Propane + Methanol
 

I have a 97 with a big chip and propane. I am currently exploring the cheapest way to add horsepower. I have come to the conclusion that methanol is probably my next best step. I'm sure I'll be safe (horsepower wise) with this addition. My concern is with future additions. My questions to you are: #1 What (flywheel) horsepower is the threshold for my stock head bolts? #2 What (flywheel) horsepower is the threshold for my stock connecting rods? #3 I have an egt sensor located in the downpipe just after the turbo (on the 90). Where do you suppose my limits are with that set-up?

Its time to stop with the drugs man... Your aditicted.

First off, move your pyro probe pre turbo, drill and tap the manifold or drill and clamp on the up pipes.

Second, there is no safe HP with all the drugs your mixing, its a recipe for a blown motor.

Boost pressures are what pop heads, about 40psi if your heads have never been off, and about 35-38 otherwise. If your hitting those numbers all the time, get yourself some studs.

Stock Forged rods with good tuning are good for about 600rwhp... 550-600 seems to be where most go boom.

Flywheel numbers mean nothing to anyone on these sites, no one knows what they are so they are no used. RWHP is what you need to know.

Sell the propane kit, and get yourself some hybrids (injectors) then you will have about 100-150hp more then you do now... and a much safer set up.

CSIPSD I greatly appreciate the input.

I'm not moving the sensor, just looking for a good number where it is. I have to believe the numbers would vary between manifold and up pipes also, although probably not as drasticly.

It makes sense that boost pressure would be a good indicator of the combustion chamber forces, but I have to believe horsepower would be a better indicator (assuming the timing isn't way off or some other problem). I will keep the boost pressure in mind. I dont want to buy studs unless the bolts go, Thats why I asked.

I understand that an automatic transmission gets about 80% of the flywheel HP to the rear wheels and a manual about 90%. So if you quote me a rear wheel HP. let me know auto or manual and I'll do the math.

I don't have the money to get the power the drug free way or my sig. would look like yours. If she blows, I have a spare. Thanks.

You can get a set of Superduty AD injectors for about $800... You can sell your propane, not buy the water/meth injection and get a set of Stage 2 injectors for $1300 or so...

There are also DIY injector kits out there that (if you are mechanicly inclinded) can be had for about $800 or so.

With Propane, water meth and your little AA injectors (about 90cc) you would be lucky to break 300-320 RWHP...

With a set of stage 2's you would be unlucky not to break 350... and have that power all the time, with lower Cylinder pressures, better MPH and lower boost pressures...

I have pictures of a 1000* EGT red line...


Makes a dandy pen holder now.:w2:

Now I have to buy the meth kit and hit the dyno. It may take several months, but I will give you the chance to say, "I told you so!"

Still looking for responses from others to my original question and to confirm what CSIPSD has said. Thanks to all.

he is right about the pyro probe reading after the turbo is not a good idea because it does flucuate so much...basically he was right in all that he said.

Diesels work on this principle for power...fuel+air=power. You keep adding oxydizers to burn fuel that is already being burnt properly, and also it really doesnt matter how "big" of a chip you have your stock injectors can only flow so much fuel no matter what the computer tells it too, and the stock injectors in a 97 PS arent really what you would call performance injectors.

And yes flywheel HP doesnt mean shit to me (no offfense) the only people that use flywheel HP is the car manufactures and they are just trying to sell a product.

The heads will lift because of boost not horsepower...think of hooking up an air line into a pop bottle.

The connecting rods in the PS seem to not like over 500 neither do the pistons see CSIPSD pen holder for example.

You can cram all the propane and meth into the cylinder you could possibly fathom but without enough fuel for those things to blend with and help burn more completely then its worthless.

We are honestly just giving you opinions to help you save money and help you get to your goal for your truck not to be dicks...

I wont have to say I told you so, because I have been there, done that... Only differance was my 97 was a cali unit and had AB injectors from the factory... (120cc)

Do a quick scan for DIY injectors... Might be suprized how cheap they are...:w2:

I could buy diy injectors for 250, get a machine shop to mod the pistons for say 100. My stock 15* hpop won't be ideal, so maybe 470 for an adrenaline hpop, now I need a new chip and I don't want to skimp anywhere if i'm going to do this without regrets, so 400 for a chip-and don't get me wrong, I'd love to have this set-up. By good approximation and some experience I estimate 188 stock rear wheel horsepower, + 72 from the chip, =260 RWHP. With all the money listed above, I could get 188 + 112 = 300 RWHP. 112 w/injectors minus 72 without = 40 hp gain divided into the grand total of $1220 = $30.50 per 1 horsepower. At that rate I would be foolish not to get stage 2's for another $500 48 more hp for 500$ is only $10.41 per hp. In conclusion: $1720 for extra 88hp = $19.55 per h.p. The water/meth kit I'm looking at runs $350 and I'v seen testimonials on this site claiming 70 rwhp. with wal-mart washer fluid. $350 divided by 70hp. = $5 per hp. Even if my numbers are way off you get the idea.

Maximum head lifting force must be achieved because of detonation. ie. burning the fuel + air. Fuel and air are not equal, but roughly proportional. wouldn't the amount of fuel be just as good an indicator as boost? If it were only air (no fuel - no detonation) The forces on each headbolt could be calculated precisely. Pressure of air(atmospheric plus boost) times the compression ratio divided by number of bolts. If we did this math you'd see 40 psi isn't nearly enough to overcome the tensile creep parameters of the bolts.
So it must be fuel and air and detonation. (power). I will not argue that boost is not a good indicator and easy to witness. It is not, however, the independant cause.

Think of it as putting an air line into a pop bottle and increasing the pressure without letting any air escape. A pop bottle will hold an incredible amount of pressure. Now do the same thing with a splash of gasoline in the bottle and a fuse. Somebody's getting hurt.

I know you guys are not dicks. Quite the opposite for helping me out. I like to argue but don't know how to do it without pissing people off. I'm having, fun let's keep it going! I left plenty of points to take exception with.

I will not quote ya, just because its a pain to read...

Its your motor. Drugs are bad, and will kill your motor in short order.

Lets start at this, what are your HP goals?

On a OBS with a chip, intake and exhaust you can be in the 260 range for RWHP...

Chip, Intake, Exhaust and ProPAIN (higher CP, Detenation and timing issues) you might make it to 300 RWHP

Chip, Intake, Exhaust, ProPAIN, and Water/Meth you might make it to 320RWHP or so. At that point you will have a truck that will knock so bad it will scare you, it will be beating your rods, block, mains, and every other moving piece to trash. You will have that HP only when the switches are on and the water and propane are full.

Chip, Intake, Exhaust, and a set of Stage 1's will put you right at 300RWHP, you will have a truck that is easy to drive, little if any smoke, better MPG and your not beating your motor to death. You do not need an HPOP upgrade at this point, just drive it.

Chip, Intake, Exhaust and a set of stage 2's will put you right at 350-400, and again, you will not need a HPOP upgrade. Yes in some of the higher HP settings you will have a ICP code, but so what, it will still be more fun to drive then the rattling pain you are thinking of.

Chip, Intake, Exhaust and a set of hybrid injectors will put you well over 400, but you will start breaking other things at that point, and will need a turbo and IC to really take advantage of them.

Look at my sig, thats a 450-525 range right there, its very expensive. Mine is sitting like shown in the driveway right now waiting on a new motor again.:ouch:

Chip, Intake, Exhaust, and a set of Stage 1's will put you right at 300RWHP, you will have a truck that is easy to drive, little if any smoke, better MPG and your not beating your motor to death. You do not need an HPOP upgrade at this point, just drive it.


idk why your saying you can only get about 300 RWHP out of stage ones and that they will only smoke alittle, because with custome tunes and the stuff you listed will get you up to almost 350 RWHP with bigger tunes such as extreme tunes and such., i would recomend a better turbo to reach that but 350 RWHP is very easy to get out of stage one injectors. and they will smoke alot if you get a chip that is tuned for it and stuff.

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But other wise i really do agree with you on every thing else. TWINBOYS thier is nothing worse for your truck than stuff your putting into it, i wanted water/meth untill some custome tuners told me they would suggest straght water due to the amount of blow head gaskets they have seen.

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And CSIPSD please dont be mad over what i have said, im sure you know alot about diesels but from what i know thats what you can get out of stage ones im not trying to fight with you or anything im just simply saying thats all so please dont get upset over this