04, 6.0 White smoke at startup
 

Well this beast has been through it all. The latest is during startup, seeing a lot of white smoke initially, but have running a while it dissipates. Also, every now and then when I attempt to start it, it won't crank. It's almost like it is a hydrostatic lock. Usually after a couple of turning the key off and back on it will start. Just for clarity, it is indeed actuating the starter, but it is like something in the engine preventing the motor from turning. Yesterday it did it again after shutting down from a 10 to 15 min. drive. About an hour later I tried to start it and no go. I tried recycling the key off and to start but would not start. Popped the hood and twisted the coolant cap off the reservoir. Man was there a lot of pressure in their. Tried to start it and started right up. I'm convinced there is a correlation between the starting problem, the white smoke at startup and the enormous back pressure in the Res. What is it?

Its could be a few things. First off white smoke can be fuel or coolant.
Fuel related problems. Fuel injector could be stuck wide open.
Fuel injector could be loose or have bad seals letting fuel pass from the rail into the cylinder.
Coolant. Could be from a craked EGR cooler leaking down the passengers side up-pipe and into which ever cylinder is setting with exhaust valve open. Or it could be cylinder head gaskets.

When you walk by it does it smell like a old diesel or karosene heater that burns your eyes? If so its a fuel issue.

Thanks for the response. Head Gaskets R&R'd three times with ARP's installed the last time. It has always spit coolant out the res. even with studs. Running "street tune" from Innovative and I rarely dog it. Run the Lucas Diesel additive in every tank in hopes of keeping it clean. Installed the coolant filtration system and change filters about every six months. Opened up the front of the stock air filter box for greater air passage and bowed to the God of the West. I have a modded EGR cooler sys. in my Shop, but haven't installed yet. I'm thinking my engine is telling me it's time to change or should I bow in another direction?:humm:

Probably either headgaskets or egr cooler. Was the oil cooler ever rebuilt or replaced when the gaskets were done? Were the heads decked before the studs were put in?

Oil Cooler replacement yes, but years back. Heads decked, no as it was done under warranty and of course they said heads looked good. Therefore heads were not decked.

Probably headgaskets again... I went through this same crapola.

I've been looking at going with the complete egr delete and oil cooler replacement package through Sinister with hopes that the ARP studs which are currently installed are doing the job. I haven't seen any moisture/fluid loss out the exhaust so I'm hoping that everything from the heads down are still intact. I have no intentions of pulling the cab only the hood and suspend myself over the engine through meditation... Ya think it'll work? Not. I'll figure something out on how to pull all the garbage off and get to the oil cooler as that'll probably be the hardest. Turbo, intact and all the other bolt-ons along the way. God, I need a beer already.

I have an 04 in the shop right know that was smoking bright white and knocking. Once shut off it hydro locked. #7 fuel injector came loose and fuel was rolling right past it.
Found out it had heads done at another shop 4 months ago. When the injector was reinstalled it wasn't torqued right and backed loose.
Just because its white doesn't mean coolant.

Correct, with what jagsdiesel said. Figure if it's coolant or fuel first, that will lead to two different outcomes here.

I didn't realize you had the EGR cooler still intact as well. Pull the EGR valve and look in the intake manifold, see if it looks wet in there... let us know.

White smoke on first start up during winter is normal?

Generally I would agree with that comment MUDSTROKIN, but now the puppy won't kick over. First time I've try starting today and it is acting like I stuck a broom stick between the spokes on a wheel. It is not the batteries. They are a year old and charged. I love to ride my harley, but not as my general mode of transport. Man this is beginning to look ugly as it certainly acts like something is in the cylinders. Maybe it is an injector pumping/draining too much fuel and causing hydrostatic lock.

Soo is it cranking and not starting or completely not cranking but the starter is engaging?

Completely not cranking but the starter is engaging. If I ever get it to spin over it will run. It is literally as though the engine is locked. It has done this lately on a handful of occasions, but I would simply turn the key off and repeat start a couple of times and it would finally spin the motor over and start. It could be in the starter, but for some reason I doubt it. It's more like something has got the motor in a bind...

i believe he said when this happens it won't crank. it sounds like a leaking injector maybe the last time your heads were done from what jagsdiesel says. doesn't hurt to retorque

Since I'm retired now, I've got plenty of time to work on it. Trying figure out if I wanna go ahead and start ripping things off the top and inside. If I do then I'm gutting out the EGR sys. and replace the oil cooler too. That means intake has to come off and it would be a good time to inspect the injectors. Hell the think I'll drink a beer and engage deep thought on this one. I ain't afraid to do it, but I hate doing a balancing act over the fender and radiator to get at the stuff. Don't really have a way to pull the cab off in my shop and I prefer to go solo working on my stuff. Dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. The good news is I have beer and I'm not afraid to use it either.:s:

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Wow, I got it started. Kept playing with it and it finally gave in to me and started. I've still got to determine what the prob is and fix. Thanks for the input guys, I appreciate.

Are you loosing coolant?

Yes even after the last headgasket job... They did headgasket only, approximately 1&1/2 years ago. Funny thing is, it will start fine now and it is only when it sits for a while does it have this problem. Sounds more and more like something leaking into the cylinder when it is not running. Hummm.

i definitely agree with it leaking into the cylinder. i would check injectors first but its your call

Who did the last headgasket job? if it was ford i believe they have a 12,000 mile warranty on their work. I'd say your gaskets are blown because the head weren't flat when they were put on and now you have coolant leaking into cylinders. Take it back to Ford and tell them to fix their mess up

Thanks MUDSTROKIN' but I do have over 12k since the last fubar. The last two times the gaskets were changed I reiterated; please check the heads for warpage. Response from Ford was, "oh, yes we already have and they are good." I'm screwed.

Ford's spec for flatness sucks, as well as their method of testing for flatness.

If you have a decent knowledge of your engine and are a good wrench, i would Do the head gaskets yourself. Remove the heads and take them to a machine shop to be decked i'd check your block for flatness. Replace the gaskets. Put the decked heads on. Your ARPs back in and do your oil cooler while in there. Button her up and know that everyting's done right now :tu:

Thanks MUDSTROKIN and Mdub707 for the input. I'll do the work myself, but I've never gone in to a Diesel engine before. Logic tells me the toughest part is really up top and all the junk that needs to be removed. Aside from pulling the cab off, is there any other way to get better access for working and taking things apart? With regards to the heads; if they are warped, what is the max. allowable tolerance for metal removal to true them? As for the block, a straight edge/scale and a feeler gauge I assume would be the logical approach.

The farthest down i've been is to the HPOP, Just take your time and pay attention and you should be fine. make sure you have everything your gonna need before you start. i would also recommend replacing your old coolant with an elc coolant while your at it. it will protect your new oil cooler from clogging up. .004 is as far as you can go on the heads i believe i'm not positive though.

Thanks again. The next day or so, I'll begin my trek into the unknown. I'll probably order the Sinister kit which is egr delete and oil cooler replacement with gaskets. I'm going to inspect the oil cooler and egr cooler for any signs of blockage, damage, cracking, etc... If visual signs indicate failure then I may go with those fixes first. If the problem still exists after those initial fixes then I'll tear everything apart and go for the heads and gaskets.

Good luck to ya

Heads max equates to about .008" allowable to take off. The spec actually calls for a minimum thickness of the head, but it works out to .008". If they have to take more, they're paper weights. Follow ARP's instructions VERY WELL for stud install and use their new lube, the ultra torque. It will make the job easier and last longer. DO NOT overtighten them to something ridiculous like I've seen suggested elsewhere, you will physically damage the stud.

Get an oil cooler rebuild kit, there is no point in NOT doing it if you are already that far in.

If you're doing it with the cab on, you will have to either cut the TTY bolt that holds the head down, or dent in the firewall. This will be the bolt on the drivers side closest to the fender and the firewall. I would do the dent approach myself so you're not getting cut metal shavings flying everywhere when the top of your engine is off.

It's not that difficult honestly, just very time consuming. Once you get most of the crap out of the way, it's a basic V8.

Also another thing to be careful of... when you do take the heads out (Helps to have a friend aid you with this, as they're something like 100lbs a piece), make sure you don't set them down on the bench valves down, you will wreck the ends of the glow plugs. Put them on their sides. :c:

Oh and take pics and report on progress!!!!

Mdub707 thanks for the input. I already have ARP's installed so the TTY Bolt your referring to is it independent of the ARP studs?

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Got another first for ya'll. Fired up fine this morning and I let it idle for 15-20 mins. When I got in to shut it off I noticed Check Gauge light and temp. gauge at about 3/4 from top and the fan kicked on. Immediately the gauge began coming back down. I drove it a few miles up the road and I noticed it cycling up to about 3/4 hot then 10 secs. later come back down. What did I do, piss off the engine or is this symptomatic of oil cooler/egr failure. Never done this before.

You're low on coolant. Mine did this all the time when I was pushing tons of coolant out. It got so bad I lost heat in the cab. Add some coolant and see if it goes away. BTW the factory gauge is useless, it doesn't actually go up and down with temp, it just has like 5 stages it can hit, so if it went up to 3/4 mark, it was between a large range of temps. It's kind of ridiculous. Even as bad as mine was, I still never had it go up that high. The fan is noisy and you can tell when that's on, usually if it's kicking on you're just low on coolant. With my coolant topped off, I couldn't get my fan to kick on towing a 5klb camper uphill in the dead of summer flat footing it with my aggressive tow tune. EGT's started climbing pretty good when I flat footed it, but I hit 70+mph goign up hill and let off because of speed reasons. Fan never kicked on the whole trip.

ARP's are a stud, stock we have bolts, more commonly referred to as TTY bolts or Torque-to-yield, meaning as they're tightened down on the head, they are actually stretched out to the point where they actually yield a little bit. The idea is that they will allow the head to flex under extreme heat, but this also means the gasket go's pop. Studs can hold more clamping force and are easier to tighten down.

The company I work for actually makes and sells hydrualic nut tensioners for studs. Basically you thread a coupling on a stud, apply hydrualic force, it stretches the stud out to a predetermined length, and you hand tighten a nut on. Release the hydraulic tension and wha-la you have the standard nut now set to a torque value, without actually applying those crazy twisting forces. I wish we made stuff small enough for our applications haha. We even make studs here. I think some of our small stuff is 2" in diameter up to something like a 6" diameter stud. :c:

Yepper it was low on coolant and I kind of knew that, but I was still surprised that the temp gauge went up like that and Check Gage light illuminated. I just ordered the "Basic 06 Powerstroke Solution". EGR delete with Oil Cooler. It'll be here on the 11th. Might have to hook up a couple hose pipes to the coolant jug if I ride around very much til I get the parts. Between now and then, I really need to decide on the headgaskets and checking the heads. This much coolant loss really bothers me. I'm beginning to think those hydrostatic locks I've been experiencing indeed maybe coolant now getting into the cylinders. However, if it were then I would see moisture coming out the exhaust, which I don't.:argh:

i would start with head gaskets and go from there

Well the parts are scheduled for delivery today, but I haven't ordered the headgaskets yet. I'm not going back with the factory gaskets and I'm strongly leaning towards the "Black Onyx" gaskets. Anybody ever used these? In the mean time I'm putting my deep surgery gown on.

The stock gaskets are a good gasket. The black onyx are essentially stock gaskets with a special coating on them. You can also get the Victor Reinz gaskets, which are basically the black onyx, but at a MUCH lower cost.

Ordered some yesterday out of Tennessee. Taking my time on tear down. Hood is off, by myself. No damage to fenders or other parts, but had to repair my finger after trying to balance hood over fender, but that's another story. I can already see this is going to be like the "Nightmare on Elm Street". :ouch:

It's not that bad just take your time and pay attention, and every once in a while you gotta put your beer down for a minute and use both hands :tttt:

Put my beer down? Isn't that a sin?:s: Yeah your right. I'm about to head into my Shop and continue tearing things off the top of the engine; Alternator, turbo and other incidental goodies... Once clear, pull the intake and start looking at injectors and valve cover removal. Oops forgot, put beer down... Man I can see it's gonna be tough pulling those heads with cab still intact. I'll figure it out. I have a cutting torch and I'm not afraid to use it.:argh:

Everything on top of the engine is a cake walk until you get to the turbo, it's alot heavier than it looks. As for the heads, if you like your back i'd suggest having someone help you lift them or using some sort of hoist. As for the room around the heads i hear you can remove the front cab bolts and loosen the back ones and jack up the front a bit and put a block of wood under it. I've never tried it just heard of people doing it.

Thanks for the insight. My son has an engine hoist and I'll figure out a way to rig it to pull the heads and install. Clearance on the right side is the obvious issue that I can see now. Heater core maybe in the way...

passenger side is a PITA. Drivers side you will have the bolt closest to the fender and the firewall will hit the firewall, most just peel back the insulation and bend the firewall in with a hammer for clearance. You will have to have the A/C taken care of. It's easiest to remove the inner fender liners too, and the wheels, you can go right into the engine bay from the outside by the fender and stand right next to the head to lift it straight up. You will want someone there to help you get it out of the truck though, or use that engine lift. I think the heads are around 100lbs by themselves. Turbo isn't terrible, but it aint light either. Also I believe someone made or sold some brackets specifically for using an engine hoist to get 6.0 heads out.... they were for the heads specifically I remember.:c:

Take pics...

NEWS FLASH: There is more friggin metric nuts and bolts on this truck then Standard. Are you certain Ford U.S. built this or was it built in Korea? Hood, Alternator power wire and a couple of other asses. 10 mm.

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Turbo is out and more metric bolts (10mm).... I'm out for a beer. Next, prepping for intake removal.