I orderd one of the new Refield Revenges 4-12X42 in the varmint accur range reticle, and I got it for my remington 700 in 22-250 so tomarrow I will go sight her in. So far I like the scope much clearer than the bushnell I had on it, but my Vortex Dimondback on my 30-06 still beats this redfield. When you look into it, the FOV seems small combared to my vortex. But the vortex BDC reticle was to big for prarie dogs and so I opted for the Redfield, dont regret the purhcase, plus a liftetime warranty. But next scope either a Vortex Viper or Vortex PST when I go buy a .308 for my beginner long range prescion rifle, then when I get enough money saved go and get a bigger long range prescion rifle made, still cant decide on what caliber. Thats ballisitcaly good for LR and doesnt beat the hell outta ya lol..

I own one each of those, a Viper in 6.5-20x44 mil-dot sitting on a egw 20 moa base atop of a weatherby vanguard .257 weatherby magnum and a Viper PST 6-24x50 ebr1 moa retical o a egw 20 moa base atop of a weatherby vanguard 7mm rem mag which i shoot to 1000-1100 yards.

ballisticaly a 7mm rem mag is very hard to beat even gunwerks has their own 7mm LRM which is just a non belted version of a 7mm rem mag AI. Or if your looking for more bullet weight then its going to have to be a .338 to out shoot the 7mm's out there. Then you get into burnin alot of powder.

I am about to have my 7mm rem mag rebarreled with a 28" kreiger fluted barrel chambered in kinda an odd round. It will bea 7mm-.300 Weatherby Magnum. On paper it is a ballistic twin to a 7mm STW and the only reason i'm not doing the STW is because i'm a weatherby fan and i like different stuff. kinda like having a .257 weatherby mag instead of the popular 25-06.

When i am done with that rifle my next project will be a ELR Gun and will be chambered in .338-.378 Weatherby magnum. again it is very similar to the very very popular .338 Lapua but it is slightly more powder and it was developed quite a bit before the Lapua and again it is different. Im going to build it off of a Weatherby Mark-V action and both guns are getting set in Joel Russo stocks.

I wouldent mind having serveral prescion rifles one for 600-1000 yards such as the 308 wincheter, which once I get some use and learn how to shoot long range, Id like to chamber it in a 260 Remington. But I would like something i can use to shoot farther once I actually have the skill to do so instead of wasting money and abusing my shoulder trying to shoot 1500 to 2000 yards. I like 7mm Rem Mags, 300 win mags simply to the fact they are cheaper to load than say a .338 lapua and a .300 RUM. But Ive questioned their accuracy for the 7mm mag and 300 win mag. It simply comes down to the lack of knowledge for me lol. I just wish I could go find a class or a competion for this type of shooting that was not a ten hour drive away, so Im self teaching!!!! All the long range shooters out here go by kentucky windage... Weatherbys are nice guns, Im stuck between Remington 700's, Howa 1500's and the Savages LE model 10's. Im just not much of a savage lover though, But remington only has one model of the rifle chamberd in .308 with a 1-10" twist so I can shoot 175-190 grain bullets. And Howas you can buy barreled actions but their is a lack of components to purchase to build the rifle, and savages are good guns, it just we never have gotten along...

The reason i was saying that the 7mm rem mag is hard to beat is because of the high BC bullets that you can get in .284 caliber as well as the same for the .338 caliber which makes them the top 2 calibers for long range.

have you considered a 6.5x284? it is a very capable round

i am self taught nothing wrong with that at all

my weatherby vanguards use howa 1500 actions so you can buy the vanguard series 2 rifles which are sub-moa certified and are around $430 new and the 7mm comes with a 1:9.5 barrel which will shoot the +.600 BC 168gr berger bullets over 3000fps.

I have considerd the 6.5X284 just Ive been told its a real big barrel burner... Its slightky hard to come by the brass for it.

they can be if you dont take care of the barrel but alot of guys are getting fair barrel life from them.

i really think you would be happy with a 7mm rem mag. do some compairing between that 190gr 308 with what ever velocity you can find in factory ammo and a 7mm 150gr bullet running 3200fps and check the impact energy at 600-1000 yards i think you will be surprised

i'm running the barnes TTSX 150gr at 3240fps and anywhere after 800 yards it hits harder then a .338 ultramag with a 250gr because the 7mm keeps its velocity so much better.

I can definatleu do that

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Yea I definatley like how the 7mm mag looks... What kind of accuracry have you pulled outta of yours at 100 yards, and 500 yards??? just out of curiosity.

i've shot 3 shot groups that all touched at 100y with the 150gr TTSX with 73.5gr of H1000 behind them....Barnes manual says 68 is max...lol

my wife shot a 3" group at 500y and i shot a 7" group at 750y with the same loads

i use the dirt cheep $17.99 a box federal blue box 150 gr powerpoint rounds you can buy at walmart just for fire forming brass but i have developed a drop chart for them also and even they will hold about a 12" group at 600y which isnt too bad considering how cheep they are and the low low bc of the bullets and the inconsistancy of the charges.

Hmmmm, thanks for all your imput, Im gonna continue to pic your brain how do you like the PST compared to the Viper and if you had to choose which one? Im been researching guns, and Kinda already had a scope, rings, and bases picked out.. But im not quite sure if I need to learn of a 7mm Rem mag... I quess I should ask how did you self teach your self?? Im a confident shooter and I like to picture my self as a great marksman lol but I know there alot more to be learned than what I know...

i really like the PST for the money the quality of glass the retical and all of the options that the scope offers it is nearly impossible to beat. the one thing i dont like about the viper vs the pst is the viper has alot less eye relif where the pst has 4". I am hoping that vortex keeps expanding the viper line and offers the new viper hs lr with the lrx retical in a second focal plane scope because if they do i will be trying one of them on my 257 and the viper will be relocated onto another rifle.

my advise for self teaching is do alot of reading. check out longrangehunting.com there is a welth of knowledge there. some of the top shooters and ballistic experts are on there. soak up all that you can about ballistics because the more you understand whats happening to the bullet and the rifle the more hits you will make. most importantly you will know why you made that hit and you will learn alot more from your misses if you know why you missed and why the bullet landed where it did.

#1. shoot, shoot, shoot, and shoot some more. also dont wait for the "good" days to go shoot at long range when the wind isnt blowing at all and its 72* go out and shoot when ever you can and practice in real world shooting. i never shoot off of a bench i always shoot off of the ground with my bipod and a rear bag and that it all. if you plan to start long range hunting you will need to gather some equipment.

#2 second most important thing is to gain confidence in your own ability. the more long range hits you make the more you gain and the easier it gets.

#3 as you start making those hits you will gain confidence in your rifle and you will find that when you do miss that you wont blame the rifle because with everything you have learned in #1-#2 you will understand if it really was the rifle or ammo's fault or if there was another reason that you missed. when you understand it wasnt th rifle's fault you will gain alot of confidence in your rifle which in turn boosts your self confidence and makes those shots easier.

#4 you cant shoot want you cant see so when you get to this point you will start to see where the less expensive optics have their short comings either in the magnification or the clarity or even just not having a useful long range retical. speaking of reticals deciding on what measure of correction you are going to use will play a major role in your optic selection. i use MOA because i can wrap my head around it alot easier then i can MILs. thinking of MOA as IPHY (inches per hundred yards) will work fine out to around 600 yards then when you start getting closer to 800 and 1000 thats when the 5% difference in IPHY and MOA starts showing up.

#5 if you dont know how far the target is you cant make an accurate long range shot and at 800 yards a 20 yard difference in range makes a 0.5 MOA difference in correction which is only 2 clicks on the scope but when you consider an antelope only has a 12" kill zone and your aiming for the center of it that 0.5 MOA or 4.2" difference in correction can easily mean the difference in a hit or a miss or a bad hit. i always dial my elevation correction for any shot beyond 300 yards.

#6 by the time you get to here you will already have learned how much the wind effects your shot so now you should start trying to figure that out before the shot instead of correcting for it after the shot. so a wind meter will be on your list of things to add to your pack at this point. without one making those 600-800 yard cold bore shots on those windy days will be near impossible.

when you get to that point you will already know where you need improvment and will be able to self decipline at this point or upgrade equipment if needed.

If you were not so far away we would get together and shoot. one of my buddys came out one day and wanted to try some extended range shooting. i set him up at 500 yards first thing. he didnt think he could hit it at all but after explaining the ballistics to him and how to correct for them he laid down on the bipod and put the very first round on the steel. he has been hooked on long range shoot since. he called me today infact asking me some questions.

go out and shoot :c: