I have heard of people using in the LB7 to keep the injectors lubed. So if it would help keep my injectors healthy, i am all for it. But if it has no chance of helping them, i am not gonna waste my money.

:humm:I don't have any friends with a duramax that I can ask:nope:

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Save your money for the injectors:w2::w2::w2:

Already have money set back for WHEN the injectors go out. Hopefully i wont hae to use it for a few years.

I'm not going to add anything to my fuel or oil, I'm not going to remove my DPF before my warranty is finished:humm:

Jsut educating myself here. Wouldnt try anything until see some proof of benefits. Kinda like someone saying "yeah my stock truck will do a buck fifty..... Prove it!!"

I apologize for the incorrect link - it worked when I clicked on it. Here it is again:



http://www.johnfjensen.com/Diesel_fu...itive_test.pdf

:spit:

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Thanks Dr. Evil!
That was a pure in-depth study. Looks like the Shaffer Diesel treat 2000 or the other better brands is going into my truck. I am not going to use 2 stroke. IT does not recommend the use of it, nor any of the others. and for all of us recommending our personal opinions on an additive. We could be liable for any problems that happen. If somebody use a product that works for me and not them. I could be held accountable. SO I obviously cannot retract any of my posts. But I will negate all my posts henceforth to the time of 1101 PST -8GMT. On 08-21-2010 with the understanding that this does not protect me.

So the gentilman was right do not put any fuel additive in your truck.

You know Marvel has been around for a long time. I don't think they have been filed against. So they must be doing something right. More study needs to be done.
Rustin

So according to that study, the 2-stroke oil in the fuel does have SOME benefit for those of us with older trucks, but there are better performing fuel additives out there. That was a good study and VERY useful one at that.

Is there anyway we can get a mod to make that link a sticky in the fuel additive section for future reference in any corresponding thread??:tu:

Most definetly this could stop some of the OPINION DRIVEN DRAMA I will call it ODD, yeah you know me. :tttt:

It could be, it might be, i thin it IS the be all, end all to the fuel additive argument. :jump::jump:

:c:

Physics. A small amount of lubricating oil does not change the chemistry of Diesel fuel and that small amount of oil does not contain any additional BTU's over Diesel fuel. Those two facts alone disprove any claimed gains in power, economy or perceived engine operation.

Anecdotes like "the engine runs smoother" are not any form of proof.

As does GM, Cummins, Mercedes, Volkswagen, BMW, Cat, Detroit, Mack, International, Nissan, Volvo, Mitsubishi, Deutz, Perkins, etc etc.

Sorry, that is flat out false.

That is also flat out false. Lead is an additive that reduced detonation and lubricated valve seats, lead was a functional addition to gasoline.
Sulfur has zero benefits, its a natural contaminant. The closer Diesel is to being sulfur free the better it is for EVERYONE.

And using even B2 BioDiesel wipes all of them off the map.

Sorry, that is flat out false.

Yes i agree removing the sulfur is better for the enviroment however the process by which it is done creates fuel that is harsher to older diesel engines and if you dont believe that then that is your right. That is why there are additives. Also the main reason of a additive i believe is not to change the chemistry of the fuel but to lubricate the various parts of the fuel systems.

If you were to follow the discussion.....thats is exactly why the refinery puts in its own additives.

That is flat out wrong. There are additives because people will buy them.
Its the exact same for any market. Nobody needs a Snuggie since any blanket will do the exact same thing, but marketing has convinced many people that they would somehow benefit from buying one.

Too bad you're doing nothing that isn't already being done. AKA, money down the toilet.

If you had the slightest clue what you are talking about you would know that the lube adds are not introduced at the refinery. That has to do with FAA regulations WRT pipeline control.

You ever used any fuel adds? Any personal experience to back up your claims? What about professional qualifications? Work in the diesel engine industry, maybe a petrochemical engineer or something like that?

Why should anyone believe what you say? You have provided no information other than your dubious word to convince me of the veracity of your position.

Yes i have been following it.


With that logic then a factory diesel should be perfect with everone and no preformance parts should be made. However i see your cars are modded pretty well.

I am not trying to be a :asshat: or start drama. But I know what I know and i have been around older diesels since I can remember so i know they ran better before ulsd and they still run like crap if i dont add anything to the fuel i buy.

Just in case you missed. An actual study done with various additives (even 2-stroke) that shows the gain, no matter minimal they are, there is still a gain. is it worth it?? that is for you to decide.

yeah i read the study and know i just wish i could get my hands on some bio-diesel.

um, no you don't, it maybe the best lubricating, but you lose power and fuel economy, so it depends on what you wanna do with the truck, do you wanna get the best mileage possible and most power you're gonna want to use regular diesel, but if you want optimal fuel system lubrication then a bio blend would be good

mixing just 2% shouldnt drop mileage and power that much plus i would take a little drop in mileage or power knowing that my system is staying lubed.

the state of Minnesota has mandated a 2% bio diesel blend in all fuels for sometime now, I would run a 2% blend probably too, but anything over that i'd say no to, only bio-blend i can get around here is 20% during the summer and 5% during the winter due to the bio fuel gelling at a higher temperature than regular fuel

do you even read any of the posts?

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I'm pretty sure I posted this a year ago, but here's more banter on it.

Freel2.com - View topic - 2-stroke oil and diesel

I found it very interesting that they've been doing similar things in Europe, with DPF equipped vehicles. There's even been some testing done by Mercedes and some German University apparently. The author of the thread stated that at his annual emissions test, he's seen a 30-50% reduction in soot and particulate, and his DPF regen cycle interval has gone from ~600km to about 1000km. All with ashless or low ash oil and not fully synthetic 2-stroke oil.

I've been using a little 2-stroke in the gassers as a UCL for many years. How's that for fuel additive sacriledge? :scare2:

You are always going to have two camps in these discussion/arguments. There are the ones who do stuff because they heard about, tried it and know it works for them. Then there's others others who have some religious belief against it because it's not the way the automotive gods intended.

To each his own... :c:

Exactly. Yes, the Government stipulates that ULSD is supposed to have a certain degree of lubrication in it but I feel that fuel is still too dry. Ever looked at a diesel pump that has fuel spilled all over? Before ULSD it was a real greasy mess, after ULSD you dont see the greasy mess anymore. Now, Im not certain that means anything but injector pumps are $$ and Id rather spend an extra couple of buckes per tank to keep my injector pumps happy - which keeps me happy (for the most part).

Your vastly incorrect statement has been corrected for you.

The FAA has nothing to do with highway vehicles.

Why waste my money on garbage? The cost of 1 gallon of useless additive will buy me 5 gallons of fuel.

I have yet to see any from you.

Bingo.

Things known as "factual proof", "science" and "reality".

Your mind is set deep in concrete. No amount of chipping away faith with facts can alter your personal reality.

In that case its simply lack of understanding.

You have poor logic. Fuel lubricity and the desire for more power are two completely unrelated topics.

Thats called "wear" and "age". You know, loss of compression, increased oil consumption, etc etc.
Blaming ULSD on performance/longevity/failures is nothing more than a scapegoat to make up for lack of proper diagnosis.

That is false blanket statement. Mixtures up to 20%, maximum currently allowed by any engine manufacturer, produces no discernible change. Its not until the B50-B100 range that a reduction in power and economy becomes consistently measurable, but by using that high mixture your engine and fuel system warranty will be voided (yes, they can and will test for it if they suspect).

B2 and B5 will perform better than any additive on store shelves with no negative effects and for many times cheaper per gallon.

Thats not physically possible, and he is being misleading;
Simply adding 2-stroke oil does not change the fuel chemistry.
A "30-50% difference" is an extremely small amount on a car with a DPF.
Regen cycles are very dependent on driving conditions. Lacking a controlled test environment and having a driver knowing about the test and looking for results, his driving habits subconsciously change. This is true for ANY test, thats why actual science tests use placebos and other devices to eliminate subjective bias.

That has actual merit.
Gasoline is a solvent and its injected during the intake stroke so it naturally washes oil from the cylinder walls. That is the exact application 2-stroke oil was designed for! The only difference is that its not lubricating the bottom end as well.

Oh, end of discussion, HE FEELS its still too dry. :tu:

Thats because station managers have been keeping their stations cleaner than ever. People don't want to buy fuel from a grease pit.

And it keeps useless additive makers VERY happy!

You realy are some genius. Of course it has nothing to do with highway vehicles, Capt obvious. The pipeline regulations enabling quality control and preventing contamination are for the aviation industry, dumbass. Hence your statement about the lube adds proving as I stated, you have no clue what you are talking about.

Yeah, its pointless to argue with someone that knows everything about everything.

What color is the sky in your world?

Mercedes, huh?
 

:w2: Aiight, then. I got the time, if you got the reading comprehension....
Congratulations - my 11 year-old daughter knows that.
And you likely won't. I speak from personal experience.
SO, what part of the diesel industry would we be talking about? Where every 10th vehicle you dump the oil from at the quickie lube

happens to be a diesel? And you refill it with the wrong grade of bulk from your oil-pumper?
Uh, yeaaaah. Those things mysteriously absent from any post you've made.
Thanks for not trying - I really DO appreciate that!
As opposed to an arrogant attitude?
It's hard to make power when the engine doesn't run because the IP is prematurely worn from a lack of lubricity.
Ever wonder what is the primary factor in the "wear" of fuel pumps and injectors?
Tell that to the guys over at Central Motive here in Denver. I'm sure you are familiar with them being local, right? They are a Bosch pump shop and have a little of the "personal experience" stuff in this particular area of the diesel industry, which you seem to be lacking. Get back to us on that, 'kay?
So then you DO agree there may be a need for it? Or not? Which is it now, I forget.
Chemistry? I though we talking about burning stuff in a compression-ignition engine and what happens with the stuff burning as it goes from the fuel tank to the exhaust tip. Lesse, we got chemistry, physics, thermodynamics, hydraulics, fluid dynamics, what else? You really wanna go there? Bring it baby!!! Woo hoo!!
I'd characterize the content here more as to how documented experience trumps theoretical conjecture based on nothing of substance.
Your grasp of the obvious is astonishing. Let me repeat: ...That is the exact application 2-stroke oil was designed for.." What application was that again? Lubricating, did you say? Lubrication in conjunction with combustion? Did I hear that right? Like in what happens to it/with it when it is mixed in diesel fuel?
No, this discussion is just getting started, from my perspective, and the good Dr. shares his feelings with alot more than you might suspect. That is an objective observation you have miserably failed to change despite the quippy replies.
OK, I wasn't even going to comment on that one, but since it's such a S T R E T C H, I'll just say; Bwaaaa, haa, ha!!!!
Been keeping my 2 Cummins diesels (you know the ones in trucks, where REAL diesel technology lives?) happy for almost 4 years now. I expect those stock injectors and pumps will be lasting quite a long time - all the while reading the horror stories about failed same on forums like this. :humm:

let me see if my fuel can not lubricate my fuel system properly then whatever i put on to help preformance is basicly on wasted money such as the money you claim is wasted on additives

Its not a scapegoat if its true and guess what i know when my trucks and equipment have wear and tear. Also i take good care of my trucks because mine are my second income they are not just play toys.

that has no context to what he was talking about. Since you are a diesel tech you should know that the fuel we buy know has almost a gritty texture to it were before ulsd the fuel was smooth and gressy


also since you keep talking about the additives not chemcially altering the fuel and i may be wrong but nitrous and propane and water/meth do not change the fuel on a chemical level however they increase power and they also increase the amount of burn of diesel.
Once again this statement maybe wrong but that is my understanging of those additives

as previously stated... us "rednecks" should just stop arguin wit that there fancy science man and jus keep to ourselves and our highly lubricated daisel mowters.:c:

lol
I think someone has been running too much of his own 'additive'...maybe lay off the whisky a little :w2:

apparently I was wrong about the poor power and lower fuel economy using bio blends, but i know for a fact with my truck i experienced both of those symptoms while using bio, power wasn't terribly noticeable but it was there and fuel economy was gauged by driving the same way i always do and it did go down

Obviously people have different opinions of weather or not 2 stroke helps your IP and injectors, such as the same people probably have different opinions of what FI stands for. But can we all please get along :moon::c:

for a dollar :c:

dont drink the whisky...that was my poor impression of accent transfered through the computer:w2:

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lol... i agree tho. this is very comparable to a die hard ford guy arguing with a die hard chevy guy on whose truck is better and why. we all have our own opinions and preferences with our trucks. there are more than likely scientific facts that prove true for both sides of the fence. as for me i will continue to run 2 cyc in my diesel bc thats what i do and it gives me my own little piece of mind untill im shown it will cause damage. except for calling it a redneck idea. :bat::bat:

I saw you all talking about bio-diesel! then saw some more ODD (Opinioon Driven Drama) Crap! LOL your all ODD! one of you is out there! as far as bio-diesel is concerned. there has been tests after tests. and it boils down to standards. the home brewer such as my self cannot afford to test to meet the standards. I am after turning WVO (Waste vegetible oil) to like diesel very hard process. My truck responds well to the bio that I have brewed. No gains in fuel economy, I do get a small gain in performance. the truck sounds real good with it. I do not go more then 20% blend. I have seen some problems with this tho. My sending unit was cloged becuase the Bio was such a solvent that the lining in the fuel tank ended up in the filtration sytem, and then it cloged the filters in the sending unit. It also cuased some oxidization (Rust) to some sensitive parts. possibly to much water in the sytem from the Bio process. So ther is my info and discovery on that. but that has to do with home brewing of Bio-Diesel, not commercial Bio-Diesel. they have some real set standards to meet. and to let most of you know. most of the fuel additives or injector cleaning agents are Bio-diesel based. That is some of their main ingrediants!
thank you!
Rustin

I don't know about ODD, but I DO know you can stand next to a Cummins truck while it's idling on ULSD, pour a quart of 2-stroke in the fuel tank and within a half minute hear the injector and (on a VP44) pump noise go down. :hellox:

That's not opinion. Noise translates to wear in this drama. That's a fact. :pca1:

yeah but you know you're a knucklehead right? :c:

haha I wasn't referring to you but that's okay :c: