REAL Jake on a 5.9
 

Ok, this may be far fetched but it's something I really want. I need the opinion or advice from the mechanics or more experienced guys. I want a true compression brake for a 5.9
24V. If it can be done, I'd be willing to pay somebody to CNC one based off an N14. I've gone as far as to email the guys at Jake Brake but they say they have no plans to make one. If it can't be done, what engine manufacturers out there besides Detroit ( i don't want a 2 stroke) make an engine with a Jake that's small enough to fit in a 2nd Gen Dodge?

gonna be ALOT of work and ALOT of money to get it......

why???

If this was easy enough, don't you think
that thousands of us would already have them?

Pretty much an entirely different engine for starters.

The idea is being kicked around by pacbrake...... But I'm doubtful it'll happen but it defiantly would be sweeeet! :choochoo:Build it, we will buy....DO IT - TDR Roundtable Want an ENGINE brake for your B-series?! Vote here! - TDR Roundtable

Thanks for the info Rattler, some of the rest of you, I'm lookin for advice, not Smarta$* comments

Be a killer setup. But the cost, couldn't fathom it!

Might as well set your truck up to run an 8.3...they have jakes don't they? That's gonna take one big cowl hood too.

cwal, how about whole new frame and extended front end..

according to Jake Brake's website, i think the L10 is the smallest cummins offered with a Jake, HOWEVER.............. the 7.2 Cat they put in F-650 Ford trucks you can get one for.

NOPE......they are just a fat 5.9......

That's what I was thinking....wasn't sure.

Well I e-mailed PacBrake's tech department about the comment Rattler made. I'll let yall know what they tell me. I don't think these companies realize how many they would sale if they actually would make one.

Yeah, but the R&D would far outweigh the sales profits. First comes designs, prototypes, testing, redesigns, retesting (this can go on for months, often years before a final production version is reached). Then comes the big expense, TOOLING. Figure a few million dollars, then production costs for overhead, material cost, labor cost, and warranty work.

All for a product that does nothing better than a standard exhaust brake, it just sounds cool. Even if Pacbrake ends up producing one, do you know what the cost will be just for the part? I bet at least $3,500, and probably closer to the $5k mark. Remember, they don't just bolt on, there are a lot of other necessary parts, gaskets, and adapters to install a Jake.

Yea, you'll need a whole new head at the least.

Don't tell him all that. He'll just think you're being a smartass.

the problem is the engine isnt strong enough, when a jake engages it holds the exhaust valve open, and that would rattle apart the smaller 5.9.

I think this might be one thing our beloved 5.9 might not be able to handle.:booo:

but i do think it would be a sweet thing to have.:choochoo:

The block and head could handle it, but you'd surely need studs, and a ton of machining to the head, if not a whole new casting...

Why don't you just ask somebody to invent something that sticks in your exhaust pipe and makes the jake noise when you flip a switch. They have those whistlers you stick in your muffler to make it sound like you have a turbo... It'd be way cheaper than trying to fit a real jake. lol

i know this is an old thread, but i was wondering if anyone would be interested in a set of jakes for the 12 valve cummins, i have a set of jakes off of a cummins 350 small cam, and i am going to try machining valve covers to hold the electronic actuators for a set of jakes.

hell yeah I'd be interested if you think it could be done. but from most guys here they think it's damn near impossible. I'm nowhere near a master mechanic so I can't say either way.

all you need to make is spacer that will go under valve covers and you will be set.like everybody said it may be a lot of money ,but definitly not imposible.i work for MACK dealership and have rebuild and installed many engine brakes.it is relativly simple design. the way mack has it they made jake housing that bolts right on top rocker shaft with longer bolts (this is one of few designs they have)

it would take a lot of precision machining if one had access to one and do it in spare time but would definitly be different:tttt:

does anyone know the tolerance between the valve and the piston at top dead center on the 12v 5.9? i need to know how far i can open these valves so that i dont end up with a grenaded engine that i just got done rebuilding. it is in a freightliner and i tow alot of weight with it, so i definately need something to slow me down other than the service brakes.

i still think your gonna shake your shit apart if you install these on a 5.9 but hey maybe ill be wrong...

let him do it, then when it rattles apart the engine again we can go :ha::lol88::gj::photo:

What is the reasoning for this comment? The Jake Brakes just sit on top of the rocker boxes and utilize oil pressure and an electric signal to operate. You might want to replace the pushrods and the valve springs like we already know. But as for the rest of the engine, I'm sure it could handle it.

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The 5.9 cummins stock block and internals can take 750-800hp but can't take an exhaust brake? You're kidding me right? Have you ever had one apart and inspected it?

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I have a friend who is a machinist and this is what he was thinking of too. We also had an idea of tapping the oil galley via the rocker pedestal to operate the system just like the regular Jakes. We were going to do some research with gauges and tap a set and see what kind of pressure drop might take place with something like this to ensure we wouldn't create starvation of oil to to the upper end. It might be expensive, but someone needs to do it.

it is not going to cause oil starvation simply because oil wont flow thru it unless engine brake is aplied and is going to be under pressure all the time.even with engine brake on you still have tight clearences that it will not affect anything.
i also agree with you on durability of engine block and whole engine for that matter.after all engine brake only holds ex valve open,makes a lot of noise but wont hurt anything for sure

:pca1::c::pals::yeah: well one of you guys needs to hurry up and figure it out LOL, I WANT ONE BAD!!!!!!! Call me crazy, but I think I'd spend a couple grand on that b4 I would spend that kinda money on compound turbos.

you ever held the actuator down on an engine brake while the engine is running on lets say a N-14, with jsut one exhaust valve open at idle the thing shakes like crazy and that n-14 block is alot stouter and bigger then the 5.9, so no i dont think it will hold up, maybe for 25,000 miles yes but most of the guys that would utilize this would be haulers that would put 10x times that maybe more on there truck and it would rattle apart IMHO...someone prove me wrong i would love to see it done...

for all the more that these trucks tow, i know some people tow alot of weight, an exhaust brake would be fine and an engine brake would be over kill...it probably wouldnt even sound that good unless you had 20 K lbs behind it anyhow, i know the big Cummins expecially the ISX's sound like crap with no weight behind them...but like i said before somebody prove me wrong and run a set for 100k miles and then i will say im wrong:pca1:

i just need to know if anyone has any idea how far i can hold the exhaust valves open to have safe clearence between the valves and pistons. maybe .030 in. ? i drive a 97 peterbilt with the c12 CAT everyday at 105,500 lbs and no that motor doesnt shake like crazy as long as the jake deactivates by 900 rpm. only shakes at low rpms.

OMG, at idle I wonder why it shakes like crazy? Gee, almost like it is missing huh?

There are engine brakes available for the ISC. They require the use of a housing that adds a few inches onto the top of an engine. They use special exhaust crossheads with pins that allow the engine brake slave piston to actuate only one of the exhaust valves, and the engine brake master piston is actuated by an exhaust rocker that has a longer-than-stock adjusting lock nut on it. A solenoid allows the oil into the brake assembly in order to provide the hydraulic link between the pistons. There are two independent assemblies that bolt onto the top of the engine, allowing you to brake with either three or six cylinders.

The mechanical part of installing one is slightly more difficult than a valve adjustment. The electrical part is more time consuming.

The same theory could be applied to an ISB. You wouldn't need studs or billet rods or whatnot; no other engine does...

not only the pure useless nature on a pickup and the durability issues and money constraints do we really need a bunch of hockey puck kids with diesels with engine brakes...

and yes i still dont think they will hold up :moon: :fu2:

An exhaust brake relieves compression near the top of the compression stroke. Then it cuts off fuel on the subsequent power stroke.

With an engine brake, the engine is not compressing any more air than it would otherwise. It is not putting any more of a load on the engine than would be on it otherwise.

How do you conjecture that by turning the engine from a fire breathing air compressor into a regular old air compressor you would be increasing the load on it?

Hey man, just let some of us have our fun. You're gettin WAY to heated about all this. It's actually kinda funny.:tttt:

Yeah it's funny because some people have ideas and would like to pursue them. Don't hate it beacuse you don't know. :5:

i dont know, i know this, i want everybody to know this...i just dont THINK it will work where as you THINK it will work, no harm in that.

i still need to know the clearence between the exhaust valve and the piston top. is my only option to find this to bring my pistons to top dead and check the clearence by compressing the exhaust valve on each cylinder, then using a dial indicator find clearence, then account for thermal expansion on the piston, and the valve head. i can run equations to find quite close to the expansion on the rod and piston assembly under worst case scenerio 1400 deg. F.

your best bet to find the clearence, is to find out how much the valve opens when its in normal operation...then i would do a little less then that, or there should be somewhere or someone who know the clearence...you using the dial indicator or some other like instrument would be the best way that way you know what it is and are not going by here say:pca1:

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