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well i agree with danny on the toqueing the head, and i hate hate hate buying a product that i dont know what it is. So if I were to ask them what type of bolts these were and what grade and got a idk answer i would have to take my business elsewhere or untill he found out what they were. i have done this even to good friends i have bought products from for years. Im not knocking the product but some more info would be awesome. personally i have always been leery about allen head bolts so i would need all the info before a purchase. but if they work i would love to add them to the truck
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I am not on anyones side here but this is just my $.02.
Tony has never stated these hold better or as good as ARP Studs. He uses these in his trucks and so does alot of guys up his way. So whats the big deal?? If something works it works. These are not sold to replace ARP Studs there sold to be a better solution than stock head bolts. |
thanks luke:tu:
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Good thread!
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Originally Posted by lukesdiesel
(Post 580263)
I am not on anyones side here but this is just my $.02.
Tony has never stated these hold better or as good as ARP Studs. He uses these in his trucks and so does alot of guys up his way. So whats the big deal?? If something works it works. These are not sold to replace ARP Studs there sold to be a better solution than stock head bolts. |
Originally Posted by 2500HeavyDuty
(Post 580232)
if your going to swap them out one at a time, who would just torque it to the first stage and then move on seriously i hope you would have more common sense than that and finish the torque procedure.
Even on the dmaxes after you torque all the head bolts down to 125 you go back and loosen them one at a time and torque them down to 125ftlbs three more times, so i guess i ruin the even clamping force when i do that, and guess what its an aluminum head OMG its gonna warp if i do that. Stock head bolts are strong and can be made to last a long time, one of the biggest problems is tuning and cylinder pressures lifting them up. My buddy stephen had a 12v that he ran a fatbastard turbo on it and pegged his 50psi gauge all the times, he had stock head bolts, no big deal :dmi: had it for a long time with that setup and had no problems. And yes stock bolts are strong, If done right. I run mine pegged on a 60psi gauge, with lots of timing (skipped tooth and pump to the head) and a .082 jet of nitrous. No leaks yet. But they were put in in teh proper pattern, |
If these are stronger than stock, why not pull them pass factory tq specs?
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this is the tq that has been tested time and time again over the years.:tu:
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Jeez, you guys are really going at it over those bolts.:scare2:
FYI.... The stock head bolts are less than 11mm and have an ultimate tensile strength of 150,000 psi A 12mm grade 12.9 bolt is 12mm and has an ultimate tensile strength of 175,000 psi and are at least 38% stronger than the stock head bolts. The standard ARP stud is 12mm and has an ultimate tensile strength of 190,000 psi and is at least 55% stronger than the stock head bolts. Heat will affect all of these bolts over time, even the studs will weaken over time. If these are stronger than stock, why not pull them pass factory tq specs? Now it's not quite as simple as I've seemed to indicate here, but the simple facts are... The stock head bolts are very good, the 12.9 bolts are better, and studs are even better than that. If you're at 550hp or less, you can save a few bucks and probably get by with the bolts. More power than that, twins or O-rings you might want to go ahead and use studs. |
Originally Posted by Drothgeb
(Post 580479)
Jeez, you guys are really going at it over those bolts.:scare2:
FYI.... The stock head bolts are less than 11mm and have an ultimate tensile strength of 150,000 psi A 12mm grade 12.9 bolt is 12mm and has an ultimate tensile strength of 175,000 psi and are at least 38% stronger than the stock head bolts. The standard ARP stud is 12mm and has an ultimate tensile strength of 190,000 psi and is at least 55% stronger than the stock head bolts. Heat will affect all of these bolts over time, even the studs will weaken over time. If you use a torque wrench to do the 90lbs + 90 degrees to the 12.9 bolts, you will find that it equals +/- 135lbs of torque instead of the 120 or so you get with the stock bolts. That is an indication of higher bolt strength and higher clamping force.:tu: Now it's not quite as simple as I've seemed to indicate here, but the simple facts are... The stock head bolts are very good, the 12.9 bolts are better, and studs are even better than that. If you're at 550hp or less, you can save a few bucks and probably get by with the bolts. More power than that, twins or O-rings you might want to go ahead and use studs. Thanks! Thats good to know. |
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