Firearm Training and Terminology
 

After having a few friends get together they came to me and asked me to give them tips and help them understand the dynamics of tactical shooting situations.

ALL weapons were cleared and checked by me personally and I had every magazine set on my truck and confirmed every mag on all 5 of us were empty and after all clear we went to the front door of my home.

Since my wife was gone with my son I had the opportunity to give them a full training inside my home and to be honest their initial room clearing was pitiful to say the best even with all of them attempting to work together wasn't fast or productive at all.

So since I do not own an AR-15 but I have handled them many many times I borrowed my buddy John's RR and I started to go through a slow and descriptive CQB room clearing as a single man.

After having to describe every simple firearm term that I was using they started to understand and walked away from an hour of simple instruction and they had the tools and understanding to take home and start gaining muscle memory and increasing their speed and precision.

So here is where you come in! I am going to post a few terms that I use to teach and instruct when shooting or training. I will post some examples and you can post any terms that although rarely used are useful to know.

Gangsta Gripping Your Gat

What they imagined I was talking about
Attachment 25932

What I was meaning
Attachment 25933

If I we are ever training and I tell you to quit Gangsta Gripping Your Gat I am telling you to not use the Magwell as a grip for your off hand and to move your off hand up off of the Magwell to a forward position on the front stock.

Gangsta Gripping Your Gat is not at all a safe or effective way to hold your firearm. You will have more speed, control, and accuracy by moving your hand to a comfortable position on the front grip and if you need a vertical place for your off hand then you need ghetto/gangsta grips.

What I mean Ghetto grips or Gangsta Grips is a vertical front grip that gives you a firm comfortable place for your off hand that offers more control of the firearm when rapid firing or shooting on the move.

Attachment 25934

Hmm I wonder where the term Gangsta Grips came from.

Attachment 25935

Beer Canning a Mag

What you imagine
Attachment 25936

What I am describing
Attachment 25937

Beer canning a mag although is a good way to get a firm grip of your mag in a CQB situation so it cannot be slapped or stripped from your hand. But also it is a good way to ruin the Feed Neck of your magazine. If you must Beer Can your Mag instead of trying to just Jam it Into the firearm you need to place the rear of the feed neck of the magazine in the well and pivot the mag Into place.

Personally I have always liked L Mag reloading.

Attachment 25938

But you need big hands and it isn't for everyone. L Mag reloading is holding your new mag horizontal and pulling your empty mag using your ring and pinky fingers and then pivoting 90 degrees and sliding the new mag into the mag well. This allows a fast reload and you aren't dropping your magazine on the ground and beating it up.

What is your background.....what makes you a "qualified" trainer, where did you come up with your terms and definitions?

My EMT and Fire Instructor is a swat medic and he taught me everything I know about medical field and firefighting and we have been good buddies for three years. On occasion I have the opportunity to go out with him to a swat team training and learn a few things which I get a chance to once every two or three months.

My Grandfather was a Army combat medic in WWII and earned two bronze stars, he is the one who taught me how to properly handle and shoot a firearm.

My dad was a Marine and also on the honor guard at Arlington cemetery and he taught me how to reload my firearms on top of going over and teaching me more about shooting which was just a refresher of what my grandfather taught.

My brother was a Marine and when he got back from Afghanistan he purchased an AR-15 and taught me how to handle the firearm properly and how to use it for room clearing and tactical situations. His was a bushmaster with a bull barrel and lead weights in the stock for competition shooting but it worked just fine.

I have had a very fantastic opportunity as a civilian to learn how to properly use a firearm in tactical situations. I am no Certified trainer but I have had more educational opportunities for tactical firearm use than most civilians.

I'm not at all out for any drama. If you don't believe me then don't. I'm tired of fighting over trivial crap. I'm not out to start fights I'm just here to have fun and talk about anything that comes to mind.

Not drama.....just looking for fact based data.

Lots of what you have said comes across as somebody who has a little bit of knowledge...and no real training or experience to back up/support your claims & yet thinks you know/understand more than you actually do.

Good for your family history, but as we all know times change, tactics and procedures change...look at how the Army did handgun marksmanship in WWII compared to today...it's way way different...and the Army/military is always geared toward the slowest person in the class.

What you need to do prior to passing along information you think is good is to take a few structured courses taught by the guys who teach the operators/SWAT team guys...so you can really learn and understand how little you know now while dramatically improving your skill set's.....

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Go to these three different sites and post what you have above.....you think I'm a anus, jerk or whatever..... if your willing to listen and learn...and stay in your lane....then they are superb sites...sites I've been a member of for many years...

M4Carbine.net

Lightfighter Tactical Forum

10-8 Forums

I will say 12 Valve Ive never heard those stances called what you call em, but your also out there in eastern states. I have no tactical training, and everything I know is what I have picked up watching kill houses, and reading articles, I do have an action plan at my house if I ever encounter gunman, and I have to clear and check rooms.. But like I said in your GUN POST, we can put up what we know, and learn from others aint that what we are hear for???

Your in Colorado.....check out

Colorado - AR15.COM

And especially any posts by KellyH he puts on some quality training (both istol and AR) at a superb price

TTE Group Tactical Carbine I - NOV 17/18, 2012 - Denver CO (2nd class) - AR15.COM

At times other training pops up in that forum if ya watch it....

What Im realy intereasted in doing is competing in long range tactical shoots, not the boreing becnhrest 1000 yards shooting, but first I need a gun cabable of it. lol

Few places down in Colorado that does that & one or 2 in Wyoming.

That's some seriously hard stuff & takes lots of time & dedication not to mention a gun & optics. I've seen guys hit a 1/2 pint milk carton tied to a bush that's moving at 1K yards....

Yea they have one in puelblo that not so intense, but its has alot of amatuers and beginners doing it, and I would love to do it, that shoot is limitied to .223, and .308 I belive its in Pueblo Colorado, and thats a two hour drive. Something I want to do but its gonna be awhile. I learned some techniques from my Uncle and his friend who are marksmen in the army, but thats all I got rest if self teaching!! but I need more instruction before I begin doing that...

I'm being honest here and just for the sake of conversation. Why should I pay to take a class when I can go and learn from the swat team for free?

They have taught me most of what I know about room clearing and I could go every month to training if I really wanted to.

All the better then!!! Id soak in everthing I could, Im only 20, and have a younger bro thats 18, and weve been lucky enough to try out different kinds of competions such as 3 gun shoots, and quick draws, mid range tactical. But for me I have no one to get instruction from, its just me, and my 100 acre shooting range with six targets... You can only learn what you wan to, if you like to try and do kill house comps that be the people to learn from... Put that is also one swat team, you can proably come and learn from the local swat team here and the techniqeus would vastly be different. as they say Variety is the spice of life... But speaking of the local swat team, they did a gun man drill at the school I go. The police damanded that it could not be a surprise drill for obvious reasons, and also we had to be alerted to not retaliate with out 3 inch wrenches and who ever pickup was on the lift not to return fire lol

I've done a few from them but I don't want to drag down their trainings because of my bad back I'm not as fast as others with CQB so after the first run though full speed my leg starts numbing up and I have to slow down.

They are very open to it and have given me a chance to have a great learning atmosphere! One thing you could try is training with lead weights in your rifle for kill box and when you go to competitions the gun will be lighter and you will have an improvement on turning speed!

hmm, so much stuff its just crazy! my uncle is SPEC OPS somewhere and he only used a glock 17 for CQB and he can hit apples at 20 paces like no ones buisness, then he had me put an apple that was suppose to be civilian, he never skipped a beat! its crazy when you have the time, and ammo, and instruction how skilled they can be!

Are you serious here...that statement in itself says volumes about you....

Who do you think trains the swat team....or do they learn it from books and videos?

What's to say the swat team is doing it the best they can....you can't as that's all you know...who is training them....why not open your mind and broaden your skill set...

It's just like going to fire school, you could learn it from guys on the department...or ya could pay to go get quality training...and learn the correct way...then bring back new ideas and skills...Do fire fighters train, go to different training...flashover simulators...burn houses....with different instructors...

Do you really think face shooters take a class and then just sit around training themselves...or do they look for more training, building on the basic skill sets...and improving...

I know a guy who was shot and now in a wheelchair for the rest of his entire life....he takes training from some of the best schools in the country....in a wheel chair...it's about mindset...learning and building new skills...weapon manipulation drills...

When I was EST many years ago we trained with multiple police departments, different military schools and a few private places...it was all about learning new skill sets, trying different drills...My EST team took on the FBI HRT and a DOE anti terrorist team in a hijacking of a RC135 aircraft scenario.

We kicked butt & beat both the other teams....to much suprize...

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Different teams, different mindset and skill set....

Have a good friend who is a retired 18D and he will be the 1st to tell you while he did lots of shooting with different firearms that was secondary to his primary skill set....and his handgun skills were good enough....but he hates shooting handguns and they are nothing more than a tool to him.

Many many years ago I had the chance to hit the range for a few hours with a couple guys in the Navy....and burn some serious ammo out of MP5SD's and a few 1911's & other weapons....learned quite a bit from the short range session.

The more quality training ya do the better you are.....

Ya know ramprat not everyone has the mass of disposable cash to go run around to get training. I am doing the best with what I have.

How about I build my assault rifle first?

What works for one person may not work for another so you have your way and I have mine. What you do might work for you but that doesn't mean it will work for me or anyone else in that matter.

Don't ridicule someone because of how they want or have the only way they can learn.

Yeah I went to fire college and learned it from instructors but half of the instructors work as firefighters also. Just because someone lets you in on a normal training sessions doesn't mean that they aren't an instructor.

Ohhhh, somebody is getting thier feathers ruffled....

You are 100% correct....so don't hang a bunch of crap off a AR15 weapon that is worthless and makes you look like a fool on he range...unless you like looking like a fool.....

Save the money, buy quality mags and ammo.....and a little training...

All that stupid crap does on your weapon is declare to the world you are insecure, don't know your weapon system and need to hang all kinds of "kool kid" crap off of it to make up for your shortcomings in marksmanship and skills....but you do not even know that much...as your wanting the kool kid crap instead of learning the basics first.....

Take a look at the quiet professionals, what they run on their weapon systems....and then learn from them....

Oh and it's not a "assault rifle" so why don't you learn proper terminology before building it....

If they are not assault rifles then what are they called? Assault rifles is the one most common and apparently politcaly correct term for ar-15s , ak-47's sks, and bla bla bla, to me every gun is a sporters gun and another tool in the tool box... I do say, yes you need to learn marksmans ship, and actually find what is completly neccesary to have on your rifle, a good sights, and stock, a good and fast resseting trigger( i think the trigger is the heart and soul of marksmanship)

Spot on about learning marksmanship 1st and foremost...if you can find a Appleseed event i your area they are superb...cheap...and come with a history lesson as well...I've been to appleseed events where guys have had AR15's..and all kinds of tactical kool junk hanging off of them...lasers, lights, bipods and other crap...and slowly the crap comes off till it's just the rifle and iron sights....as the shooter can not even zero his weapon, has no idea how his BUIS works and the red optic was junk...and even with a good red dot optic at a Appleseed event...you are at a disadvantage due to the size of that dot....and Appleseeds are all about learning basic fundamental marksmanship....

Easy......the liberal gun hatting liberal/progressive media has "brain washed" people into thinking any black rifle is a "assault rifle" cuz it's scary....or if it has high capacity "clips" or magazines....or even a bayonet lug...just about anyting the media and politicians do not like becomes an "assault rifle"

An assault rifle is a select-fire (either fully automatic or burst capable) rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine. It is not to be confused with assault weapons.[1] Assault rifles are the standard service rifles in most modern armies. Assault rifles are categorized in between light machine guns, which are intended more for sustained automatic fire in a light support role, and submachine guns, which fire a pistol cartridge rather than a rifle cartridge.

Examples of assault rifles include the StG 44, AK-47,[2] M16 rifle, QBZ-95, INSAS, Heckler & Koch G36, and Enfield SA80.

Assault rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I learned hands down Wikipedia is not a credible source and is even said to be not a credible source even from the website itself

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Academic_use

Also even if it is only a semi auto firearm then all you need is a bump fire stock and that allows you to have "selective" fire. Allowing the user to go fully automatic and you don't need a Class III approval and is completely BATFE exempt and comes with the certification and paperwork when you buy the slide fire stock.

Woza, you really like pouring gasoline on a fire don't ya....

How is this then as you do not want to accept a wiki definition...
It is Army intelligence document FSTC-CW-07-03-70 from November 1970, and was also published in later editions. The book is "Small Arms Identification and Operation Guide - Eurasian Communist Countries", written by Harold E. Johnson. It was prepared by what at the time was the U.S. Army Foreign Science and Technology Center of the Army Material Command.

The quote itself is on page 67 of this edition in section III, part A, paragraph 68a, and reads as follows:

"Assault rifles are short, compact, selective-fire weapons that fire a cartridge intermediate in power between submachinegun and rifle cartridges."

The paragraph concludes by adding:

"Assault rifles have mild recoil characteristics and, because of this, are capable of delivering effective full-automatic fire at ranges up to 300 meters."

So there we have the "official US Army definition": select-fire, full-automatic fire, and an intermediate cartridge.

And that is that.....:c: :c:

Now about your bump fire stock......that is NOT considered class III by the ATF or the military...it DOES NOT alter the mechanical action but is a result of the recoil using an after market part and pulling the trigger each time....you can also bump fire with a rubber band if you know what you are doing...it does NOT turn your weapon into a selective fire weapon.....and does not allow you to go full auto...as selective fire and full auto is defined as more than one round fired with a single pull of the trigger....where bump firing is actually pulling the trigger for each round...

Thus end your schooling for the post :s::s::s::s::s::c::c:

Yea if I can ever find an Apples Seed event I will give it a try! I highly hate Red dots for any ranges past 10 yards, for me they get in the way, What I realy like are low profile Iron sights, a good foreend, and a Fixed stock not an Collasable stock. Im still in college and this is my last semester and with a good paying job I hope, that I can broad my learning and shooting skills. I shoot bolt guns extensively, The gun I shoot the most is my Remington 700 SPS Varmint in 22-250, which I handload for and on a very good day, and when my Crappy Bushnell banner wants to grab light I have shoot a .42'' group and made a 527 yard shot on a prarie dog (Took two shots but I got him). I dont belive in using lasers and lights except for my Home Defense guns even then I carry a Maglight and use a technique My uncle taught me for defending my home, which I have yet to do, but pretend to every now and then... But my Biggest intrest is Long Range Precision shooting, and I would like to do the Tactical Competions Using a well made prescion rifle (Not a Sniper rifle) even snipers frown upon the word sniper rifles.. But at this very moment Im am leaning handgun skills since my 18 year old brother was so kind as to pay for my glock 22 :jump: awesome gift. My brother enjoys the 3 gun shoots and he has bought guns to do competions, hes saving for a good shotgun at the moment, but hopefully he can join a club down in Arizona and participate in that!

A good appleseed is well worth it and its like $40 for 2 full days of quality marksmanship....learning how to shoot instead of looking cool with goofy stuff hanging off your rifle...Saw one guy with a 22 conversion in his AR and iron sights out shoot lots of people, he knew his weapon and how to shoot....

Red dots have their place, but they fall under weapon for the mission & not one gun fits all...

Long range can be fun, but I've gotten away from it as my eyes are getting old and tired...up close and personal is where I'm at now...

Dude you need to just back off of me. I am sick of your attitude constantly barging in on my threads causing conflict.

Quit provoking me man I have done nothing to deserve your attitude and I am getting tired of it.

Dude.....I've had my concealed carry permit since 1984ish (except the years I was stationed overseas and it expired) have taken quite a few weapon courses & partook in such things as shoot houses before they became main stream.....have been a USAF range officer, started out as a armorer & worked my way up to the NCOIC of a Security Police armory...provided security to Presidential and other royal aircraft, flown on Nightwatch......had my own M21 rifle when on the EST (SWAT) team & sat on a roof with a SAS guy (and my M21) in direct support of the Queen of England..

I've pissed my pants in fear after getting shot at the 1st time....puked my guts out at the sight/smell of dead bodies, had/have nightmares and cold sweats among other issues due to shit I've seen and done....but somehow I've managed to do what needed to be done at that time due to training and learned what worked and did not work the hard way.....

You started things, talking about training and then calling your new AR15 build a "assault" rifle & then on to what selective fire was and that bump firing was full auto & such ....

You were proved wrong and you went and poured gas on the fire trying to be a wisw guy.....so once again the fact based data proved you wrong instead of your guesses and just wrong assumptions and silly ideas on your part.

Now you are crying that your being picked on due to your posting dumb stuff...and being proven wrong once again....It's called constructive criticism, learn from it instead of getting your feelings hurt and trying to cry foul....that's the sign of a immature crybaby when they get spanked and then try claiming foul for being stalked and picked on.

If you would have posted quality information, stuff that was correct and did not have the potential to get somebody in trouble, hurt or killed I'd agree with you and call it good.

Bottom line is don't go talking shit about "training" when you do not know what your talking about and expect to get a pass... :c: :c: :c:

There is no constructive criticism to your attitude.

Now I have requested to have this thread locked because it is going no where and once again you have ruined a post.

Good job.

Dude, your funny..:lol88::lol88::lol88:lollollollol

Just for the record, you have around 1,326 posts....yet in only a very small number of threads (less than 5-8 I'm guessing) have I ever interacted with you.....thus either I'm not stalking/following you around...or you just happen to post stupid stuff on/in few threads about stuff solidly in my lane....and I've spoken up against you & hurt your tender feelings.

Just be a man & admit when your wrong...it's called personal responsibility.....we all can't be right 100% of the time...

You aren't being man enough to admit when you ruin posts for no reason but to cause conflict.

We all can't be right 100% of the time and you are correct. But I'm guessing you believe that you are one of the few that can be right 100% of the time. With your attitude of you are always correct and everyone else brings up an idea that you don't like they are always wrong.

Now I have asked you to back off and leave me alone. Now I am asking you nicely to stay away from causing conflict with me. It's clear that we cannot get along and I did not do anything to bring you into this thread to cause conflict.

This could have been a fun and educational thread but you have ruined another thread yet again with the attitude and constantly following the posts I create to cause conflict.

Now you are a grown man so perhaps you can see where picking on a 22 year old that has had a tough life is something that is wrong for you to do. You constantly attack my intelligence and manhood and it is degrading and uncalled for.

I don't come here to argue with anyone but you make a point to jump into literally every thread I make to cause conflict.

I am asking you nicely to please stop.

Closed at OP request...

Wish the two of you could just work it out, or get a divorce...