|
Planning a Fummins
Hey Guys,,, I'm new here, and new to the diesels, but from what I see out of them, it's time for my Ford to get a new (old) powerplant. I've complete several frame up restorations, but never had the opportunity to try a Cummins swap until now.
Last week I purchases a 1990 5.9 with 140K miles and is super clean and complete, right down to the wiring harness that is still on the engine. "According to the seller", it has 50 hp injectors added, the pump has been turned up and the timing advanced. He claims 19.2 mpg in a 2 wheel drive, 5 speed truck. I'd be excited to get 15mpg, after seeing 7mpg every day. I have a 1984 Ford CC dually 4X4 with a great running 460 and a 4 speed. At 7MPG, it's time for the gas engine to find a new home. With 4:10 gears, I'm turning 3100 rpm to run 70 MPH, so an overdrive tranny is a MUST. I'm not sure what transmission to go with yet. I am considering a ZF5 with an adapter plate, or avoid the adapter, and go with a Getrag or NV4500. Looks like the same money either way I go. I also have a Dana divorced transfer case out of a late 70's Ford that would allow me to go with a 2wd tranny. As a contractor, I use my truck, but I don't abuse it. I'm not sure which alternator to use. I may be able to use my Ford alternator, and change from a V belt pulley to a serpentine pulley. Is there an advantage to using the Dodge alternator? It looks like the 460 radiator would work OK, but I would have to use a crossover on the lower hose. I've seen this done, but I'm not a real fan of it. Dodge might be the better choice, with the flow running vertical. I'm hoping to hear from someone that has done the swap on the mid 80s Ford with the TTB , and maybe have a few pics of mounts, clearances, etc. Hopefully, they can steer me away from any major pitfalls of the swap. I plan on building my own mounts, and am a pretty decent welder/fabricator. I have all the tools, the garage, and the "want to" to make it all happen. Like I said, I'm trying to plan it all out component by component. I'd appreciate any and all advice, and even more, the technical info. I will keep you posted as I progress. THANKS!! |
Originally Posted by markp
(Post 493989)
Hey Guys,,, I'm new here, and new to the diesels, but from what I see out of them, it's time for my Ford to get a new (old) powerplant. I've complete several frame up restorations, but never had the opportunity to try a Cummins swap until now.
WELCOME :hi: Last week I purchases a 1990 5.9 with 140K miles and is super clean and complete, right down to the wiring harness that is still on the engine. "According to the seller", it has 50 hp injectors added, the pump has been turned up and the timing advanced. He claims 19.2 mpg in a 2 wheel drive, 5 speed truck. I'd be excited to get 15mpg, after seeing 7mpg every day. 15mpg should be obtanable in your set up with a manual tranny I have a 1984 Ford CC dually 4X4 with a great running 460 and a 4 speed. At 7MPG, it's time for the gas engine to find a new home. With 4:10 gears, I'm turning 3100 rpm to run 70 MPH, so an overdrive tranny is a MUST. Yeah, seing as how w/o a 3200 spring that engine wont turn 3100rpm under load I would Definatly look for an OD tranny. I'm not sure what transmission to go with yet. I am considering a ZF5 with an adapter plate, or avoid the adapter, and go with a Getrag or NV4500. Looks like the same money either way I go. I also have a Dana divorced transfer case out of a late 70's Ford that would allow me to go with a 2wd tranny. As a contractor, I use my truck, but I don't abuse it. Any of them would be a good setup! I would go with ateh getrag or teh 4500 though just for clutch options, dont know what aftermarket option the are for a ZF5 to cummins, I'm sure there are some. I'm not sure which alternator to use. I may be able to use my Ford alternator, and change from a V belt pulley to a serpentine pulley. Is there an advantage to using the Dodge alternator? I would go with the Dodge, its on the engine, No need to make a bracket or swap a pulley. It looks like the 460 radiator would work OK, but I would have to use a crossover on the lower hose. I've seen this done, but I'm not a real fan of it. Dodge might be the better choice, with the flow running vertical. I would see how they both fit then decide. If still up in the air, use the larger one... :D I'm hoping to hear from someone that has done the swap on the mid 80s Ford with the TTB , and maybe have a few pics of mounts, clearances, etc. Hopefully, they can steer me away from any major pitfalls of the swap. I plan on building my own mounts, and am a pretty decent welder/fabricator. I have all the tools, the garage, and the "want to" to make it all happen. Cant help that... Like I said, I'm trying to plan it all out component by component. I'd appreciate any and all advice, and even more, the technical info. I will keep you posted as I progress. THANKS!! Once you get the engine mounted there is not put 3 or 4 wires to make it run! Have you looked to see if destroked.com makes motor mounts for it? |
contact autoworld in Montana or Page 9 they have. and sweet choice I love that ford body style. I have an 82 300/6 that im building right now.
|
Hey I'm doing the same thing with a 94 F350. :jump::jump:
You might want to swap out that TTB setup for a solid axle D60 cause the Looooong WB puts more stress on those weak TTB components. Oh, and take lots of pictures Good luck Larry :pca1: |
Great to hear from ya,,,,, maybe we can swap notes. My garage is heated, and I'm really itching to get this thing started, but even in 4 wheel drive, I can't get this truck to my house. I live rural, and am running a F150 with chains on all 4s. I love the seclusion, but it can be a pain sometimes. We have had nothing but snow this year in WV.
I had thougth about doing a solid axle swap, but figured I would get the engine in and all the bugs worked out before I go further. In a solid axle swap, does the TTB crossmember need changed out? I could buy mounts and such to make it a bolt in conversion, but I love the challenge of building anything I can myself. I plan on using stock cummins mounts bolted to the engine, and fab mounts for the frame myself. I've looked at the 1st gen. mounts, but kinda lean towards the mounts on a '96 engine. Looks like better mounts to beat the vibration. Still trying to decide. Opinions anyone?? I'm shopping right now for a transmission,, looking at the options. I can't wait to get this thing started. As for the long wheelbase,,,,,,,,,, I can't turn this thing in a 10 acre field,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,LOL |
I was checking out the Destroked.com and Fordcummins.com web sites for information, and decided to buy the installation manual from Fordcummins. I figured I could use any and all the information I could get before I got this started. I don't mean to step on toes or put down a site, but I was really disapointed. I can get the same information and more, by reading the posts here than in the "manual" I received. Not much to it. Very little detail. It basically says "what can be done", and gives little info about "how" something is to be done.
Maybe I expected too much,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, |
Well,, I'm about ready to get this conversion started. I go out to the garage and look at the Cummins ever day, and have researched until I can't research any more. Looks like a pretty simple swap.
I advertised my 460 gas engine this week, and hopefully, with less than 30K miles on it, it will sell soon. Either way,,,, it is coming out in a week or so. I can't wait!! I'm leaning towards a ZF5 and an adapter plate at the moment. I'm not sure with 4.11 gears that the OD tranny will be enough to get the RPMs down where I need them though. A ring and pinion change may be necessary also. Running at 70 MPH with OD, I can get the rpms down to about 2400, and changing to 3.50 gears should get it to 2050. I will get it on the road first, then decide where to go from there. I will try to document everything, and I'm sure there will be more questions. :humm: I appreciate everyones help. |
Mark
I used the ZF in one cummins Ford conversion cause I got a good deal on and adapter. I like the ZF, but it kinda rattled from the harmonics of the 6bt. I didn't notice it going down the road, but at an idle next to another vehicle you could hear the rattle. I'm keeping the 4.10 gears to see what happens as well. I'm running 345 70 19.5 for tires, so i'll see how the 34 inch tires work out! Larry |
Originally Posted by ID Shopteacher
(Post 500429)
I like the ZF, but it kinda rattled from the harmonics of the 6bt. I didn't notice it going down the road, but at an idle next to another vehicle you could hear the rattle.
I'm keeping the 4.10 gears to see what happens as well. I'm running 345 70 19.5 for tires, so i'll see how the 34 inch tires work out! Larry |
Taller tires really isn't an option for me. I am a contractor, and use my truck in my business. I can't imagine unloading 50 sheets of 12' drywall on a truck much taller than this one. Plus,, with duals, it is even harder to go tall. Overdrive and gear ratio are my only options.
I'm looking to be able to use my truck for towing, hauling, and everyday driving, but I really need the MPG. I'm hoping to get the RPMs to approx. 2100 out on the highway. I've built lots of gas engines, mostly small block chevys, but I'm really not knowlegable enough to know what the cummins is capable of on the highway. What is a good RPM to be turning at 70 MPH?? |
Originally Posted by markp
(Post 500969)
Taller tires really isn't an option for me. I am a contractor, and use my truck in my business. I can't imagine unloading 50 sheets of 12' drywall on a truck much taller than this one. Plus,, with duals, it is even harder to go tall. Overdrive and gear ratio are my only options.
I'm looking to be able to use my truck for towing, hauling, and everyday driving, but I really need the MPG. I'm hoping to get the RPMs to approx. 2100 out on the highway. I've built lots of gas engines, mostly small block chevys, but I'm really not knowlegable enough to know what the cummins is capable of on the highway. What is a good RPM to be turning at 70 MPH?? keep your lower gear ratio so you got power down low still. and use your gear vendor for the freeway. take your 1 to .65 (roughly) that your 5th gear puts out, and put another 1 to .6 behind that. that'll put you at like a 1 to .4 final gear ratio on the freeway. those gear vendor units are killer |
I will have to agree with ya. The Gear Vendor units can't be beat. I borrowed a Dodge 3500 with a Cummins, a NV4500, and a gear vendor OD unit that belongs to a cousin. I was towing 9000# and averaged 20.4 MPG. I couldn't hardly believe it, and rarely had to come out of 5+. I will be checking out the Gear Vendors.
I never planned on putting much $$ into a 1984 truck, but it is a rust free from Arizona, and I consider it a keeper. I have lots planned for it now. Still much cheaper than a new ride. I hauled 3 ton of stone in it today, and it felt like there was nothing in the bed. That was with the gas 460. I can't wait to feel the same load with a Cummins under it. :tu: |
Today's the day!! Sold the 460, and it's coming out today. Still trying to find a tranny. I can't wait to get this thing going!! :jump:
|
Well,,, I just set the Cummins down in the Ford tonight. TIGHT!!! I have the back valve cover just under the rib on the firewall, by maybe a half inch. That lets the fan clear the radiator. I have it sitting about 1 1/2" above the TTB crossmember. The turbo clears the AC box by about an inch, and the exhaust is gonna be just as close if not closer, where it comes out of the turbo. Will this be a problem being that close??
NOW THE BIGGER PROBLEM: This engine has a vacuum pump with two round "bells" mounted between the timing cover and the power steering pump, and the lower "bell" part of the pump hits the steering box. Not sure what to do here. What if I "modify" the firewall so I can raise the engine a bit. I hear that the rib where the firewall dips back in needs to get the hammer treatment. I'm not a fan of beating the firewall to make something fit, but if it needs clearance here, I will notch it out and mig in a boxed recess in the firewall. I know this is a common swap, so I hope to hear from someone that has been through this before. Suggestions anyone?? :argh: |
For your transmission:
Going with a new rear end may be the answer. However if you change your gears in the 4th and 5th gear you may be pleasantly surprised. I changed my 5th gear in my 5speed dodge with 3.73 non positrac rear end. The factory gear ration was 1:0.85. The new gear Ratio is 1:0.73. result 70mph at 2000rpm. close to 21mpg on the Highway. Not bad from a 8100lbs truck. |
Dont know if anyone told you yet but i did my fummins into a 91 f250 that had the ttb.... it sagged low but from what i could tell it drove fine. HOWEVER i dont have any real miles on it because i opted to do the D60 swap shortly after. My profile picture is of my truck with the ttb i used motor mounts from fordcummins.com and the engine fit (with a shoe horn) alright. As far as ttb to dana 60 the clearance for the motor really isnt different. The real difference is the weight the different axles can carry and the way that they can carry it as far as body roll and overall driveability.
|
I've been told that using a newer vane-type vacuum pump off an intercooled engine gets you some clearance for the steering box.
|
I like the divorced transfer case idea. I suspect you have room for it (an extra 30-36" or so) ahead of the fuel tank because you have the crewcab. Most Fords can handle 33" tires stock, so using something like 255/85R16s, with a governor spring, 4.10 gears should be workable. An extra leaf on the TTB springs usually puts the camber back to normal. The D50TTB should be strong enough for the cummins weight since it uses the same hubs as the D60.
Originally Posted by Frontline1
(Post 1051423)
I've been told that using a newer vane-type vacuum pump off an intercooled engine gets you some clearance for the steering box.
|
I would stick with the ttb front end, unless you are going with much larger tires they are plenty strong enough. I would change your gear ratios however, I am doing the same swap on an 81 f-350 I have solid axles and 38" tires and am going to leave my 3.73's in the truck and see what happens, you will have stock tires and I think you will be screaming with 4.10's on the highway event with the gear vendors overdrive. You probably should go with 3.50's if you want to see good mileage and you will still have plenty of power. I would not do a divorced transfer case, get a nv4500 and either use the stock dodge transfer case or get a np205 and the adapter. Divorced is going to give you more things to break!
|
I just finished my 86 f250 fummins project and it sits about the same as it did with the 6.9 in it. I built my own motor mounts for free besides the cost of the rubber mounts and they are working good so far. I'm new here and have no idea how to do it or I would post some pics of them for you. I kept the old t 19 because of budget restraints but a zf is in the future because with 33's and 3.73s it's screaming at 60 mph. Anyways I just putt around and take my time wherever I'm Goin. It's definitely a beast compared to what it was even if it is slow. Lol
|
| All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:11 AM. |
© 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands