@Deezel Stink3r and RSWORDS

not gonna sit here and argue. Home defense isnt like hunting or target preactice:ok1:

Right, haven't seen any superiors at the frontline for a long time...:pals:

wisconsin redneck,
That 870 jambs because of what you clean it with. If it has "Rem Oil" in the title on the side of the can, throw it as far as you can. Rem Oil is the worst thing you could put on or in a gun.

Go get you some Gun Scrubber and clean it real good with that. Then put a light coat of BreakFree with CLP on it. Lightly coat the action of the gun with CLP. Then go get a couple boxes of shells of your choice and shoot em and see if the gun works better. Also, don't worry about whether or not BreakFree will freeze, it's been tested not to freeze down to -435 degrees F.

I guarantee you will not go back to Rem Oil once you try BreakFree w/CLP.

yes..... breakfree with CLP is fantastic.

BTW for the guys that think that a slug would be a good idea to shoot at an intruder should think again, to hit someone with a slug and either a scope or iron sights (at night it is more of a point and shoot thing) is considered pre-meditated murder in some states, a slug is meant for maximum destruction, penetration and knockdown power.

someone using buckshot is not necessarily going to kill an intruder instantly like a well placed slug, that being said dead men tell no lies.... but let the government get ahold of it and twist it around..... i hate wasting good buckshot on a bad guy, i alternate buckshot and birdshot in my 12ga, then my backup 20ga has hi-brass steelshot and slugs alternating, so if i get the 20ga, the first shot will be steelshot, the next will be a slug, theoretically i can say the first shot was to detur the suspect and the second shot was because i was fearful of my life,

all this being said, NEVER shoot an intruder in the back.....

what kind is best?....Loaded!

Yall talk about having guns close to where you sleep. I think yall just live in the wrong places lol i can hear if someone is a 1/4 from my house and if i dont wake up then they would have to make it past me lil girl (my pitbull) got to love the country!

I live in the country myself. I usually keep my .45 Kimber in my nightstand because you never know when someone is going to do something stupid. But for a home defense shotgun, any reliable shotgun that anchors good and is manueverable (short) would be good if that's what you feel comfortable with. I like a pistol with night sites though.

In my opinion pistol is for me. i have a .38/357, load#1 .38 snake shot, #2,3,4 .38 hallow point #5 357 180g hallow point, and thats on the wifes side of the bed. My side is equipped with a Springfeild Arms .40 with Stay out of my way loads. I just make sure to aim down when i shoot. nothing would go out of my house alive if they ever entered unwanted.... :w2: My shot guns are in the safe. If you want reliability and trust, get a single action revolver. .38/357. any one that shoots it would have to know how to cock the hammer. pretty child safe and never fails.

Daughter got hot and heavy over a CCW. Wanted an auto cause she loves mine. After I explained that when she ever DOES have to pull it. She WILL NOT be in the frame of mind to remember everything she should to own an auto. Did some practice drills forrggin with her mind and got her worked up ( with an UNLOADED and NO MAG in the gun) with my auto. No worky. she says AHAA! I will take the revolver please ! Stress TESTS! I love them so. :D

WoW....a lot of good choices! I do like a shotgun for home defense in the mid of the night providing your the only person you live with. I have a few different carry guns from 38's and 357's to a 41 mag

But I will shoot them in the legs til they turn around.......

Saiga 12 is an awesome home defense gun. Semi auto AK47 clone in 12ga 3in. But its pricey!. I use a mossberg 500 12ga. A CZ 75 BD in my nightstand and a Taurus 85 ultralight 38spl +p in the wifes night stand.

The Mossberg has home defense rounds.
CZ has SXZ's
Taurus has a staggered load of SXZ+p, Hydroshok, SXZ+p, Hydroshok,...

I've never been a huge fan of Mossberg shotguns (the ones I've handled rattled, but they worked every time), but this month's issue of Guns & Ammo Magazine has a good write-up on the new Mossberg 590 defense shotgun. They are good enough for the U.S. military and there's a couple different variations, so you should be able to find one that fits the bill.

They may rattle but they are dead reliable. Some of the new versions they are coming out with are sweet. Like the "roadblock" i think is the name of it. It has a muzzle brake that looks like it came off of a Barrett .50 cal.
http://www.mossberg.com/images/home/50591.jpg
The SXP
http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossb.../New/51523.jpg
The Persuader
http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossb.../New/50145.jpg
THe Cruiser
http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossb.../New/54125.jpg
The Rolling Thunder
http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossb.../New/55605.jpg
They also have the "JIC" just in case. It comes in a watertight floatable pvc tube with strap. Comes in a few diffent versions freaking awesome looking!:rocking:
http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossb.../New/53340.jpg
http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossb.../New/52340.jpg
http://www.mossberg.com/images/Mossb.../New/51340.jpg

And that's just a sampling! Go check out there site.

i got an 870 with an 18 1/2" barell, 2 shot magzine extension, top folding stock and a couple other goodies on it, i leave it loaded with a bird shot then 00 buck and a slug to finish, i also got my .44 mag with 220 hollow points nex to the bed with the shotgun, and in my pickup i got my 1911 .45. id say if your worried about shootin your neighbor through the wall or something load ya some shells with rock salt, if that dont doit for ya use some nickles or dimes. :U:

Here's a link to some awesome shot shells. >>>> Firequest International, Inc. [ Firequest.com ]

Anything from confetti, to multishot, to flechettes, to armor piercing rounds!

That's what makes them so awesome. They'll run in mud.

Dead reliable.

dan what is your semi? rem 1100?:U:

Thanks Bucket Truck, Im ordering the Mariner one. It will be....ummmm......hid. Also like the Saiga one. For what anyone may say about an AK clone ( And I have a saiga converted ak-47 too)....We have found them buried in mud. If you can clean out the barrel, kick that bolt open with your boot? That SOB WILL fire! guaranteed. and let's be honest, when it happens, we will ALL be forgetting about MOA groups and going directly for center mass. ( Of course some of us will be going for that apricot....and ya
'll know who you are......:w2:)

lol, ask anyone that's been to the house...you've got to get past a chesapeak bear hound, a 70 lb american bulldog and a 110 lb UKC APBT..... and a hound :)

cause maybe you need to sneak up to the bad guy and put a cap in his ass

Older HK.

Not really an HK, it's a re-badged Fabarm. Similar to the 1100 but will handle 3". Good eye. :U:

The Saiga is the funnest thing ever to play with! It will have you hurting the next day tho! It is on the wish list!

im was in the market for a new shotty, the 60 year old model 12 isn't chambered for 3" slugs and your not supposed to use it with steel shot so i have been trying to decide between a semi or a pump. I love the cost and reliability of a pump but semi's are just cool. Im thinking a bernelli nova for the cost is what im going to get and i love that you can do 2 3/4 3in and 3 1/2in with it =D. wonder what a 3.5in slug will do to a zombie :pca1: and with the 24" barrel plus a choke kit im sure i can kill everything out there :choochoo:

you never shoot to kill, you feared for your safety and your goal was not to kill the SOB but to disable him and stop the attack in order to protect your family. :w2:

---AutoMerged DoublePost---

heres just a couple of my home defense options, from the top, Mossberg 500 police special, Remmington 870 tactical and my AK47

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x...8/IMG_0460.jpg

In NC it's legal to use lethal force if someone is trying to forcefully/illegally enter your home. Once they're inside, common rules apply where you have to be in fear for life/bodily harm to you or your family in order to legally use lethal force.

Personally I prefer a pistol with night sights and a surefire as it's easier to get through a doorway/around a corner than a shotgun. It also gives me the capability, if I absolutely have to, to have a free hand, as much as I prefer shooting with both hands, I regularly practice both left and right single handed, it's just good preparedness for worst case scenario.

I do not mind my 18.5" Mossberg Combo, chambered for up to 3". I would really like to get a light on that, a shorter butt stock and a hogue front grip...I don't like the feel of the plastic grip. I have NEVER had a fail to cycle event with my Mossberg combo.

For home defence I like to keep one or two rounds of hollow points then jump up to heavy stuff. If you hit them first shot itll drop them, but if you miss they wont have much collateral. If you miss, there gonna take cover and thats what the heavy stuff is for, through a wall, door, car, etc... Same principal shold work for a shotgun.

Shoot to kill....always.

Dead people don't hire attorneys to sue you, and prosecutors will more often than not find justifiable homicide when it is your word against a dead intruders with a weapon in their cold, stiff hand.

Unlike what you see in the movies the facts here are that if you take a shot at somebody that is in the open and they take cover, you better run cause your dealin with somebody that has experience and is probably still alive because they are good at what they do. The fact is that at that first shot if we feel vulnerable, as in standing in the open, instinct tells us to run, run far and run fast. This is why Law enforcement and military do so many drills and exercises with these circumstances so that they can fight those instincts and stay for the fight.

When you see news footage of crowds and people are duckin and divin under tables you are lookin at more of a "monkey see, monkey do" kind of thing. That first person ducks and everybody else subconsciously see this and follow suit. As social animals we by instinct follow the leader in a crowd situation. But this doesn't apply in home defense because there is no crowd to follow.



Now I'm really gonna step on some manhood here and stir some folks up and my only reason for doing this is to maybe stop one person from getting into a situation that they can't get out of. Everybody out there thinks they would have no problem pulling that trigger and taking a life. Welcome to being a man. But the facts also are that without proper training and even with it most of you can't do it and that shouldn't be a threat to your manhood. I've watched many men fold in this situation the first time they were there and that was with training. They got lucky, somebody else was there to back them up. But at the same time I have never seen any of those same men fold the second time. They experienced it, they processed it and they got on with business the next time. Mother nature made it against our nature to take another persons life. If you have never looked down that barrel at a man for real, life and death on the line, from either direction then you can't even imagine the emotion that is going to flood you the first time you do. This is one of those things you can talk about but until you live it you won't understand it.

This is why I recommend non-lethal ammunition for this shotgun. You will shoot without hesitation with it because inside yourself you know you are not going to kill anybody. With real ammo you will hesitate, this is just a fact, you will hesitate and that hesitation may very well cost you or a loved one a life.

Ok let the he-man remarks fly.

AMEN! Preach on Reverend Miyagi!

I also agree with Uncle Bubba about a lot people being unable to pull the trigger against another human being when faced with the necessity to do so. The problem with non-lethal ammunition is the fact the now-crippled intruder will sue you and your family for everything you have... or ever will have. The criminals have more rights in the eyes of the law than the homeowner. Fortunately here are several states, like Ohio, that have adopted "Castle Doctrine" laws that are supposed to protect the homeowner against lawsuits should said homeowner use justified LETHAL force against an attacker, but even "non-lethal" loads like rock-salt or rubber buckshot/slugs can... 1) kill at the close ranges associated with home defense or 2) permanently maim the intruder, which will open up multiple years of "pain and suffering" and "violation of human rights" lawsuits. Not to mention the intense agony from a rock-salt blast could be construed as "cruel and unusual punishment", which is a violation of the attacker's constitutional rights!.

Dropping the hammer on someone is supposed to be the most trying decision any of us should ever have to make. Fact is, most intruders will either flee or surrender at merely the sight of the homeowner with a gun and pump shotguns have the "rep" on the street as being the #1 thing you DO NOT want to face down. Anyone who is willing to do so is either fully intent on killing you and/or so high and out of his mind that a "non-lethal" shotgun load very well WILL NOT stop the attack and once that person grabs the barrel of your weapon, it a whole other ballgame!

Someone buying a weapon for home/personal defense should make certain that having said weapon means that SOMEDAY they may actually HAVE to use it. In which case, it will be a situation of your life or his. If a person doesn't feel he can make that decision, then he needs to leave the gun at the gun store, buy a baseball bat and hope for the best.

I agree 100% I keep a 40 s&w next to my bed, not a shotgun. He wants a shotgun... Or are you talking about teh not hitting with your 1st shot comment? If you cant hit your target with the 1st shot from a shot gun of all things you should not pull teh trigger. You have not identified your target well enough. Be a bitch to shoot your old lady while she was getting a drink of water. I bet you dont get laid for a while...

I agree with this 100% except for teh non-lethal ammo, if your going to shot someone you need to be ready to kill them.

As far as thinking you can pull the trigger, everyone thinks they can but till it happens you dont know... I was in one situation were I though I would have to use my gun, kid was in a convinence store, playing with something under his shirt paceing around, he was getting ready to hold it up. I took the strap off my 40 and clicked off the saftey, I was scared shitless. Luckly the kid just walked out, I'm glad. I really dont know if I could have shot him if it came down to it.

The fact is that even if its 100% justifiable you will be in a shit-storm, Your gonna freak out, have problems sleeping, you WILL get sued. Might get crimianl charges. Pray you never get into that situation.

In a law enforcement situation, where police, etc have shoot to kill programming beat into them almost daily, it makes for an effective means of subduing a perp with a lessened possibility of lethal injury....notice I said lessened....a bean bag round can kill a person if used incorrectly by an inexperienced homeowner who bought 3 rounds from Cheaper Than Dirt without actually understanding their intended purpose.

If you do successfully shoot a perp with a bean bag round, and hit him in the leg, arm, stomach, etc....and if that said perp is by chance high on PCP, Crank, or in dire straits of withdrawl and needs your TV, laptop computer, or jewelry box to pawn for his next fix, well, if an entire mag from a 9mm won't stop them (documented) I highly doubt a bean bag is going to get him to run away in fear.....

Consider the options....

1) Surefire beam to the face, rack the slide, and say "STOP! GET DOWN ON THE GROUND!"

2) If they don't, use one of the rounds of Federal Law Enforcement Low Recoil 00 Buck to blow that coffee table in your living room you never really liked but your wife just had to have into a million pieces to let the perp know your gun has more than bean bags in it.

3) If they keep coming, blow a freakin' hole in them you can drive a truck through.

It might not work for everyone depending on their area of residency and level of malice, but in my little world, it will.

:c:

http://canadaammo.com/product.php?pr...1&cat=0&page=1
Nice 12.5" barrel Pump

For home defense I would actually prefer something smaller that is easily maneuvered indoors/room to room. A nice 1911 .45 would be good if you are capable of good results with a pistol. One advantage you Americans have, is that you are allowed to put suppressors on your weapons, a suppressed pistol indoors would be greatly favoured as opposed to anything else without a can on it. Just my opinion though.

You could always get proficient at using throwing knives as well....

Actually, both that shotgun and any type of suppressor are illegal to own here in the states unless you have a Class 3 weapons permit, which can be a bear to obtain in most states/jurisdictions and impossible to get in others. Mega-background searches, fingerprinting, photo I.D. name,rank and serial number... and that's just for the application. All that is sent off to at least the BATF, who will take 3-6 months to give you an answer. Once you have the permit, you will have to get a $200.00 Class 3 tax stamp, which is good for ONE transfer of a Class 3 weapon.

According to the BATF, Class 3 weapons are described as:

Machine guns, sound suppressors (a.k.a.
silencers), short barreled shotguns, short barreled rifles,
destructive devices and "any other weapons".

A machine gun is any gun that can fire more than one shot with a single pull of the
trigger, or a receiver of a machine gun, or a combination of
parts for assembling a machine gun, or a part or set of parts for
converting a gun into a machine gun.

A silencer is any device for muffling the gunshot of a portable firearm, or any part
exclusively designed or intended for such a device.

A short barreled shotgun is any shotgun (shoulder fired, smooth bore) with a barrel of less than 18" or an overall length of less than 26", or any weapon made from a
shotgun falling into the same length parameters.

A short barreled rifle is a rifle (shoulder fired, rifled bore) with a
barrel length of less than 16", or an overall length of less
than 26", or any weapon made from a rifle falling into the same
length parameters (like a pistol made from a rifle).

In measuring barrel length you do it from the closed breech to the
muzzle, see 27 CFR sec. 179.11. To measure overall length do so
along, "the distance between the extreme ends of the weapon
measured along a line parallel to the center line of the bore."
27 CFR sec. 179.11. On a folding stock weapon you measure with
the stock extended, provided the stock is not readily detachable,
and the weapon is meant to be fired from the shoulder.

A destructive device (DD) is an explosive, incendiary or poison gas
weapon, or any firearm with a bore over 1/2", with exceptions for
sporting shotguns, among other things.


Any other weapons (AOW's) are a number of things; smooth bore
pistols, any pistol with more than one grip,
gadget type guns (cane gun, pen gun) and shoulder fired weapons
with both rifled and smooth bore barrels between 12" and 18",
that must be manually reloaded. These
definitions are simplified, to see if a specific gun is a title 1
or 2 firearm one needs to refer to the specific definition under
the statute(s), and possibly consult with the Technology Branch
of ATF. There is also case law on the issue of whether a
specific item falls into one of these categories.

Well i live in the country, and dont get a whole lot of cars at night, but the closest neighbor own a large dump truck company, so im used to dump trucks shiftin gears in front of the house and hittin the jakes, add that to my heavy sleeping and my only hope is the dogs wakin me up, lol, but if i do wake up, i keep my Benelli Nova Pump next to the bed with an empty chamber and 5 00buckshot ready to go, all i gotta do is pump. I also have one of those stretchy shell holders that slides over the stock. I live by myself so the only ones to watch out for is the dogs, and more than likely i wont have to worry about having ot commit to shooting cause the dogs will be trying to eat the intruder for a midnight snack.:U:

I disagree, I would want to make alot of noise. In the movies people are always real quite when loading there weapon, etc... If you make it known that you have a shotgun, most intruders will haul a$$ the way they came. i wouldnt want a silencer either, what if there was two intruders, I would want him to hear the other guy get blasted.

Thanks, I wasn't totally aware of your firearms laws. For the most part things are different here but there are some similarities. The biggest difference is you guys can get concealed carry with we are really trying to push up here, its going to take a long time but hopefully one day. Anyway, thanks.

BTW, if somebody broke into my home and I was able to use lethal force to protect myself and my family, I would not want to make it known what I had and where I was. When you make all of the racket of loading your shotgun and bubba runs away, he just gets more chances to do that same sh!t to other people. I would like to think I could do what had to be done in the most efficient way possible at the time. I would not want to give them any other advantage. :bat:

Common misconception.....

Suppressors aren't 'silencers'.....they are still quite loud with most ammunition, especially supersonic.

we talkin flash suppressors here or sound suppressors/dampeners.