Kubota v2203 into a jeep cherokee 2wd
 

Good afternoon all, my conversion has been underway since mid September. I am making progress. I wanted to get the accessories all sorted out on the Kubota before I started the bellhousing adapter. I still don't have a Aiconditioning compressor mount, but the rest of the accessories are hung on the Kubota.
So I think it is time to start pulling the jeep engine. This 1994 jeep with ax15 5 speed 2wd, is probably not going to be the final home for this Kubota. But this is where I wanted to start. If it all works out, the final destination will be either a 1998 Dodge Dakota extra-cab 2wd with an AX15, or a 1998 Cherokee that has a bad automatic transmission.
Here are some pics of the Turbo.
FTE if you are out there this should be an exact copy of your Turbo. So what do you think? I had to take the brand new Turbo apart, and pull out one little indexing dowel in the exh side, and the one in the compressor side would not pull out so I had to cut it down.

More pics of the accessories in a bit.

here a pic of the alternator and PS pump. For the Aircon, I am thinking to mount the jeep crank pulley to the Kubota, and run the OE aircon compressor and pulley. I spent a few days trying to cut my own internal spline sleeve for this added pulley. I GIVE UP ON THAT. I think I can get a internal spline sleeve, but a 1.5" splined coupler is $100. the other choice is to just make a smooth walled sleeve that is interference fit on the crankshaft, and then held on with set screws.
I don't want to put this in a truck with out Aircon. That is why I did not drive the Mercedes Cherokee more. The Aircon compressor mount is in process, I need to do some more fitting and fab work on that.

Good Going.

I guess you did not get my PM on the Pulley?

I have been thinking about a Pulley for awhile for this application. As I have made a pulley or two when I was messing with a ground up UAV project a few years ago for a power plant I set up for the air craft.



What I have in mind with my limited tooling is to use a piece of flat aluminum as thick as needed for the belt. Then I will simply use a hole saw on a drill press to make a center hole probably around 3" this is not set in stone as you can do as you wish and what best will fit your lathe head.

For the Groove you can purchase some Tool Steel for the cutter the size you need then simply grind the shape of the v belt into the tool steel to set into your tool head to make the groove. I will also probably face off one side of the pulley to index onto the stock Kubota front pulley so I will not have to remove it from the engine. Then simply drill three or four mounting holes through the new aluminum pulley set it against the factory pulley of the Kubota mark the holes and then drill them out and tap them and walla you can then attach the pulley to the Kubota. Also by doing it this way you can stack more pulleys onto the new pulley you made as you wish.

Sorry I guess I should add this. If you think you may attach more pulleys to the one you made then I would face off both sides with a indexing face so on the pulleys you may make you can match this and they will self index on the previous made pulley and simply bolt them on.

So in the end you can make a pulley as thick as you like and have 1,2 or 3 extra grooves in one pulley plate. If you are going to make it then you can make whatever you wish.

HI Jester, I did get your message about the pulley, That was my first thought for a pulley as well. I even tried to make an aluminum pulley about a week ago. it did not come out satisfactory, then I thought I would rather use the stock jeep pulley, so I don't have to change the pulley on the aircon compressor. Both of the good vehicles have working AC. The POS starter jeep does not.
My lathe is only 13" swing. I will not have enough swing to turn down the flywheel cover. Most all the rest of the machine work I should be able to do in house. I could probably get it done on the mill, but it will be better to take that to someone with a bigger lathe and have it done correct.
Now I need a stud puller to get the 2 studs out of the exhaust manifold. I am going to use some countersunk screws in place of the studs to mount my turbo adapter. I tried to get the studs out with 2 nuts backed up to each other, and it just pulled the threads out of the nuts straight away, the nuts were expensive Chinese crap I guess. So that is going to be a delay.
What are you other guys using for exhaust gaskets on the high pressure side??? I got a stock Kubota exhaust pipe gasket, but I need something for the turbo inlet flange.

I guess that is it for tonight

DieselXJ I sent you a pm On the Pulley.

As for the Studs they sell a stud remover that looks like a socket that you can use.

But I would first soak them with some PB Blaster before trying to remove them. If they do not come out all that easy I would use a torch to apply heat and then try and remove them.

Or instead of the Stud removal tool if a sears is not close by you can get a couple of GOOD nuts and put them on there and then weld them to the stud. Heat the exhaust metal around the studs and then remove the offending studs.

But as you know if all this fails well then all you can do is cut off the stud and file it semi flush with the exhaust manifold center punch them and drill them and try an easy out again with heat and even further if that does not work and you are careful then drill them out and re-tap the threads.

Also as a long shot if you have nothing to loose you can make a new plate for the Turbo to mount to and then weld it to the exhaust flange using a low-hydrogen rod.

Or you can bite the bullet and get a Turbo Exhaust Manifold here https://parts-barn.com/index.php/kub...-manifold.html

Sorry if this is a bit much in one post. :)

I was originally planning on making my own turbo header out of stainless steel just for a fun project. But maybe next time. here is a pic of my turbo adapter plate. I can notch out the turbo exh flange and use the existing Kubota studs. Or my choice at least today is too pull the Kubota studs, and countersink my turbo adapter plate for flush grade 8 metric internal wrench screws. I don't think there is enough meat on the turbo to notch the housing for bolt clearance.
Also on the turbo now that it has been clocked , I need to re-do the wastegate actuator mount. I thought I could just re-index the wastegate actuator on the compressor housing, but for some reason it is not that simple. So I will have to make a little wastegate actuator bracket to re-mount the actuator.
Another thing that is scaring me a little is I might have jumped the gun with the accessories, because I might need to share the accessory mounts with engine mounts
and from talking to Rangmar, it looks like I will need to go ahead and get a bobcat oil pan.
It is never over even when it is over its not over.

Yes that is the same turbo as mine, when I clocked it I was able to mount the wastegate on the other side of the compressor. Mine has more bolt holes. I also have mine mounted @ 45deg to the motor, your pic shows you will be 90deg to the motor, that will make the plumbing easier. Mine couldn't do that due to the master cyl.

thanks FTE, nothing is set in stone on that turbo yet. I need to get the studs out and find some countersunk screws to fit in that plate. I hope I don't get an exhaust leak at the bolt holes. All the orientations seem to have pluses and minuses. This one will shoot the comp outlet the correct direction to hit a intercooler up front, but it puts the Airfilter going the wrong direction . Where did you get your high pressure turbo gaskets?

I have a spline coupler coming to sleeve the jeep pulley. And the heep engine should be out this evening

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Well I got the engine 3/4 of the way out of the jeep and the dam forklift quit. I hope it is just out of diesel. If I have to switch to manual it is going to be a pain in the ass.

It's best to have the the least amount of bends in the charge lines, so your setup sounds good. I made my gaskets out of bulk Fel Pro material. Mind posting the link for the coupler?

DieselXJ,
If you don't mind me asking, where did you buy your turbo? I've seen a few on EBAY but was concerned about the quality.

Thanks!

here is the link for the spline couplers. The are at hubcityinc.com

http://www.hubcityinc.com/documents/...ccessories.pdf

there are 2 available. one is an adapter to SAE spline, with a big extra spline on the nose ; page 6 Part # 0332-00084
then there is a sleeve Page 14 p/n 0332-0085. This is the one I bought $100. I don't know for sure if they will fit, but I sure hope so I saw some folks on Orangetractor forum had bought some, and were using them to put hyd pumps on the front of their engines

hope this helps some folks

I have a club meeting to go to gotta get cleaned up

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hi Kubotaman. at FTE's suggestion and comments about what the application for his turbo was ; I put out a few PM's on 4btswaps to people that were working with the little 3.3L cummins industrial engines. One of those guys had a brand new spare that was I think removed for a upgrade. FTE commented that the 3.3l cummins guys needed turbo upgrades because the stock turbo was too small for automotive application as it came from a stationary low rpm engine.
Lets hope it works out as well as FTE's
I agree, I was concerned about a china ebay turbo. So I spent a fair amount of effort finding a name brand manufactured turbo

on a different note. One of my exhaust flange studs came out well the other broke off. so tomorrow is broken stud removal. The cold front finally came through down here, so afternoon and evening was a rain out.
I should be able to get the last little bit of the old jeep engine out tomorrow morning. and I can start working on my trans adapter

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Good evening, Todays progress. There was a small change in plans. I am going to bypass the POS jeep and put the Kubota straight into the nice '98 xj with the bad automatic. So it will be a engine change and a Auto to manual swap.
The AX15 is pulled from the jeep and degreased and pressure washed. I still need to pull the pedal assy, and figure out if the center console is going to work. Also I need a inner shift boot.
If there are any jeep guys out there that know anything about inner shift boots I found the correct part for $40. But there are some from other jeeps that are $10 I need to figure out if those cheap ones will work.

Now on to important stuff. I started to work the initial math on the transmission adapter, and I want to bounce the theory off you all. I took a measurement from the clutch side of the OE jeep flywheel to the Jeep block where the trans bell makes contact @ 1.555 inches. That measurement is the key correct? Next measure the same on the Kubota and I get 2.874. So that means that I have 1.319 to play with to make the adapter, and shave the flywheel.
So I plan on cutting the Kubota flywheel housing down to .5", and the trans adapter ring will be .375 that sums out to .875". So I take the 1.555 minus the .875, and I get 0.68 which is the amount I need to cut the Kubota flywheel thickness down.
Is that all correct?????
Is that the correct theory??
I need to find a machine shop to cut my flywheel cover down.
Also I noticed that the jeep flywheel has I think 12 cutouts for the CPS, I want to duplicate that in the Kubota flywheel
I don't know how the '98's computer is going to handle the the older manual transmission, or if I will need to put the POS jeeps computer in the '98. I really want all '98's gauges to work including the tach. Maybe I can use FTE/Rangmars tach trick
But that is a ways out yet

Yep, sounds like you have the process down!

Yes you would measure from the mounting surface of the block to the face of the flywheel where the friction disc would go against along with any factory spacers that might have been used.

And I just thought of this very thing today. I would also check to see what flywheel Min and Max measurements would be for the stock flywheel. Or in other words from as thick as a brand new flywheel to one that has been re-surfaced a time or two. By doing this it will give you an allowable variance for flywheel wear over time.

I only thought of this due to the fact of the needed work to make the Kubota Flywheel work correctly. As in if the factory Flywheel that we would measure from would be at the Minimum thickness then if we should have to resurface the Kubota flywheel then the engagement and or disengagement of the clutch may not be correct or even work at all.

But that is just my thoughts. I know FTE informed me to Forget most things that would transfer over from HP Gas & Alcohol Engines but I feel a few things can be used. If I am wrong please by all means correct me.

bad news at the machine shopS. the first shop wanted $250 to $300 to cut the flywheel housing down to size. He said it would be a lot cheaper if I ground out the inside webs before he started. The second shop wanted $200 and said it would probably be easier to copy what was there onto a piece of 1/2" plate. I do have the CAD drawing for the jeep ax15 from someone on this forum I think. I will have to check. Next on the bad news, I called the bolt shop and they told me they had the replacement 10mm flat head screws I needed for the turbo flange, I got all the way into town and OOP's I thought you asked for #$%, we Don' t have what you need. So 0 for 2 on my trip to town.
Mail order works so much better. I got a oilpan, bolt set, and dipstick tube from Same at Lenard's , that will be here the middle of next week.
I am going to see if I can chuck up the flywheel cover in the mill on the rotary table and slice on it with an end mill, then if it is rough cut I can take it back the the machine shop and have them face it too final thickness.

I do not know what kind of mill that you will use but if you use a Fly Cutter you should not need to have anyone do any finish work. And they are not all that expensive.

now I am kind of thinking the same thing. or better yet I may switch to a one piece solid aluminum adapter plate. I think I have some 3/4" plate, I am sure I have enough 1/2".
The 1/2" seems a little light to me, For sure too light to do a one piece pick up and install of the engine and trans while they are hooked together. it might be easier to make the one piece adapter than to try and align a 2 piece adapter.
Does anyone have opinions on how much flywheel width reduction is best. The thinner the adapter the more I have to shave the flywheel and vice versa, so I guess there will be a minimum thickness for the adapter.

In my own simple opinion I would try to keep the Flywheel as thick as I would be able to. My reason for this is simple really. With a heavier flywheel it will help the resonance of the Diesel or to say help it to run smoother and deliver smooth TQ.

If you wish for the Diesel to turn RPM Faster then a lighter flywheel would be desired but the engine will not run as smooth.

As for strength of the Flywheel I have yet to really take a hard look at it. But due to the low pressure point of the type of clutch systems most are running I would think that you could make the flywheel pretty thin without clutch warp during use.

But again I would try and keep the Flywheel as thick as you are able to do so.

I was thinking more about rev speed. But I did not want to take a bunch off , just what is necessary. I think the minimum is probably close to .25" just to get rid of the Kubota lip and make it all flat for the new clutch. I hope I have enough 3/4" plate I think that will be fine.
tonight I am looking on the internet for a CAD drawing of the AX15 bolt pattern, or the Jeep I6 pattern. The jeep I6 is supposed to be identical to a lot of other engines, so many, that it is very confusing to try and figure out. I don't have CNC, but having the measurements will help a lot.
So if anyone has the bolt pattern measurements/drawings for a GM v-8, or Jeep or Chrysler v-8 I would like to take a look. I did find the Kubota measurements Redveloce sent me months ago

I cut down the Kubota flywheel cover with a cut-off wheel on the angle grinder before I dropped it off at the machine shop. All he had to do was a final clean-up pass on the mill. That saved me alot of $ in shop time.

I am sorry you lost me on Rev Speed?

As I understand it the Kubota V2203 DI has a governor to prevent the engine from over revving. As this is the reason to replace the factory governor spring with a heavier one to increase the RPM Capability of the Kubota V2203 DI. So no matter how light of a Flywheel you make of which will enable the Kubota V2203 DI Rev faster to the stop point of the Governor. Unless the Governor spring will let the Engine Rev above its capabilities.

Hi FTE, Thanks for catching up. that is pretty much exactly what my machinist said, If I do most of the work he will just face it, to final dimension and make sure it is square. So I bought 15 new cutoff wheels this afternoon. I also already chucked up the bellcover in the mill, and started to mill out the webs from the inside of the bell cover.
But now I am having a little bit of doubts, If I have a big chunk of aluminum out there it might be a bit easier to just make a one piece adapter.
On the negative side of the one piece. The Kubota Bell cover sure does fit on the engine ( like it was made for it) I had to hit mine with a block of wood to get it off the engine it was very tight, or I should say a very nice fit. Probably much closer tolerances than I can create.
As this is my first adapter , I have a basic plan, but there are a few holes in my plan I think.
I can get the transmission centered up on the outer ring of the adapter plate. I was going to make a tight fitting sleeve to fit over the throw out bearing support, and the Pointy end could center up into the adapter plate, at say a .5" hole, and then I could drill the 6 outer trans mount holes.
I guess then I would have to make another plug that would be much thinner, and it could have a big end that fits the big center hole in the Kubota bell cover and the pointy end would also center into the same 1/2" hole in the adapter, and I could drill the 12 Kubota holes into the adapter.
So the 12 Kubota bolts have to be replaced with longer bolts to fit through the bell cover and the adapter plate?? Is that correct , It is pretty hard to type the description.
I remember that you added some dowels to fit your adapter to the Kubota Bell cover, I don't remember why?
I am running out of steam tonight. I am sure I missed something

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Hi Jester, I meant rev acceleration. how fast the revs come up. Same thing with a racing gasser and a light flywheel. it is what you said, I just said it different

Well with the Kubota limited RPM range I do not feel there would be an advantage in using a light Flywheel. Actually there would be more of a downside.

Now a Road Race Car or Sprints or any other activity that would rely on quick acceleration from corning and such a Light Flywheel is the Ticket.

And if Drag Racing a heavier flywheel is preferred. Heck I still remember people running 60 LB Flywheels behind Big Block Chevys. But I digress. Back to the little Smoker :c:

What I did to center the two was I turned a "plug" to fit in the center of the flywheel cover with a 1/4 in center, then I was able to line that up with the 1/4 in center in the trans input shaft. I also made a sleve to stabilize the input shaft to the throughout brg collar. So with a 1/4 in hole in the 1/4 steel plate lined up with the 1/4 in hole in the plug,lined up to the input shaft,then those two pinned together and the holes indexed to the flywheel cover and bellhousing. Hope that helps.

I got to spend most of the afternoon and evening in the shop. I rough cut the flywheel cover down close to where it needs to be. I tried to use a big end mill to bring it down to size. I was not happy with the results. I was going to have to make 2 setups in the machine to get the full diameter cut. My mill only has a 15" travel on the short side. and the cover is over that. Plus my first cuts were not coming out nice and flat. the cover was bouncing on the table, I think I was taking too big a cuts
My biggest problem machining stuff is getting the set up correct and sturdy enough. I seem to do OK on little stuff. But when it comes to big setups I really have trouble.
In the picture I was going to use the little end mill just to mark the cover at the 1/2" thick mark and then I planned to make the main cuts with a cut off blade on a electric die grinder. Well I got about 3/4 of the way around and all of a sudden my cutter takes a jump, and I look at the set up on the chuck and the dam plate had slipped off the chuck about 1/16". So that was setup workholding prolem #1. Then I set up the cover flat on the table to try and mill it flat, I put 2 heavy flat bar clamps on to hold it too the table, I cranked this down tight tight. and it held for a few minutes and then it started to jump too. I am not sure what was causing that
I am sure it is my fault. but it seems that the bigger machines are a lot more rigid, and much better for larger jobs
Well on Monday I think I will take the cover into the machine shop and let a pro get the cover nice and flat and to the correct thickness.
Tomorrow I can start on the alignment plugs and sleeves, and cleaning up the huge mess all that cutting made. I was not wearing a respirator for the first 25 minutes of the cutting, and I am still blowing black out of my nose.
The cut off wheels worked pretty well. I went through 6 3" cutoff wheels to make the rough cuts

You are Whittling it down there Pard. I hope the Machine shop gives you a good price. At the very least after them looking at all the work you did they may just take pity on you and give you a great deal. And yep we all need a bit of pity now and then. :).

thanks, I guess. I am not sure how to feel about that comment :), I am sure the machine shop will get me for a one hour minimum $80.
Jester I like your Intercooler. When is your adapter supposed to arrive?

$80.00 would be well worth it. As for the adapter I have no idea as I have not heard anything as of yet.

I am having a patience problem again. I am going with the 2 piece adapter, because I have all that stuff in stock. My heavy plate was only 5/8" , and I did not think that would be thick enough.
I think it is ambitious, but I want to finish before Thanksgiving

Believe me I hope everything goes smooth for you. As we are Watching :scare2:

Well we will see how the adapter alignment jigs come out tomorrow, that will be an important step.

yall have a good night

tough full day in the shop, with no concrete results. But I have a plan, I think. I am lacking some tooling to bore small deep holes for the sleeve to center the trans input shaft to the throw out bearing collar
Also I think every bolt hole in the jeep bellhousing is about .030"-.040" smaller on the bolt head side than the face side. So transfer punches don't work very well on the trans bell. The holes in the Kubota flywheel cover are nice and straight
There may be something to just using a CAD program.
I wanted to try and lay out the adapter manually, and then check it against CAD drawings and my DRO.
I will try and get some boring tools tomorrow if any of the shops are open on the holiday

some progress made today
 

I only got this evening to work on the adapter, after running all over hell and back trying to get stuff done on the Dakota.
I finished the Transmission input shaft to throw out bearing centering sleeve. It actually came out pretty well.
Also took the Kubota flywheel cover into the machine shop, and picked it up this evening. The Machine shop also had some trouble getting the cover flat. I have not checked it out completely, but the machinist admitted that he was about .030-050" out.
I might put it on my mill and see if I can fix it. but the machinist already went under my desired and requested 0.500" thick
Tomorrow I need to pick a piece of stock for the flywheel cover centering plug. Also I need to cut out Steel for the 2nd half of the adapter. Then I can make a Jig to stand the Transmission up on its tail to get all
it is all coming together slowly.
I am also still looking for a CAD drawing of the AX15 bell housing for the jeep

By all means keep up the great work in showing how to set up and make your own adapter.

But I am dumbfounded by the fact that a Machinist could not set the bell housing up and make it flat. Sorry I have to add this. It is important that the adapter is flat or to say square with the block. Or it will off set the input shaft into the pilot bearing which is not good and also the starter will not be square with the Flywheel starter ring gear. Sorry I do not know what tolerance is acceptable for out of square.

But again Great work.

Hi Jester I would say I am dumbfounded as well. But I am not. My luck with "Skilled Trades" Has been completely Horrible throughout my adult life. That is what prompted me to start doing things myself. It is very very sad. What is even worse is that in these trades unlike some others. People expect to be paid even if the work is no good. I am going to have to go back to this guy and see what we can work out. He only charged me $60. but the damage done far exceeds that, if I have to throw out the flywheel cover. I am just very sad. My next comments would make me sound like a very cynical man, so I will hold my tounge, but I am a cynical man
I have my doubts if I can use this flywheel cover at this point. I carefully measured it this morning and it is all over the place (maybe that is a good thing) There does seem to be a general slope to the tune of about .065", but at the individual bolt holes the readings are really all over the place in a general slope. My guess is that the piece was not butted up against the chuck all the way.
I want to try and salvage the plate. but it is already .065" below the .5" I asked the machinist to take it too. If I can hold to the .065 under and make it flatter I can live with that.

Hew Rocky watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat. I managed to salvage the flywheel cover. I I had to take about .050" off. The finished thickness is 0.445. There was some co-lateral damage though. I had to cut a hole in my wall to get the setup to work in my mill.
I hope to be back on track.
Here is a pic of the flywheel cover at finished thickness

Congrats I am glad to read that things are working out.

Hole in the wall?

You will be ok with the thinner plate because you haven't done the other items yet, so any change in thickness can be made up with the flywheel.

Hi FTE, thanks. I think it will be ok as well. I am working the flywheel cover center plug today. and it is just outside my good measuring tools range. I am going to have to figure something out for it. The ID of the center hole in the plug come out just a little bigger than I wanted, but It will work. I can use the DRO in the Mill to get the ID of the cover. but I don't have anything to measure the OD of the plug while it is in the lathe.
I took as close a measurement as I could get with the DRO on the mill, and then I put the cover in the oven at 450 deg. For the OD of the plug I will have to figure out something with the DRO as well. but It has a mandrel in the plug that I only want to take out once. So I will have to measure it with the mandrel installed.
ok lunch is over time to get back at it.
more updates tonight

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I forgot Red sent me the Kubota drawing that will help a lot

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Well my interference fit from the flywheel cover to the plug was too tight. It went together great, and about 3 minutes into the cooling period I heard a nice little POP, the Kubota flywheel cover cracked in 2 places at the inner and outer ring of the starter boss.
That was a lot of problem for lack of being able to accurately measure over 6". I guess I really needed that 12" caliper. I was trying for a .002" interference fit. As close as I can tell I was at .004" interference.
I am very lucky to have a spare flywheel cover that I got for free. At this point I don't know if I am going to go with a 1 piece adapter or try the 2 piece again.
With Redveloce help I have a full set of CAD measurments for the jeep and the Kubota.

Wow your lucky the Machinest busted my ring gear off my flywheel and almost cut my second flywheel crooked before some else steeped in still charged for the flywheel cover to be cut 50 and luckily redveloce had a spare flywheel I could buy
Looks great so far. Any other pics of your accessorys ?

Hi Red I was just about to go back out to the shop and see if I can formulate a new plan. I put the engine on the floor, to bring the transmission up on the table. I have not got any updates on the accessories. the Alternator is completely finished. the PS pump is mounted but needs a tensioner arm. The AC compressor is basically still in a layout stage. The splined sleeve arrived ot the shop, I have to go pick it up tomorrow
I need to decide if I want to try again with the flywheel cover 2 piece adapter, or if I want to change tacks and try and make a one piece aluminum adapter.
I do have a spare flywheel cover, and I was almost done with the setup for the 2 piece system.
I am done with the machine shop I went too first. I think I am done with machines shops in general. I made a few calls to some other shops, I don't like the attitude I get from the local guys. It just makes it that much worse when I get this holier than thou attitude, and then they screw up the work. If I go with the one piece set up it will take some time to receive the correct stock
I guess I can pull the flywheel cover off my parts engine that alone will take some time.
I don't think I can make my thanksgiving deadline anymore.
I think it seem easier to stay the course witht eh 2 pieces adapter
Thanks for the encouragement