Pic Of The P-Pump Swap!
 

Thought id post up a pic of the ole first gen with the new p-pump hanging off of it

very nice! :tu: :choochoo:

nice, how much did that run ya?

How complicated is it to P-Pump a 1st gen? I hear there's A LOT involved doin it to a 24V truck, but figured it'd be easier on the older ones.

:tu:

very nice:tu:

Looks good, ya traitor!:poak: Seriously, looks tight, man.:tu: Let's hear some details...:pca1:

i am soooooo jellious!!!! looks great tho.

:tu::tu:very nice everything looks very cleany done :wow:

Well here are the details of the swap i hope you guys enjoy!!!!!!!!!


Here I have removed the grill and getting ready to remove the front bumper. When removing the grill dont forget that there are two small screws in the center of the grill holding it on. Took me a bit to find out what was holding it, lol

Here is the grill, bumber a/c condenser, intercooler all out of the way. what I did to make it a little easier to get the camshaft out a little easier down the road was to take a cut off wheel and cut the center support out of the grill ( ill re-weld it when its back together)

Here I have pulled the valve covers, fuel lines, and ready to take off the injection pump. Just remember its a good idea to lock your pump in "time" before removal. Just take and roll the engine till its at TDC compression stroke by pushing in the plastic timing pin in the back of the case. Will make it a whole lot easier if you ever go to use it again. Also disconnect the heater hoses and pipes. This will make it alot easier for cylinder head removal later on.

Here you can see the cylinder head removed ( I will be installing A .020 over marine head gasket and ARP studs, you do not need to remove the head to do a P-pump Swap, but you will need to remove valve covers and pushrods to hold up the lifts for camshaft removal to get the old Ve gear case off.) U must use some form of tool to hold the lifters up so u can remove the camshaft from the block. I used 1/2" wood dowles, seat them into the lifter and tap them with a hammer, pull them up and put a zip tie on them to hold them in place.

Here you can see the dowels in the block holding up the lifters keep these in place till the cam is put back in the block. You can now remove the camshaft and the front cover. You can see the p-pump cover in plave ( make sure all gasket sealing surfaces are clean before reassembly, so you dont

Here you will notice the oil line that will go to the P-pump. Do not forget to get these steel braided lines when you are sourcing your parts for the swap. There is a T fitting that screws into the block and two steel braided hoses one that goes to the vaccum pump and the other that goes to the p-pump. I had to use the longer one to go to the p-pump beacuse of the way it sits. Also you will need to remove the insulation that covers the pushrod cove as the pump will not fit in place with it attached.

Here is the pump installed, with the calbes and fuel lines hooked up. Also remember when sourcing parts to get the fuel return tube and the bolt that attaches it to the back of the pump. Get an accelerator cable from a 1994 manual trans truck. This will make all the connections very easy for the throttle. Remember to get the throttle brackets that attach to the side of the pump as these are pretty hard to find. You will also see that the pump gear( make sure to clean the pump shaft surface and the hole in the pump gear with carb cleaner, starting fluid before you put the gear on the shaft, if it has oil on it, the gear can slip after final torque and cause timing to jump then you have to re-time the pump all over again!)and camshaft is back in. REMEMBER when installing your cam there are cam timing marks on the cam and crank gear. There are two zeros on the pump gear and one zero on the crank gear. Make sure the single zero is in the center of the two zeros on the pump gear.

Here you can see the gear case all put back together. Just put the pump gear nut on finger tite for now(you will torque it down when after you time your pump), and remember to use a new front crank seal in your cover(with no lube on the crank snout) Then reassemble the valve train, adjusting to .010 on the intake side and .020 on the exhaust side. I adjusted them the hard way i guess i just rolled the engine over till each valve was sitting on the base circle of the cam that way I know for sure you get an acrate adjustment.

Then after that you can put your injection pump in time, start by taking the hex shaped plug off the side of the pump. Then you will se a plastic forked pin thats your timing tab. you will need to spin the engine over by hand untill you see a flat metal tab directly in the center of the hole were that pin came out of. Then install the forked portion of that tab into the slot engageing that metal tab in the pump. then put the hex shape plug back on only hand tight. Then take ang torque the pump gear nut to 11ft lbs. this will hep to ensure the pump dont turn while you spin over the engine.

After that make sure the pump gear is loose from the shaft you will have to use a puller and two 8x1.25mm bolts to pop the pump gear loose. Take and spin the ening over till your on the compression stroke on number 1 cylinder. Then take a ratchet and a 15mm socket and spin the engineclockwise wile pushing in on the black plastic timing pin on the back of the case, directly under the pump untill it engages the cam gear. After that you are at 100% TDC on compression stroke. You now can begin to torque the pump gear nut. Take and apply green penetrating threadlocker to the pump shaft before torquing. Now is a good time to remove that hexshaped plug on the side of the pump and double check it has not moved, once verified that it has not. have some one hold a breaker bar on one of the balancer bolts while you torque the pump gear nut to 150 Ft lbs. let thread locker set up for bout 30min before intial start up. This pump timing method will put you at stock timing a good place to start tuning from.:rocking:

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bout $1200 all together

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As you can see from the write up, not to bad at all. So give it a try!!!:choochoo:

Very nice! I'm gonna add it to the sticky!

Sweet thanks bud!!!:jump:

Nice dude, looks sweet.

I didnt see a tab on your dowel pin? You did remember to do that didnt you?

So this swap was worth it? What kinda power you look at making now?

Saved to favorites for when I have the time/money to do the swap!

Oh yes, I took it out completly,lol

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So far yes! I still have stock injectors, stock delivery valves, and its set at stock timing. This thing will be nasty with the other hop up parts I have for it. Just playing it safe for now till I get the head re-torqued, Should be next week when the other fun stuff goes in!! Even with the stock stuff still on it it has so much more high rpm pull to it than with the maxed out Ve. Its to much fun!!!!!! I wouls say it will have no problem getting into the mid 500hp range.

Seriously? The KDP keeps the timing case in place and prevents it from walking.

I always been told it was just for assembly purpose.

I dont think so.

All the researh I have found... It serves no purpose other then locating the case during assembly. I think the bolts do a pretty good job of holding it in place. At the same time I have found nothing that says you can or cant just remove it...

Very cool truck :tu:

Thats also what I have been told, the pin was used to line it up and its bolted into place.

Maybe Im wrong - cant remember...or I never knew...lol

The pin is in there, in particular in the 12V's with the weight of the pump pulling on the case all the time to prevent the shearing affect on the bolts. The bolts create the clamping force to hold the gear case tight but the pin prevents the bolt's from shearing.

yeah and how do u know the case is in the right position for proper gear mesh without the pin. there is too much slop in the bolt holes for them to properly align the case.

I know it sucks, but you better pull that cover and put the pin back in. There are 2 dowel pins on the gear housing, the KDP above the cam gear and one on the lower pass side of the block. Those 2 pins will insure the case is exactly where it needs to be. I really think you are tempting fate with your new cool upgrade by removing it.

Also, on top of the weight of the P Pump (36 or 42lbs I don't remember), you are also fighting the pumping force of the P Pump. They take a considerable amount of power to rotate, and that will also attempt to force the cam and pump gears apart. Remember, the crank and pump gears rotate clockwise, which is capable of pushing the pump off the cam gear.

Other than that great write up and great job.:c:

Traitor. . . . :tttt:

The only thing the tab is for is ease of assembly on the assembly line at cummins, serves no other purpose other than making a big mess when it falls out, thats how I kill all of my dowel pins, havent had ne trouble yet.

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You are correct sir! My uncle worked on the assembly line for 41 years at the cummins plant in columbus, that was there only purpose to speed up assembly time.

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pop it out after the case is on

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Thats why there is a mounting bracket that bolts to the bottom of the P-pump to the side of the block to take the strain off the case.

I guess we all have different ways of doin things, each and to there own i guess. besides the bolts used to hold the cover on are a metric 9.5 witch is roughly a grade 5 in standard. and the tab is a grade 2, so not much help in shear strength i wouldnt think. plus what is there like 10 or better bolts that hold the cover on? I guess untill i see a case crack or something ill stick with this way, lol

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But at Any rate, thanks every one for all your kind words I hope alot of other members can find this info very usefull when attempting a swap themselves:rocking:

So, you're telling me that the engineers did not take into account the torsional shear support of the pin in relation to the case around the center of rotation and the required blots should be enough to support the shearing forces produced from the rotating masses, torsional vibrations and weight of accessories? Being an engineer myself, I'm throwing up the BS flag...

You are correct in saying that the pins are there for ease of alignment during assembly, but that's NOT the ONLY reason they are there. If there were JUST there for assembly, don't you think they would be hollow roll pins to save money and manufacturing time? The fact they are solid suggests to me that they provide added shear support. The fact that many engines can survive without them is proof to the 1.2 rule (factor of safety), but the closer you get to 1 the closer you are to barely having enough to survive NORMAL conditions. Now riddle me this...how many diesel trucks on the road see "normal" conditions? As in NO mods, NO hauling over the RATED GVW, NO show off behind the wheel...blah blah blah, you get where I'm going...

But, alas, my motto is "to each his own", so do what you know is best and what you are most comfortable with and if it works, so be it. There truly is more than one way to skin a cat. But, me personally, I like the pins right where they are...where they are supposed to be.

Great build by the way! :tu:

Yeah dude. The pins "locate" the timing case to the block. I am a machinist as well as a student and there have been several things that I had to make with dowel pins to "locate" parts because bolt holes (i don't care how you drill them) are too sloppy. I would be willing to bet your timing case will move because there is nothing other than those little bolts holding all the force from the injection pump. They are not on there just for assembly purposes, or ease of machining. Tolerances within .001 of an inch or even less are required to machine the holes for the dowel pins and it is a pain in the butt to get the pins in during assembly. I am not trying to knock you. It may work fine, but they definitely serve a purpose.

good job

well if it helps any the one guy at my work has been running kdp less for 100k ish miles, (sinse he replaced his IP at 250k) no problems yet.....but thats with a VE not a P7100
but at any rate i would still love to have your truck great work:tu::tu::tu::jump::rocking:

Either way Im not going to argue about the this, we all just go by what we are told. And we all do what works. This thread was started to help out other guys if they wanted or have been thinking of doin this swap but not to for sure whats involved. Not to have any ones machanicle ability questioned. I now every one here is just trying to help, and thats the way it should be. If there was a problem with taking it out completely i would have stoped doing it about 8 engines ago. But either way thanks for your post, and thanks to all for your coments. Keep em coming:rocking:

Make this a sticky!!