Hey, Im not 100% on this one. I have some specs but I will have to dig deep into my notes to find more. I'm also not sure what the specs are on our pickups. These specs also vary on engine model and of course yr!!

HEUI oil pressures fall into range values 485-4000psi
NOP with HEUI is 5000psi
HEUI transfer pump 30-65psi
Caterpillar EUI 5000psi
NOP on most Cat EUI 5,500psi
HPI-TP gear pumps are constant 250psi
Cummins using HPI-TP has 4 ECM actuators ISX cylinders heads also have 2 common rail passages that do Timing, metering, and fuel drain. Cummins Celect Plus ECM's have fuel pressure at 1200RPM minimum of 120psi
Cummins Celect Plus NOP is 5,000 to 25,000psi and 150psi to charge injectors.

Most of the specs are very similar and remember WHATEVER we have in our cars, pickups, ect.. ALL of it was in tractor trailers first. Example.. HUD and Heated seats all our luxury options were introduced in the truck world first!!! Same as EUI and HEUI and all other injection systems. High fuel psi and systems were in the big rigs first!! :s: It's crazy and can get in deep, but Im no expert just learning!! :c:

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I found this on this website. This is specs for our trucks posted by an admin!!

DieselMinded
Administrator
Status: On The Prowl
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Perry Co. Ohio
My Diesel: 2002 Cummins
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5.9L Injectors Tech Specs
Fuel Injector " Pop Off " Pressure

31,026 kPa (310 bars) or (4500 psi +/- 250 psi)

Fuel Injector Leak Down Pressure

App 20 bars (291 psi) lower than pop pressure

Fuel Injector Firing Order

1-5-3-6-2-4

what about useing the 2 stroke in a lmm dura? anyone got any exp. with that one

Personally, I wouldn't run any types of oil or trans (ATF) in any of my fuel besides my weed wacker lol !! Like I said before its all personal pref, but according to the books, any kind of oil contaminates diesel fuel causing blue smoke..Soo if you think it's cleaning out your injectors and or manifold, your actually burning oil.

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Hey fellas,
Try quick experiment, take a clear glass, fill it with diesel and add your 2-stroke and mix it up!! Leave it sit for a day or two, if you take notice the oil will or should separate from the fuel. Oil is thicker and will not, does not add lubrication to your fuel. It sits at the top of fuel tank and when it burns just causes blue smoke, actually contaminating the fuel. Sorry guys dont want to hurt any feelings but you are just wasting money. If you are really concerned buy a product meant for diesel fuel.

before you make a comment you should look at information provided by studies done on additives. HFRR we all know how easy the vp can die. The ulsd fuel is hard on these things. I run the amsoil diesel concentrate in my fuel all the time. I don't trust fuel companies to put the correct amount of things to help with cold weather etc. They are there to make a profit, not keep trucks going. They just want you to buy fuel.

I hear ya but you should used diesel fuel additives not 2-stroke oil lol!! And the fuel companies aren't going to sell shity fuel if the want customers to come back. Like I said 3 times personal preff. Buy fuel from name brand companies not like GAS LAND or EAGLE!! There is plenty of test that been proven thats most additives are b.s. To each is own!!:moon:

You should try that experiment for yourself sometime and get back to us. Can't wait to hear the results. lol
So, just exactly what do you think diesel fuel is then anyway? :w2:
Don't know how your fuel system works, but the fuel in my trucks is constantly being circulated back and forth between the engine while it's running. I been burning used motor oil mixed with 2-stroke in both my trucks for years. They don't smoke unless I want them to, via my right foot. :choochoo:
I'd estimate my saving related to the fuel adds I used over the past three years amounting to at least $1k by now considering the fuel volume itself (extra half gallon/tank), increased MPG and repair costs never incurred due to maintaining my pumps and injectors in top running condition. :rocking:

Sorry dude, but you're just plain wrong.

Cite?

I do agree that with the new fuel, we do need something as a fuel additive to make up for lost ctane and lubrucity. But i do agree however with the fact that using 2 stroke oil is just a waste of money. I will email my rep from power service tomorrow and ask if they have tried/heard such a thing...:nope: But hey what ever blows yer hair back....

Why not run 2 stroke oil it is something that is designed to burn? We are taught a lot of BS in school. I know a few people that been through the diesel tech programs and would not let them touch my truck. A lot of times the schools are paid big bucks my certain companies to push their products and ideas. I do by diesel from the big names, but doesn't mean they do anything for the fact that we now have to run ulsd. You say additives are bs, but how do you support this knowing that independent test prove they actually help. I am not doing it for added mpg gain, but to keep my vp alive. I have almost 200k on the original one. Had the pump tapped since 120k but have had a steady diet of amsoil diesel concentrate. The ones I know that don't add anything have gone through 2 pumps. Had to pull the tank due to the fuel sender not working and my tank was nice and clean inside too.

MOchanics and Technicians
 

Easy buddy lol I dont care what u guys want to put in your fuel. I understand diesel is type of oil or same type of principles but nowhere near motor oil. Yes, buy additives meant for diesel fuel. but sorry dude..2-stroke and oil, ATF, w.e is WRONG!!! I have books from school stating it contaminates fuel. Just sharing what I was taught in DIESEL school, not contradicting anyone, do as you please!! Thats like if you have oil heat which is type of diesel , and add 2-Stroke or motor oil to it....it's going to eventually ruin your furnace.:pca1: They have special furnaces that burn used oils!! Can't imagine what it does to the flashpoint!! Try mixing diesel in your motor oil!! ANYWAY I'M DONE!!!! KEEP ON TRUCKING!!!! By the way we are here to help each other not argue!! PEACE!!!:tu:

DonnyK, all you have brought to the table here is what you say. Like I asked before, cite the books and studies you claim unless you expect us to just take your word for it.

Sorry, but I don't know you from Jack, and from the sound of your postings I'm becoming less and less inclined to believe anything you post. I don't play the he-said, she-said game or refer to any phanton test studies, just my own personal experience. Take it with however many grains of salt you choose. :w2:

If Tinman was smart he wouldn't put much stock in what some salesman trying to sell him product says either.

Can't wait to hear about that. :pca1:

Oh by the way, our school isn't sponsored by ANY fuel companies, and our books aren't written by the school LOL it's a dif company, delmar.cengage.com or autoed.cengage.com
This is also why MOST shops don't hire untrained or non-certified techs. I would also love to see cite or OEM manual thats says to put ATF or 2-Stroke or used oil in your fuel!!:jump: Take advice from the guys who drive real rigs ALL day EVERY day, they would know best!!:c:
I also wouldn't think OEM's would put b.s in their books sense they want trained techs working and standing by their equipment. :argh: 80,000lbs rigs getting 17-23 mpg with 600 hp hhmmmmmm :tu: GENIUSES!!

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My school site is enginecitytech.com and the school was just bought by Lincoln, my diploma is Engine City tho. I have 3 books that I purchased which they don't post on internet for free lol we pay for them. If I cared enough to prove it to you I can take pics of the book and post them, but it's not worth my time arguing!! Like I said you can p*ss in your fuel and swear on it all day, thats fine by me!! BUT is there really no trained techs on this site willing to back this up a little. :argh: I'm just going to go by what I was taught, if I ask my service manager at Cat if it was ok to dump 2-stroke in brand new machine, he probably fire me!! :dang:

Look skippy, you're not getting out of it this easy. you said:

So let's see it. Put up or shut up. :bat:

ok if u insist. brb
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how do I post pics on threads?

Attachment 13819

OK, here u go my books, and small clip out of a page, I dont have a scanner so it's best I can do!! I'm going to do a little more reading thats states more info..I suggest you do some yourself!! :moon:

That was the uh, "blue smoke argument?"

:lol88:

You're kidding, right? :lol:

It's part of it, but if u can read look at last sentence, says clearly!!! I can find it in the other chapters, your just one of those old school guys that don't want to hear it!! I've proved my point!! :rocking:

My contaminated fuel burns pretty clean. :humm:

it's saying excessive oil. cummins states you can run 5% waste engine oil in your fuel. atf I understand it's not designed to burn. Too much engine oil yet. 2 stroke oil is designed to burn. If you mix at 128:1 your not hurting anything. Too much 2 stroke oil can cause adverse effects, but this is why you follow the studies.

Attachment 13820

See, like I said higher cetain levels, LESS MPG, LESS LUBE, so it's not making any extra performance, not cleaning sh*T, and doesn't make the fuel any better that what it is!! Ask me anything u want to know bout fuel!! I got 2 or 3 Chapters all about it!! Doesn't say anything about excessive and 5% lol is nothing but why put dirty a$$ oil in your nice clean fuel!! Please help me understand guys??

Maybe you're just confused about the subject of this thread?

5% of a 30-gallon tank would be 1.5 gallons or about a 28-to-1 ratio. Typical add rates are 1/10th of that. I run 60-to-1.

Ever heard of the Centinel system?

I think you need to go back and really understand what your saying. cetane is what you mean. here is some info for you on it. Cetane number - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Just because you read a few chapters doesn't make you any where near an expert. What I get from that article is the simple fact that you can raise the cetane level to 55 for maximum efficiency. US fuel has a cetane ranging from 42-45 so yes adding cetane will help. So yes you are making the fuel better. The additive will help to clean deposits left behind. I run a fass system with a 2micron filter so I am not really worried about particles, but more on the lubricity of the fuel. and from that table I posted back I do know that 2 stroke oil and amsoil diesel fuel concentrate does help in that aspect. And this was an independent lab test. My truck doesn't smoke blue, or white. It will blow a cloud of black if I am not careful, but thats to be expected with the injectors I am running.

I have also herd from old school techs a diesel engine will run off straight engine oil!! Possible run-away can occur when this happens, also dinosaurs cummins can run on some nasty old fuel and almost anything else u can put in there, like L10's!!

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Believe what you want brotha!! I am by no means an expert and NO ONE here is!!! Burning fuel with high cetane can cause the injectors to run hotter, so if that is cleaning then ok!! I'm just sharing what I learned so put what you want to in your trucks but not best idea to be recommending ppl do these things, may cause damage to some1's truck and its DEFF NOT RECOMMENDED BY OEM :scare2: Besides I'm not against all of the additives lol, I use PS in my truck once in awhile too, helps keep fuel tanks stabilized, extra lube, de-gel, all that but decrease my mpg and doesnt make it burn cleaner lol just hotter, can make your eyes water when u smell it!! :rocking: Have fun burning dirty fuel!!!! :c:

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Why go cheap way out and use 2-stroke and dirty oil?? Our cummins engines aren't cheap now a days!! Buy a product recommended for diesel fuel or as and additive, read bottle of 2-stroke doesn't say add to diesel fuel, lol says gasoline!!! :tttt:

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I don't really want to understand this thread. Putting 2-stroke in your diesel truck is just stupid...sorry!! Have fun, I'm going to try to learn something important, and hopefully get to speak with some real technicians!! Thanx guys!!

The day everyone lines up to buy the book and listen to the seminar on diesel fuel technology from a wet-behind-the-ears just graduated from diesel tech brainwashing school who can't spell will be the day I stop burning lubricity adds in my trucks.

Until then, experience talks, B_llsh_t walks. :rocking:

You should take your own advice and stick the the "learning" part of your avatar status for awhile.

Brainwashing school?? WOW you are really a d*mb f*ck... I don't care about spelling sense I'm a tech not english teacher, and you have experience with OLD trucks, like yourself!!! They have schools for a reason not to teach ppl to do things the wrong way!! Take your own advice and buy a book you illiterate, I learned from ppl who have waaay more experience than you, as it seems!! Can't believe they allow ppl to post b.s that makes no sense!!! What is this mypace for ppl who think they know diesels?? Truth hurts man and you cant admit your wrong. Have fun wasting your money, by looks of your truck you don't have much!!

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I'm still wondering and waiting to hear an explanation on how 2-stroke or used oil helps?? Some1 show me a site or oem book, you told me to show proof, I did, and your still running out the mouth about experience!! Like you said, I don't know you for jack, lets see proof, not you saying how well it works!!! If it's such a great idea to use it why don't they put it on the bottle, or why isn't it in your owners manual?? Sounds more like some backyard mechanic and hillbilly rumors!!!

I don't see the need to bash a guy like you just did...everyone has their own way. As the saying goes, "there's more than one way to skin a cat.". DonnyK....spelling may not mean much to you but, if you are trying to prove a point and look dignified and not like a dolt spouting off......brush up. Remember, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

I'm not bashing any1 guys, but when you are saying diesel schools are b.s you must be an illiterate!! They don't have programs to train ppl to do the wrong things. (maybe in your world) I just want some proof where it's stated it's ok to run 2-stroke and used oils. I want to see an OEM or manufacture thats says to use it as an additive? PLEASE??? I never said I knew more than anybody here nor did I jump down any1's throat until I got it first. I proved my point and I'm just waiting to see the truth!! ANYBODY!!!!

there is a link somewhere on this forum that provides proof that 2 stroke is benefitial......but the used oil was actually harmful. Not my research nor do I have a "side", just some research I've read here a while back.

I have been googling it and looking everywhere!!! There is no OEM or manufacture that recommends it. All I can find is other forums of ppl like us debating the issue. Call a dealer and ask them there thoughts, but be prepared to get laughed at!! :argh: Does any1 here know the diff between a diesel engine and 2-stroke diesel engine?? THEY DON'T EVEN USE 2-STROKE OIL!!! LOL it's just they way the design is to increase hp!!! :w2:
Hey Captain, how much snow you guys get over there and hows the dodge handling it??

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over all it's been a fun debate..I'm not criticizing anyone, so please fella's do as u please!! I'm just saying it's not a recommendation to run 2-stroke as an additive so don't take advice from others to do soo.. keep it in your own truck!! KEEP TRUCKING!!! :choochoo:

you proved nothing the little parts you posted out of a book had nothing to do with fuel additives. Too much of any additive can be a bad thing. But as stated before Cummins allows for 5% weo to be used. I would not use weo but some do. I have run 2 stroke oil and gained a little mpg and know that it was helping the lubricity of the fuel. as stated in this test. HFRR I never said that school was bs, but some things people learn in school is not always correct. A lot of the mechanics as dealers are right out of school and only know what the book says. Just like Ford says on their 6.0 you can .002 between cylinders on a head and thats within spec. they measure only between the 2 cylinders when testing this. Not put a straight edge across the head and measure it. OEM want you to buy more vehicles so they make sure their cars and trucks will live past warranty and thats all they care about. The mighty dollar. I am not saying don't go to school, but school is not the only way to learn. Yeah you have one book that states this, but it's possible there is others that state it different. These companies that make aftermarket fuel additives spend a lot of money on testing. It's not hurting your truck to put them in your fuel unless it contains alcohol or something that breaks down the fuel.

ohh yeah and the background on that study.
The following are the preliminary results of a research study on diesel fuel Lubricity Additives. There is likely to be further commentary and explanation added at a future time.

PURPOSE:

The purpose of this research was to determine the ability of multiple diesel fuel additives to replace the vital lubricity component in ULSD (Ultra Low Sulfer Diesel) fuel.

HISTORY:

ULSD fuel is the fuel currently mandated for use in all on road diesel engines. This fuel burns cleaner and is less polluting than it’s predecessor, called Low Sulfer Diesel Fuel. Low sulfer fuel contained less than 500 ppm of sulfer. ULSD contains 15 ppm or less.
As diesel fuel is further refined to remove the polluting sulfer, it is inadvertently stripped of its lubricating properties. This vital lubrication is a necessary component of the diesel fuel as it prevents wear in the fuel delivery system. Specifically, it lubricates pumps, high pressure pumps and injectors. Traditional Low sulfer diesel fuel typically contained enough lubricating ability to suffice the needs of these vital components. ULSD fuel, on the other hand, is considered to be very “dry” and incapable of lubricating vital fuel delivery components. As a result, these components are at risk of premature and even catastrophic failure when ULSD fuel is introduced to the system. As a result, all oil companies producing ULSD fuel must replace the lost lubricity with additives. All ULSD fuel purchased at retail fuel stations SHOULD be adequately treated with additives to replace this lost lubricity. The potential result of using inadequately treated fuel, as indicated above, can be catastrophic. There have been many documented cases of randomly tested samples of diesel fuel. These tests prove that often times the fuel we purchase is not adequately treated and may therefore contribute to accelerated wear of our fuel delivery systems. For this reason it may be prudent to use an after market diesel fuel additive to ENSURE adequate lubrication of the fuel delivery system. Additionally, many additives can offer added benefits such as cetane improver, and water separators or emulsifiers.

CONTENT:

In this study we will test multiple diesel fuel additives designed to replace lost lubricity. The primary component of this study is a side-by-side laboratory analysis of each additive’s ability to replace this vital lubricity. Additionally, claims of improving cetane, water separation or emulsification, bio-diesel compatibility and alcohol content will be noted. These notes were derived from information that was readily available to consumers (via the label and internet information) and none of this information has been evaluated for validity and/or performance. Cetane information has only been noted if the word “cetane” was used in the advertising information. The words “improves power” has not been translated to mean “improves cetane” in this evaluation. Information on alcohol content is provided by indicating “contains no alcohol”. Omission of the words “contains no alcohol” does not imply that it does contain alcohol. This information was simply missing in the information available to a consumer. However, the possibility of a form of alcohol in these products is possible. Additionally, information on dosages and cost per tankful are included for comparison purposes.

How Diesel Fuel Is Evaluated For Lubricating Ability:

Diesel fuel and other fluids are tested for lubricating ability using a device called a “High Frequency Reciprocating Rig” or HFRR. The HFRR is currently the Internationally accepted, standardized method to evaluate fluids for lubricating ability. It uses a ball bearing that reciprocates or moves back and forth on a metal surface at a very high frequency for a duration of 90 minutes. The machine does this while the ball bearing and metal surface are immersed in the test fluid (in this case, treated diesel fuel). At the end of the test the ball bearing is examined under a microscope and the “wear scar” on the ball bearing is measured in microns. The larger the wear scar, the poorer the lubricating ability of the fluid. Southwest Research runs every sample twice and averages the size of the wear scar.
The U.S. standard for diesel fuel says a commercially available diesel fuel should produce a wear scar of no greater than 520 microns. The Engine Manufacturers Association had requested a standard of a wear scar no greater than 460 microns, typical of the pre-ULSD fuels. Most experts agree that a 520 micron standard is adequate, but also that the lower the wear scar the better.

METHOD:

An independent research firm in Texas was hired to do the laboratory work. The cost of the research was paid for voluntarily by the participating additive manufacturers. Declining to participate and pay for the research were the following companies: Amsoil and Power Service. Because these are popular products it was determined that they needed to be included in the study. These products were tested using funds collected by diesel enthusiasts at “dieselplace.com”. Additionally, unconventional additives such as 2-cycle oil and used motor oil were tested for their abilities to aid in diesel fuel lubricity. These were also paid for by members of “dieselplace.com”.
The study was conducted in the following manner:
-The Research firm obtained a quantity of “untreated” ULSD fuel from a supplier. This fuel was basic ULSD fuel intended for use in diesel engines. However, this sample was acquired PRIOR to any attempt to additize the fuel for the purpose of replacing lost lubricity. In other words, it was a “worst case scenario, very dry diesel fuel” that would likely cause damage to any fuel delivery system. This fuel was tested using the HFRR at the Southwest Research Laboratory. This fuel was determined to have a very high HFRR score of 636 microns, typical of an untreated ULSD fuel. It was determined that this batch of fuel would be utilized as the baseline fuel for testing all of the additives. The baseline fuel HFRR score of 636 would be used as the control sample. All additives tested would be evaluated on their ability to replace lost lubricity to the fuel by comparing their scores to the control sample. Any score under 636 shows improvement to the fuels ability to lubricate the fuel delivery system of a diesel engine.

BLIND STUDY:

In order to ensure a completely unbiased approach to the study, the following steps were taken:
Each additive tested was obtained independently via internet or over the counter purchases. The only exceptions were Opti-Lube XPD and the bio-diesel sample. The reason for this is because Opti-Lube XPD additive was considered “experimental” at the time of test enrollment and was not yet on the market. It was sent directly from Opti-Lube company. The bio-diesel sample was sponsored by Renewable Energy Group. One of their suppliers, E.H. Wolf and Sons in Slinger, Wisconsin supplied us with a sample of 100% soybean based bio-diesel. This sample was used to blend with the baseline fuel to create a 2% bio-diesel for testing.
Each additive was bottled separately in identical glass containers. The bottles were labeled only with a number. This number corresponded to the additive contained in the bottle. The order of numbering was done randomly by drawing names out of a hat. Only Spicer Research held the key to the additives in each bottle.
The additive samples were then sent in a box to An independent research firm. The only information given them was the ratio of fuel to be added to each additive sample. For example, bottle “A” needs to be mixed at a ratio of “480-1”. The ratio used for each additive was the “prescribed dosage” found on the bottle label for that product. Used motor oil and 2-cycle oil were tested at a rationally chosen ratio of 200:1.
The Research Laboratory mixed the proper ratio of each “bottled fluid” into a separate container containing the baseline fuel. The data, therefore, is meaningful because every additive is tested in the same way using the same fuel. A side-by-side comparison of the effectiveness of each additive is now obtainable.

THE RESULTS:

These results are listed in the order of performance in the HFRR test. The baseline fuel used in every test started at an HFRR score of 636. The score shown is the tested HFRR score of the baseline fuel/additive blend.
Also included is the wear scar improvement provided by the additive as well as other claimed benefits of the additive. Each additive is also categorized as a Multi-purpose additive, Multi-purpose + anti-gel, Lubricity only, non-conventional, or as an additive capable of treating both gasoline and diesel fuel.
As a convenience to the reader there is also information on price per treated tank of diesel fuel (using a 26 gallon tank), and dosage per 26 gallon tank provided as “ounces of additive per 26 gallon tank”.

your right school is not the only way to learn,

and i think that the low sulfer diesel needs more lubrication, and i dont see why doony k doesnt think that 2 stroke oil wont mix with diesel because it mixes fine with gas,
imho, it mixes with the diesel and provieds better lubrication for the pump

ok here is a test by DieselPower mag.

Fuel Additive Test - Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel - Diesel Power Magazine

Check it out, does say 2-stroke will help lubricate and may increase mph but very little. Doesn't increase cetane or used as a cleaner. I also never said school is the only way to learn, I worked in shop for 2yrs before school and now in another one. I learn more from experienced techs that have been in business for years!! They know best!! Ok 2-stroke will help lube "SORRY I was mistaken", but doesnt do anything else and IMO which is ONLY an opinion, doesn't pay to use it!! The additives you buy and they sell does it ALL for you!! If your trying to save a couple bux then maybe it's worth it to you, but isn't getting the same qualities as a good additive. I'm no sales man either but it's your own choice. :c:

calm down guys...

ok guys youre all tearing apart 2-stroke oil. well what do you think of running some biodiesel blends? I have also been wondering about running zmax in my 351 gasser. what do yall think about zmax?

Cummins seems to think used old will not hurt your engine...

https://quickserve.cummins.com/info/.../centinel.html

cool info man, i ran used 15-40 and used tranny fluid in the old 6.2 and she loved it.:c:

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i think that bio diesel when refined is ok to run, we used to run it in all the trucks and somtimes in the semis, i never tried or seen any one try to run unrefined veggy oil, herd its a pain.

Got a good buddy that filters it to get out chunks and pours 5-10 gallons into his tank at each fill up. Truck runs great!

I noticed a slight mpg increase with 2 stroke oil,I run 200:1.It also runs quieter and a tad cleaner.I like to run PS grey 200:1 with that too,which makes it run even cleaner.(not sure where the stings the eyes and nose thing,yer not supposed to sniff the jug,lol.)(Couldn't hold that back sorry!)But if I can't afford both I just run 2 stroke.I agree that it does settle out of the diesel somewhat,as I can see it in the golden rod filter on my slip tank.Circulate for 10 seconds before I fill my truck and it's fine.So unless you are mixing 50:1 and don't keep more than a 1/16th of a tank of fuel in your truck,no way are you gonna suck up a slug of straight oil.There is plenty of circulation through the return line.I know this because I once rigged up a 5 litre jerry can under the hood to the suck side of the LP to eliminate an air problem I was trying to figure out,and I made it about 5 blocks and ran out of fuel.:humm:...:argh: