96 powerstroke
 

First i'll say i'm posting for a friend so if i dont have the answer i'll get it immediately. Its a bit of a bad situation. its 37 degrees. his glowplugs are shot. we just put on a relay today hoping it'd give us something. last night trying to start the truck it chugged once on a couple of starts and it would let out a puff of smoke. today its getting no fuel at all it seems like. no smoke at all out of the pipe. this afternoon we got home and read a cps sensor code so i replaced that and that code is gone. he runs off road diesel through it once or twice a month. coming back to p.a. from n.y. this past sunday and through monday he ran two tanks of off road through it. the truck has less than a quarter tank. its on a slight incline. i didnt think the incline would be an issue but he thinks it might be. no mods done except the basic intake and edge "gameboy" programmer. :argh:

put more fuel in it first with an additive. check the fuel filter? see if the bowl is full?

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and i know you said the glow plugs are shot, but if you cross the glow plug relay and try to start it does that make a difference?

without pulling filter totally out the bowl is about half full. more fuel in tank or in bowl? will try crossing the relay but did a check on it and it is functioning. also forgot to mention that the first time we cranked it after i changed the cps he smelled fuel. after that he didnt smell it anymore

what does the filter look like? and put more fuel in the tank just for good measure.

you said no other codes?

hows the oil level?

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also any fuel leaks along the frame rail? up the front of the motor? in the valley? lift pump?

filter looked ok. the only other code is intake air temp which he said he's had since he put the intake on. oil level is perfect. no fuel leaks that i saw.

now i have a couple more thoughts. I was talking to a girl in my diesel class and we're thinking we might be at the point where the fuel will wax a bit but not gel. could this be possible? also last night we took the truck back to stock programming from tow. is there any chance the edge screwed up and shut the fuel off?

Hows the HPOP Res...

you had to say it didnt you :/ havent checked it yet. forgot how. and also really hoping that wasnt where the issue was

Just pull the inspection plug at the top of it and check the level for s&g's

im gonna do that now if he's still awake. after more research is the ipr possible or would that just make it run crappy

its not cold enough yet.
umm, i know 99-03 will have a fuel shutoff (anti theft) if your switching tuners on and off sometimes, but im not completely sure about 94.5-97's..... i wouldnt imagine so. unless it shuts off your idm.

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to be honest i dont think so, you would have a p1211 code or something like that if that failed. thats a common. i dont think it would keep the truck from starting because i've heard of people driving around on bad ones.

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with that scanner, can you look on datastream and see what you high pressure oil is at while cranking (in terms of psi)? needs atleast 450psi to start.

currently 28 degrees. thats not cold enough? tried ipr and nothing. tried going to extreme tune and it was about dead. have to wait for a jump. he says that programmer wont tell you the pressure on the data stream and i dont remember seeing it on there

no, fuel wont wax or gell until like, single digits if its good fuel and if you fuel bowl heater is working.

speaking of which, unplug that too and see what happens! sometimes those heaters come apart inside the fuel bowl, short, and alot of the time it'll shut the truck down. do that and try it again.

OHHHHH i see you used the programmer to read codes. then that wont show you what the HPO pressure is. what you need to look at that is either a mechanical guage or a scanner with datastream.

it seemed like most of my research outside of here led to fuse 22 (fuel heater, pcm, whatnot) he tested the fuse. i need to find a good picture of the fuel heater plug right now.

is there any special type of scanner? we are at wyotech so somebody has to have something

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also as of last night we lost the wait to start light

battery is dead... had the same exact prob with my 97... those things are tough to jump, the only thing that would jump mine was an actual charger/jumper... but then i found out the reason i had such low juice was cause my wiring harness was shot... try wiggling it around a little and see if the wait to start light comes back

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he may need new batteries or he may need a new harness... im thinking that because of the cold it probably dropped his battery power down a bit

but its been fine til tuesday wednesday. we had it cranking pretty dam good. i'll give the wiggling a shot. we've had a 6.0 powerstroke helping us with battery power a lot

If you dont have a WTS light your not getting power to the PCM...

Throw out the off road fuel, that is not relevant.

Throw out the temps, that is not relevant...

First thing you need to do is get power to the PCM.

Without a scanner of some kind your not going to get anywhere.

When cranking you need to look at IPR duty cycle and ICP pressures.

I was hoping you'd chime in. i'm trying to find someone here with one because we cant quite get the truck to a parts store with one. hopefully by the time we get home today we can have one in hand. is there nothing you'd suggest without a scanner in case we cant get one?

I wont be back on until monday night... Dont get on when home on the weekends.

Check the Duty cycle and ICP pressures when cranking. It will not try and fire until it has 500psi. If you see the duty cycle going to 50-60%, just stop cranking until you replace or clean the IPR.

If that doesn't fix it you have an ICP pressure issue with the pump, injectors or worst case a low pressure oil issue.

You say this is a 96 truck?

Be sure to check the fuel pressure at some point. Only need 3-5psi to start the truck, but you should be seeing no less then 40 psi once running.

the edge data stream which doesnt tell me a whole lot says we have a fuel pressure of 5 psi. yes it is a 96 model year truck and i believe i saw a 96 date on the engine

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also is fuel pressure measured before or after the filter?

theres a schrader valve on the right side (drivers side) of the fuel regulator. check it there if you have to.

fuel pressure should be 30-70 psi at idle
atleast 450psi of high pressure oil to start.

a Snap On MODUS scanner, otc, or MAC, or anything that does datastream will get you through. to check duty cycle, if the scanner doesnt do it, youll need an ocilliscope.

also if you turn the key to the "ON" position, do you get a check engine light, odometer, or battery voltage?

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actually wait, you stated earlier that your edge will come on, you can retrieve codes and other things.

YOUR PCM IS POWERED UP. but it may not be good.

the edge reads fuel pressure

all that stuff comes on when the key turns. just no wait to start light

we had the wait to start light up until late last night

Check fuel pressure with an actual gauge... It shouldn't have any pressure without it being cranked or running...

i was looking at the wrong line. however fuel is coming into the bowl from the bottom of the bowl

alright listen, what you need to do is get a scanner on it and see what your high pressure oil is at while cranking.

im assuming you've checked all your fuses?

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and did you do anything differently to make it so the wait to start light would stop coming on? unplug anything?

and another question, when you jumped it. did you make sure the key was off before you hooked up your cables?

Having a real hard time finding a scanner. Only fuses out are trailer stop left and right #s 6 and 7 under hood. It stopped coming on when we unplugged the icp i think it is. Drivers side head. And the engine light came on then too. But its been plugged in since. As for jumping he did it and i wasnt paying attention

well thats actually a good sign. it shows your pcm is powering up and is reading inputs from sensors.

what about fuses from the smartbox under the hood??

i had a 7.3 on one of my batteries and a chevy 2500 with the 6.0 vortec on the other... still wouldnt start it finally decided to try putting a charger on it, cranked it up to 200 and started right up

smartbox? what are you referring to exactly?

also it is cranking pretty fast. we got code p1668 yesterday and checked the idm connector and recieved no power however the relay for the idm is clicking. even so i am going to check the output terminal on that relay. from diagrams i see that the idm relay is the last link before the idm. so there should just be a wire from the relay output to the idm. im thinking this wire may have let go somewhere. i am also doing this with a test light so i may switch to my (its too early to remember the name but it reads voltage and ohms and amps and blah blah blah). but if there is enough power for the relay to click i would assume that would mean there is enough power for the idm. i'm guessing its a matter of checking the connection on the distribution box and the idm connector. if those are in tact then tracing the wire and see where it may have failed.

still no luck on being able to find a scan tool. will look for a battery charger today while i'm testing

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terminal 85 in the dist. box for the relay is not lighting up. my diagram tells me this is distributed by the pcm relay

ok beautiful!

by smartbox i meant power distribution box under the hood, its for "new" term for the same thing...

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ok from what im seeing on that diagram, it looks like the pcm creates a ground for the idm relay to engage (in turn switching on the high amperage side of the relay). i think you got it narrowed down to that relay, a wire, or a bad pcm...

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and also for testing circuits going to your pcm, use a multimeter (what you were trying to find the name for) and not a test light, i've seen too many people fry good pcm's doing that. :ouch:

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Code P1668- PCM TO IDM DIAGNOSTIC COMMUNICATION ERROR :jump: your on the right track good buddy!:c:

ALLDATA says the cause of this could be a broken/shorted EF circuit, damaged IDM or PCM. measure resistance from pin 48 (on a breakout harness) or circuit 818 (gy/w) and IDM harness connector pin# 4. is resistance less than 5 ohms?

what ALLDATA is saying, if its not the pcm or idm (im thinking pcm because of your wait to start light no longer coming on) your looking for a short/open somewhere in your harness from your pcm to power distribution box, or from the box to your IDM

EF? i'm checking further into the idm enable output on the idm. its not lighting.

im not sure what it means either, never heard that term. like i said i think your looking at an IDM or PCM, lets hope not haha

.26 volts in run .44 volts starting from the idm enable output from the pcm

is this what you got or what it should be?

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would you have access to a buddies truck with an IDM you can try for ha ha's? just to eliminate that? or a pcm with the same 4-digit code at the connector?

thats what i got and theres no way that could be enough. i have both of them in ny and so does he but the problem is getting them

today we'll try and get both batteries load tested and see if light duty diesel dept. can help us out on borrowing a pcm and/or idm. right now my take on the situation is this...the first issue was most likely idm related whether it be the relay or the unit is anybodys guess at the moment but that search cant go anywhere until i know if that pcm is functioning correctly. from the sounds of it it's not. right now im guessing he left the key on or something and at one point when we hooked up the jump pack for testing it toasted it.

my thoughts exactly :rocking:

a good possibility is the IDM was doing something it wasnt supposed to do (going bad) and in turn it spread to the pcm. worst case scenario is you have both bad. but get your batteries charged and tested, and keep us updated :c:

i have another question on diagnosis which i believe might make or break my diagnosis. is it safe with a volt meter to test the voltage to the injectors in the injector harness by unplugging one and probing it? second question will it work? i care more about if its completely safe more than will it work. my volt meter has a high range of voltage so i dont think it'd have a problem with the 115v but that number bothers me a bit so i figured id check before i just go ahead and poke at 115v

alright, i dont recommend this but yes it can be done. but DO NOT stab the wire in the back of the connector. unplug the harness at the injector under the valve cover and just touch your leads on the pins in the connector. DO NOT CROSS THEM BY ANY MEANS! and be careful, if you get shocked your not gonna know what hit ya, probably wont know your name for a couple minutes. you should see anywhere from 90-120V, thats your actuating range.

but i dont think your gonna be able to catch it with your meter because of how fast the injection event happens, you'd be better off using an ocilliscope where you can graph it in different time frames, or a laptop with a breakout harness that can watch injector voltage patterns.

but on the other hand, if your injectors were getting voltage, your hpop is good, and your lift pump is good, and granted your IPR is functioning properly and your cam sensor, the truck should start. from what we've diagnosed so far, i dont think your idm is doing anything.

thats where i'm going with it. right now were working on getting the pcm and his other idm which he thinks is probably shot due to water but its worth a shot just in case. hopefully those get shipped down quick. the pcm will go in first and we'll go from there because with the voltage to the idm relay and no power at the connectors theres no way the idm can even try to function right now with the pcm in this shape.

like i said earlier, if your pcm is shot your IDM isnt gonna do anything. but yea try the pcm first see what happens!