I can't remember if I did the procedure right or like everyone else. But knock on wood, they are holding just fine.:tu:

I, as well as everyone else I know still uses the torque pattern and sequence with aftermarket parts as they do with factory parts. Some times the torque value may change, if you think this sequence is not important, you have not replaced enough head gaskets, same goes with resetting the valve lash.

Sequence shouldn't make any difference as you do not have a slack head. A sequence is used to insure proper dispersion of force, and not warp or kink anything. Changing retainers one by one is fine as the force is barely changed.
I do not agree with not checking the lash again, but there wouldn't be much more than a couple thousands of an inch change anyway. I HAVE to do it when I remove them because my customer is paying for it to be done.
As said above, there is my opinion shared. Take it for what you will.

you cant go wrong that way:tu:

Always being a strong follower of: Do as the technical manual predicts-

I copied the expert tips of the Victor Reinz company, an OE Cummins seal supplier.

You will find three PDF's:

-the first about multilayer head gaskets

http://thumbs.picr.de/4604851.jpg

-the second about bolts

http://thumbs.picr.de/4604852.jpg

-the third about composite head gaskets and failure analysis

http://thumbs.picr.de/4604853.jpg

Believe in a world of technical laws is the first step to failure. Never assume- always check!

My Opinion Changing Head Bolts ...

When replacing a head gasket ALL the bolts are removed at once there for pressure is released from the entire gasket area. In this instance when replacing the head bolts you need to go by a specific pattern to ensure that the pressure is applied evenly across the head on to the gasket.

This thread is about replacing the stock head bolts with aftermarket bolts which are stronger. if you were to remove all the stock head bolts at once then you would have to put them back in , in a manner to where even pressure is applied. if you remove and replace 1 bolt at a time then the even pressure was not released from the head gasket there for making it completely irrelevant.

As for the Valve lash I Asked if they reset it after removing and replacing the rockers and i was told no, since this man has did this same thing probably 100 times i figure after checking the first 25 sets he did and them not needing readjusted he just quit checking them. Then i took a good look and as long as the lash adjustment nut and set screw wasn't changed then it shouldn't make a difference. Now if you want to be anal about it for cripes sake check the valve lash then you'll know. Check it before as well so you can report back the change , or maybe ill go pull one off on video and show lash before and after with no change? Obviously it don't matter because he didn't do it, rather than defaulting to "Lazy" or "Dumb Ass" or anything like that , lets take into consideration that this wasn't his first rodeo.

This is the very reason why the most educated people in diesel performance wont get on forums , there is always someone who thinks they know it all , these people do this to put food on the table and ill take the word of a hard working man thats done it everyday for years before i pull out a manual written by someone who has never had a hood open.

Truth of the matter, this is what I do for a living, and I would hate to see someone have a failure or problem stem from going down the same path I would not do myself.

What are the specs on these bolts? Grade 12.9 like most socket head cap screws are? Are they the same exact length as the factory bolts but harder? These sound like a good deal if you cant afford studs.

These come with custom milled washers , you cannot just buy harden bolts and put them in , even if you could you would find the price to be close to what these cost with the washers and all not to mention years of trial and error on sizes and strengths.

Alright. I figured i could try and get some information. Im not trying to be sneaky or steal business but i do have free access to socket head cap screws, CNC machined parts and sending things off to get hardened and hydrogen embrittlement testing. Having family in business is always nice.

Do you have any idea how many people are running this setup? I'm not in the ballpark for studs and i doubt i ever will be so this seems like a viable option if there are proven examples.

Thanks.

If you look on Mighty Diesel's Site it says that "4 of the washers will need additional modification" i dont know what that is about , Tony brought them in and they Put them in as they were and there wasnt any sort of additional modifications , direct bolt it.

You put a strip of grease down the threads and a strip under the head to hold the washer up ,

the reason you just put a strip down the threads is because if you put too much you may get pressure from the bottom of the hole and it will throw off your torque wrench

i went and had washers turned down for this. they are already fixed when you buy them now.:tu:

Nice !

Anyone pull these bolts pass factory tq specs?

I plan to get a set.

Wow - good idea, but I ain't gonna address the problems in this thread.

Saving my fire suit for the track!

So, how do these bolts hold more load compared to a stock head bolt? These bolts are still a stretch to yield bolt. Does anyone have any load test sheet analysis or anything? Just curious as this could be an option for customers, but I'm very leary about them. Will Tony stand behind labor claims if these bolts are installed on a big boost engine and the head gasket still blows? Again, I'm asking because these could be a great product. But it has me worried since these are still stretch to yield.

The specific attributes of different bolts can change there clamping force. I imagine they yield at a higher force, allowing for more clamping force on your head. Heck, it is possible to have a bolt so strong it will pull your thread out of your block, but who wants that

How do you figure they're "stretch to yield" w/o a reduced shank?

Hex key socket cap bolts in that size are typically 180Kpsi tensile strength, which is certainly adequate for OEM power levels.

The cost is cause for most concern - those bolts at that price point indicate that they're imported (not automatically a bad thing), but not something that's confidence-inspiring either.

Holo-Krome & Unbrako (both high-quality manufacturers) cost over 4X as much for the same pieces.

I guess the skeptics should just stay away from them I guess.

2 bolts, the same size, one an 8.8 and the other 12.9, one will have a hell of a lot higher yield. Size is only half the formula.

If it isn't a stretch to yield bolt, why would you torque it to 90ft. lbs. and then go 90*? That indicates a stretch to yield bolt. Other wise you would just have a final torque, not an angle of rotation.

---AutoMerged DoublePost---

Skeptics? I guess you don't care what you are actually buying. That's why you ask questions.

---AutoMerged DoublePost---

Skeptics? I guess you don't care what you are actually buying. That's why you ask questions.

Sure, OEM bolts are ft-lb + angle, but who determined the socket caps are correctly preloaded with the same method?

Size is definitely less than half the "formula" - lots more to consider in a critical clamping application like cylinder head fasteners.

Stretch to Yield , US or Import , Skeptics No Skeptics , Wanting info for you customers or just trying to kill the hype on these bolts for thos who dont have ARP $ , Head Torquing Procedure , Valve Lash ......

What ever your reasoning may be 1 thing stands , My head gasket isn't blowed i may only run 43 PSI WOT but they hold and it may be placebo effect but at WOT things just sound and feel more stable to me personally.

If anyone like me has ran a stock charger to 50 PSI you know that it dont sound like a turbo any more , it sounds more like a vacuum cleaner. when i went to a Super B it didnt sound like a vacuum cleaner anymore but it did sound like a crapton of air was flowing :D

Its an added since of security for me. I would recommend them and keep in mind ARP's Blow too

Don't ridicule me if you can't answer my questions. I asked a valid question that a customer asked me. Is there a problem with that? I'm not going to lie to him and say sure they'll hold fine! And then you get trust me they'll hold, I run my turbo to 43psi of boost. Ok, that's great, but each engine is different and seen different maintenance and treatment. What works on one may not work on another.

If I was after information on the bolts to sell them to my customers I would call tony and ask him about them. This is an Installation Thread.

MIGHTY DIESEL
1-877-354-7008

Then delete my posts in this thread.

There are several trucks local that are running these bolts producing stock boost to 50+ PSI. I have 2 yrs 50+ Psi several times. If/when I blow the gasket, these will be put in again.

Does ARP cover labor costs if you blow your HG using ARP Studs?


:pca1:

Chad the order does not have to do with the bolts. It has to do with torquing the head down proper so that it gets an even flat seal with even pressure across the entire head. Weston is right, you should have used the factory pattern for replacing them.

No after market head bolt company will do that... Hell even the factory wont do that if you install OEM replacement bolts. That's a mute argument.

we never took the bolts out

If you never took the bolts out haw did you replace them?

Weisz Erik

if you take one bolt and replace it one at a time you still have all the other head bolts holding down the head for you. since the head was torqued down properly from when it was first put together by the factory doing one bolt at a time wont hurt anything.

i have asked several times for information on these things and none has ever been offered what so ever. And im sorry if they wont hold on a fire ringed block i would never use them. Bolts with no heat cycle or tensile strength information are a ticking time bomb. its pretty bad that these things break on grader's alternator bracket....

Re: Mighty Diesel's Houdini Head Bolts Install Images
 

Make your own bolts

These are Houdini Bolts , you'll never know the details why flood the market?

Houdini bolts??? There is nothing special about grade 12.9 allen bolts from your local bolt supplier, That have no intention of having a heat cycle and arent designed to hold any kind of additional load.

He didnt give me any information cuz as he told me he didnt know any of that information.

You really think your torque specs are still spot on after that many miles? And by releasing all the load on one bolt at a time you still effect the way the head mates to the block, the head still lifts in that one spot and does not mate back the way it should for maximum holding power. Will it work, yes... will it automaticlly break, probably not... Can it be done better and stronger. Yep. Alos how to you torque in stages like you supposed to doing only one bolt at a time? There is a reason that a procedure like this is in place and used by everyone. There are many high HP, High Boost trucks running stock head bolts holding just fine... Because they put the head on right.

:humm:

1. grade 12.9 allen bolts
2. no intention of having a heat cycle
3. arent designed to hold any kind of additional load.

If you know all there is to know about the Houdini Head Bolts then why exactly are you posting on this thread saying you didn't get any information.

Because on further research after not getting any information from Tony, and Des Moines Bolt was kind enough to get me more information along with Fastenal.

Have a good day ya'll

if your going to swap them out one at a time, who would just torque it to the first stage and then move on seriously i hope you would have more common sense than that and finish the torque procedure.

Even on the dmaxes after you torque all the head bolts down to 125 you go back and loosen them one at a time and torque them down to 125ftlbs three more times, so i guess i ruin the even clamping force when i do that, and guess what its an aluminum head OMG its gonna warp if i do that.

Stock head bolts are strong and can be made to last a long time, one of the biggest problems is tuning and cylinder pressures lifting them up. My buddy stephen had a 12v that he ran a fatbastard turbo on it and pegged his 50psi gauge all the times, he had stock head bolts, no big deal :dmi: had it for a long time with that setup and had no problems.