6.0 rough start and rough Idle
 

Hey guys its been awhile..........

2004 f250 85,000 miles
arp head studs OEM gaskets
90hp over injectors
new hpop
airdog
fuel regulator spring upgrade
sct with tunes from Eric
full EGR delete
Tested the FICM

Its cranking a little to much to get fired up and runs like it has a damn lope tune until the oil temp reaches 100 degrees. After that it will run smooth MOST of the time. Sometimes it will still idle weird but no where near what it is under 100 degrees. I dont think it is a high pressure oil problem because when its hot its fine....... Oil temp and Coolant temp run at about 180 175 usually about 5 degrees off from eachother. Fuel pressure is always above 60. Not sure what else to check?? Had it hooked up at the dealership and another shop. They say nothing is wrong but i know better. Any ideas???

I would hook up a scanner when its cold. let sit overnight and first thing in the morning, do an injector buzz test and listen to the injector clicks all should sound the same

Well was any of this work done recently? Who's injectors, and what the heck is a 90hp injector? Most are given in cc ratings, ie stock is 135cc, upgrades are 155cc, 175cc, 190cc etc.

It says new HPOP, was that just put in? What oil are you using and what oil filter? What's your fuel pressure? Probably need to monitor ICP desired, ICP actual, and IPR duty % to see what is going on.

HPOP was put in about 3,000 miles ago. Im holding 70 psi fuel and all motorcraft filters. Rotella T oil. They are 155cc injectors from river city. I know the injectors are good but just looking in other directions now.

You do? Were they built from new injectors? This wouldn't be the first time I've heard of issues with RCD injectors... I remember watching some youtube vids of a very unhappy customer with issues exactly like what you're saying. How old are the injectors? I'd be getting a cylinder contribution test done myself.

After 3k miles, the HPOP should be fully bled by now. You could monitor ICP desired against ICP actual, while watching IPR % duty cycle as well. That would tell you if the high pressure oil system is working correctly, which I suspect it is because it gets better as it gets warm. If there was a leak or air, it'd be opposite of this.

Out of curiosity, how old are the batteries? I would have them load tested. Also when you tested the FICM, did you test it in all 3 conditions? Did you test it cold or warm? It really should be tested cold. This sounds like classic FICM issues, which if you say is good, then it's classic injector issues.

I recently had a similar experience. Yours may not be the same, but I thought I would throw it out there.

I was experiencing longer crank times to start my 2005 6.0, and rough running until it warmed up. I too assumed it was a temperature issue. Finally one day my truck started slow from cold, ran a bit rough, and died after a couple blocks and wouldn't restart.

It was towed to the nearest Ford dealer. It wasn't throwing any codes and it really confused them. They were able to get it to stall one more time, but no code.

Turned out that even though my batteries tested fine, it was the batteries. Apparently these things run on the batteries for the first couple minutes. My batteries were marginal, but apparently strong enough to run things until my dual alternators kicked in and starting charging them back up. I was somewhat skeptical, but after two new 850CCA batteries the truck starts faster, and runs better right from the start.

If your batteries are old like mine were it might be worth considering.

That sounds like it could be the problem. Its got two different batteries in it. They were in there when i got it. Im walking out to the truck now to look and see if i can find some dates on them and will be taking them to get tested tomorrow. Ill keep you up dated.


Ill be the first to tell you RCD has horrible injectors and even worse customer service. Ive never dealt with a place like that before and will never again. All the shops around here are dropping them. BUT, they were just buzz tested a few weeks ago and both places ive went have told me the injectors are working fine. They were installed about 6 months ago and ive been in there to pull a few out and send back since. It still could be the injectors but from what im seeing its something else. I will also check the FICM again tomorrow hot and cold.

Thanks guys

Start with load testing the batteries, that's a good point. If one is bad, replace BOTH. That's the rule of thumb and could be your issue. Usually the older battery will drain down the new good one. Test those, then recheck the FICM.

Good luck with the batteries. If that's what was causing your problem at least it's an easy and pretty inexpensive fix.

My batteries were a little over 7 years old when they caused my problem. From my understanding that's quite a long time to make it in one of these trucks.

One had 780 CCA and the other only had 670 CCA going to replace both and see how she runs. What are some good batteries to throw in. I know optimas have went down the drain in the last few years and i am looking at Diehard Platinums but they are sure pricey. Anyone running anything they have had good luck with and didn't sell their first born for?

I'm going to most likely go with the duralast golds because of price and they have pretty good warranty.

There are only 3 battery manufacturers total, so most of them are all the same thing. Just go for the largest CCA one's you can find. I got mine from Napa, got the 880CCA units, amazing how much easier the motor spins over now.

what didi you pay for them???? Did they come with a decent warranty?

I went with the Motorcraft 850CCA batteries. I believe it's a 36 month straight replacement warranty, pro-rated after that to 84 months. They were $260 for the pair and the dealer installed them for no charge.

Honestly I don't even know what they cost. At the time Wal-Mart actually had the cheapest batteries around, I just hate wal-mart with such a passion I was willing to pay whatever to get them somewhere else. Honestly wal-mart may be the best bet. I think they have a stupid long warranty and if you ever break down somewhere in the middle of the night, the chances of there being a 24 hr wal-mart around are pretty good. I know guys who bring them in a week before warranty runs out every year and just get new one's.

If memory serves, the batteries were like $80 a piece at wal-mart too. I believe the highest they had was 750cca and 850cca, depending on what you wanted. Go for the largest CCA you can get in that battery size.

Just put the new batteries in and still having a hard start. Heres a link the video.

6.0 F250 Long Crank to start - YouTube

I watched the video a few times. It doesn't sound like it is taking it that long to start to me.

Sounds like it turned about 2.5 seconds before it started?

That starts better than mine... Remember it's not a Lamborghini... I think it starts up just fine compared to mine and my buddies 2 6.0's

It sounded like it idled smooth once it fired right? Did the new batteries change the idle at all at least?

No once its sits and the oil cools down its rough idle until oil temp reaches 100-115 degrees. In the video the truck was warm thats why there was no rough idle. The dealership here wants $95 dollars to hook it up the the computer but i find that crazy.

Yeah they charge a flat rate of an hour for diagnostics. Someone near you has to be able to check it out... There is a pretty big powerstroke following in NC. Isn't Rudy's in NC too? Maybe call them up, I'm sure they could help you.

Have you tried rev-x? Just to see if it changes anything, bc your problems are when it's cold? Double check your ficm and the connections...

Yea my FICM is good and im not looking to rev-x because i want to get the problem fixed fully. I leave for Afghanistan in less than a week and just trying to make sure its going to run good for her and the baby while im gone.

From what your explaining... It sounds like injector/s sticking...

Need to get it on a good scanner and do a contribution test.

There is a video of it missing out.

Im taking it tomorrow to get it hooked up....... Dealership is my LAST option :scare2:

This could be just stiction.. My truck did the same thing for a while but when it was cold out it would lope like a nasty big block until one day the miss didn't go away and became a dead miss, I had an injector come apart but I was able to fix it, the second one by the way, there is a tiny bolt and nut that hold the mag cups to the injector and the nut fell off so instead of the injector being activated the mag cups were allowed to move away from the injector body. A Ford tech at a good dealer told me he has seen alot of them like this and some times they don't find the nut, but they always replace the injector instead of repairing them, I clean the bolt and nut off with brakeclean and put locktite on the threads before reassembly. I haven't seen anyone else on here that has had this happen but I can't be the only one, Iv'e had 2 on the drivers side do this and I susspect I have one on the pass side right now doing the same thing so we are going to pull all of them out tommorow to see what is going on. My truck is an early 04 so I don't know if it is isolated to those trucks or not but it is something to look at, $40 for all the oring kits for both sides and so far it has fixed the problem, alot better than $230 for an injector. I will have to start a thread on this with some pics so people will know what I am talking about.

Cold running issues like that are ususally batteries, a FICM, or just a bad injector. Why are you so certain your FICM isn't bad? I have at least 2, if not 3 FICM's sitting on my shelf here that all read 48V across the board, but make the truck run like absolute GARBAGE when cold. One of them is so bad I can't start the truck without plugging it in, and when it finally fires, it will seriously cut cylinders out while it's running. It goes from 8, to 4 cylinders for a few seconds, then back. I wont even sell this FICM to anyone, including as a core. I would feel bad. Swapped another repaired 48V unit on, problem went right away.

I have the Ford diagnostic sheet for hard start/no start if you want me to email it to you, you can walk right through the whole thing if you want.

Based on my very limited experience, Mdub is right on the money. I had the same issue and it turned out to be batteries. Since replacing the batteries I installed an Edge Insight to watch my numbers. Ed at ficmrepair.com told me that low voltage from the batteries are one of the top killers of ficm's. I would think that low battery voltage may have harmed your ficm.

The FICM is easy enough to test to rule out, he is just very certain it isn't that. I just haven't read anywhere what the voltage readings were if it was tested, that's the only reason I asked. If he says it's not that, then I'm just assuming he tested it...!?

Yea i tested it and posted voltage cold and hot.

Went and got it diagnosed today and low and behold its another one of RCD awesome POS injectors. Ive got a misfire on cyl. 2. He checked all sensors also but the only thing he is finding is the injector on cyl. 2.

Im going to make a vid explaining why not to purchase anything from them. I have had the worst experiences with them. Not only product but customer service.

Spread the word RCD is a S%@!& hole company.

I knew it might of been an injector from the beginning but was talking myself out of it since they were just buzz tested not too long ago!!!!!!!!!!!!



Thanks for all the help guys.

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And i guess i never posted voltage or the FICM :tttt:

It was 47 with the key on and 48.2 cranking

I also did the same thing and it fixed it for awile and then My FICM went out. I learned a trick that you can do , you can disconnect the FICM an pull off the valve covers the injector that has a high pressure oil leak at the top you will see it leaking.

Im ordering some REV-X to see how it works.

Does anyone know of a good scanner i can buy that would tell me stuff like this?

What was FICM voltage while it was running? I've seen some hold 48 key on, 48 cranking and drop to 25 running too. Just food for thought.

As for the injector... I know this sucks, but stay calm. Talk to RCD about this, they seem to be trying to up their customer service game. They are on powerstrokearmy a LOT. At least give them a chance to make it right, before drastic measures. FWIW, I don't know if you know or not, but there was already one RCD customer who made a vid about their injectors and plastered them across the net. I'm not sure what happened, but he is not "allowed" to talk publically about it anymore and the vids are gone. Just be careful whatever way you go.

Also, fwiw, RCD builds injectors from new cores now, though they do still offer the old way of building injectors from old units. Most injector builders got out of this for these very reasons you're seeing with your truck, just too many issues with building big sticks out of old used injectors. But buying new and building from there is $$$$. At least they offer it either way now.

Rev-X works awesome. There is also some other stuff out there now that a few guys are trying by Evergreen... cheaper as well. Supposed to be real good stuff, just not a big name yet. Try googling it. :c:

As for scanners, the best bang for the buck is AutoEnginuity with the enhanced Ford bundle. You will of course need a labtop for this though. It's around $350 for the whole package and works awesome with the 6.0's. You can test lots of things.

Also an injector can pass a buzz test easily and still be bad. That is basically just checking the electrical portion of the injector. If mechanically something is wrong you'd need a cylinder contribution test. The thing with 6.0's is, they seem to be a PITA to find sticky injectors, mostly because they disappear as the truck warms up.

Yea my truck runs just like yours and I cant get the sticky injectors to show up on my AE when it's cold... But I also have other issues going on...

Rev-x does work! Well it worked for like 500 miles on mine... But I'm starting to think its the valvoline oil, I don't think my truck likes it...

The synthetic premium blue in 5w-40 is supposed to be awesome for these trucks. I'm so dissatisfied with the 15w-40 non synthetic I put it mine that I'm changing it this weekend. I can't deal with it anymore.

Well I'm 90% sure that what they put in mine... So maybe thats where my 2 stroke and rough running when cold is coming from?

What symptoms is your truck doing with the valvoline?

I want to run a synthetic but not sure if I trust the valvoline? And it sucks i just wasted $20 on a motorcraft oil filter to see if that was the problem... But then again my old lady has an 08 edge and I just changed her oil at 5,000 miles with the synthetic 5w20, and that was the cleanest I have ever seen oil!!!

I've had some minor sticky injectors for a while. My truck fires up great, no smoke, idles smooth, BUT, if I try taking off right away I will get a couple little skips from the sticky injectors. I was running 15w-40 rotella. Bought the Valvoline, put it in and noticeably ran crappier when first fired. It would idle ok, but the injectors had MORE stiction than before with my old worn out oil. Bought two bottles of rev-x, helped a TON, but still there...

I'm going to try some Rotella 5w-40 synthetic this next time. I wouldn't hesitate to get the valvoline either in synthetic, it's quite popular with the 6.0 crowd actually. I will see how my stiction is at that point, and then I will probably try some of that evergreen oil additive, supposed to be a little different than rev-x (some say better...) and cheaper. Just got to try it out you know?

You got the same symptoms, but when it's cold out I get some smoke on first start up and a little rough idle for a few seconds...But I can't get it to show up on AE!!! Definetly changing the oil soon tho... Maybe I'll try that evergreen? The 2 stroke is getting worse but I'll figure it out probilly a weak injector...

By the way sorry for stealing your tread...

Ive been seeing a lot of guys post about using Blue synthetic...... Who makes it?? Do you still run the Motorcraft filter with it?? I already ordered the REV-X but ill try the evergreen with the blue. My wife will be left to keep the truck up while im gone. Im going to leave her a BOOK to go by because im very picky haha

The FICM was over 48V while running also

Powerstrokin, you are the one I was thinking of when you said the 2 stroking thing.. I had the same issue, it was nasty, truck would rock side to side when it was doing that, it would miss pretty bad until up to temp but mine turned into a dead miss no matter the engine temp, I knew mine was on driver's side so I bought 4 oring kits for injectors, they were 4.67 a piece at my dealer. Pulled all 4 injectors out on driver's side and I found that #6 injector came apart, this is the second time I have had this happen, it happened to #2 the first time. There is a tiny bolt and nut that holds the mag cups/that is what I call them/ to the injector, right under the wires that go to top of injector, it uses a T10 torx and a 4mm socket. The nut just came off causing the dead miss, I think the 2 stroke thing is when the nut was just loose and the injector kinda worked but not great. I cleaned up the bolt and that area with brakeclean the I aplied red locktite to the threads and put it back together and it has ran great after putting it back together, no more truck loping or rocking back and forth on start up. I also installed the blue fuel spring at same time which couldn't hurt but the injector was the cause of the problem. My truck was made in 8-03 so they might have had a bad batch of injectors around then. I would get 8 oring kits and check it out, Sounds like I was lucky and found the nut both times sitting on the head, A Ford tech told me he has seen quite a few like that but sometimes they don't find the nut. Kinda takes some time to do the job but for $40/that includes orings for both sides/ one of the least exspensive repairs that can be done on your 6.0.

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The Evergreen is OK but I don't think it acts as fast as Revex, I had another issue going on so I can't tell you for sure how good it was as soon as I put it in but now the truck starts better than it has in a long while.

I'm going to try to find my thread about the 2 stroke