. I wouldn't recommend staking for anything that had pressure pushing against it, but the pin just sits there. The factory thought that mere friction would take care of it (they were obviously wrong) so a bit of a ridge in the case around the pin would certainly handle it. I did mine that way. If I thought it wasn't going to work, I'd have made the tab -- I have a full shop with fabrication capability -- but I'm fully confident with the staking process. Only reason for a tab is when the pin sticks out a bit. Mine was below the surface.

what about like red silcone? i mean it gives but it holds really well? what is the damn thing for anyways?

Ha ha been a hot topic before on the p-pump conversion thread. :hellox:
1. There to help with alignment upon assembly at the factory.
2. To keep alignment optimal for the pump since the bolt holes are larger than then bolts and will allow movement of the timing cover.
3. Lateral shear for the weight of the pump ( under debate because the pump is braced at the bottom from the side of the motor.
4. Because someone wanted to be a pain in the a** and put it there. (this one also under debate):tttt:

I've never seen it up close and personal. But I'm wandering why you can't just remove the pin compleatly.

Some guys do... But, the entire weight of the front cover and accessories hang on smallish bolts that are not precisely sized. It is the dowel pin that accurately locates the cover to preserve proper lash in all the gears that drive the pump, cam, etc.

Just fix it and run it -- no biggie. What's all the effort at some sort of work around for a stupid tab made from a fender washer or a couple of taps with a punch? This job can be done at home in the driveway with simple hand tools -- more a bother than a mechanical nightmare. No real "settings" of any kind to deal with, just nuts and bolts. I did mine in one afternoon, and that was the first time I've ever touched a wrench to a 6BT Cummins, didn't even have a repair manual -- did the work from posts I found on vendor and forum sites.

getting ready to go get dirty and fix her wish me luck

Thanks for that!!! real helpful:tu:

I like it

is there a way to get the crank pulley off without a puller? i took the 4 bolt out and it won't come off.

I just did my k.d.p and I did not need a puller, if you do use a puller be sure that it does not attach to the out side with hooks are you can seperate the balancer off the pully.