Fuel Plate Or No Fuel Plate?
 

Ive heard that a 0 plate FF is the same as no plate at all, is this correct? Ive also heard something like its really bad to run no plate when others say its fine. Ive also heard that its ok in all the pumps besides the 215.

Im just looking for some input from the pros here before I go out and ruin my pump.

Leave the plate in....running without it is asking for trouble.

What goes wrong? Im just curious and am trying to figure out how these things truly tick.

i'm going to agree to disagree.... i have ran plateless for over a year when i had my stock junk..... after adding injectors and delivery valves it just flowed too much fuel to burn..... so i put my 100 back in to control smoke on the bottom end. i have done dyno testing with 100 vs no plate and there was a lil difference. no plate made more power but that's in my truck and may not be on any other truck..... i want to do some more testing w/ my truck before removing the 100 again.... hopefully after the first of the year i can get back on the dyno.....

what can possibly go wrong from running plateless?

there is a posiability of the rack sticking and causing a runaway motor.... or so i've heard

Good enough reason for me.

but will it make anything fail in the pump? how is a 0 plate the same as no plate?

it's not.

If the rack sticks, something failing in your pump will be the least of your worries.

Sticking WOT is not a big thing for me wouldnt be the first time. What makes the rack stick though. Is that all that can happen?

I've run plateless, put it back in when I got the big sticks. Personally I liked it witout the plate. There's prolly 10 people around here that have ran over 200,000 combined miles with zero problems. One has 75,000 on his alone without a plate.

true 99.9 percent of Darren Morrison's customers have no plate.... it kind of gets me though that there is all this hear say and people always say it's bad but i have yet to see (either i person or on the internet) any evidence that running plateless will mess up a pump. they say it'll break a pin in there but noone can seem to say or show pictures of said pin.... i dono. i ran without it and that's my experience. and i haven' had to replace my pump yet.....

I dont have any evidence so Im out of this one.

Go up your life insurance, take your plate out and get some evidence.

All I've ever heard on this is hearsay too. I've seen tons of posts saying not to do it because of either this magical little pin inside the pump somewhere that could break or the whole excessive rack travel idea. I have yet to see one photo showing evidence of either of these happening.

My thoughts are that the only reason the plate is there for a tuning tool. You can get by with no plate and be fine because of the plug in the front of pump. But you can grind plates in any configuration you need to get your truck set up the way you want it.

As I said, my $.02.

But why not just go with a 0 plate?? - Im sure it would provide as much fuel as any of us need.

Well, and again this is strictly how I see it, I would suppose depending on your mods, usage, etc that for many a 0 plate would be fine. I guess I view plates as a primitive form of EFI live. No where near as exact or capable hence the term primitive.

Say you have a guy that's tuning for towing. He notices that at the start of his run he has lower EGT's and not even a haze from the exhaust which could indicate less fuel is available but at higher RPM's his temps start to go through the roof and the smoke is out of control. I theorize that with enough time, effort and patience he could grind away the plate just enough in the lower RPM's to give him the extra fuel and at the same time add metal to plate at the top end to clean up his smoke and temps. This gives you an infinite number of possibilities to match your plate to your modifications and driving style providing you have the patience to go through with it. That's the beauty of metal, with the right tools and techniques you can do anything with it. In a way this is what our very own Mr. Foogle did with his bosses truck some time ago which to a small extent makes me think I'm on the right track but again, this is just my personal theory.

Is this type of effort probable for the majority of us? Most likely not. I don't think I have the time or patience to go through so a 100 plate is good enough for me.

Well Im now currently running plateless and wow what a difference. I went from the stock plate FF to nothing so I really felt the difference.

I stole this image from Jim over at NewEnglandTurboDieselPower.com:

Attachment 59526

If you notice, the only pin I could see possibly breaking from excessive rack travel is the one between the AFC Foot and the rod the star wheel is on (the coarse adjustment for the spring preload) Or maybe something in that mess called the Governor arm (#'s 3 and 5)

Still, I'd rather run a 0 plate full forward than no plate. Just for the piece of mind that your governor arm isn't going to go through the front of your injection pump lol :poak:

Im still going to grind the stock plate a 100 eventually, do you have to adjust the gov arm for a different fuel plate?

You might. Just take a good look at it when you do the plate. Make sure its adjusted up nice.

From a 0 full foward, to no plate, you'll see no affect in RWHP what so ever, Not to mention it makes it harder to get good numbers on the rollers!

red was my highest run with the 100 plate FF, it was my second pull. 3rd pull i tried to lug it down too much and ended up with worse numbers. i waited 15 min and took the 100 out and the first pull (4th total) with no plate yeilded these numbers (in blue). all these numbers were made with Stock DV's, Stock Injectors, Stock turbo and 12cm housing, Stock Exhaust Manifold, Stock Intake Horn and Intercooler, Stock Lift Pump, Stock Timing, Stock Fan, Goerend Tranny w/ alot of rotational mass (billet flexplate, converter, dual wheels) Starwheel all the way loose. not too bad for a completely stock motor, wasn't too hard to get good numbers. that sure beats 180/410 at the crank my truck came with....

Attachment 59518
Attachment 59519

I also have heard rumors of some sort of pin breaking due to no fuel plate. I have been running my pick for almost six months now with no plate and have had no problems. unless a little black smoke bothers you. then maybe just adjust your star wheel. thats where i would start. does anyone think maybe somebody has this "pin that will break" confused with the "killer dowel pin"? :humm:I think maybe somebody removed there plate then this pin just broke, which would have nothing to do with the plate because its in the engine timing box. but maybe the person just linked the two and the rumors got started. just a thought. :U:

I keep mine in for piece of mind.
Left my silencer ring in too :citd:

If you put your 0 plate FF and the gov arm goes to full rack and never hits the plate there is no difference in running plateless

Correct you are. Anyone put a mack rack plug on your truck and see the mars were your rack is hitting the stock plug? If your hitting the plug your already bypassing the plate. I’ve heard the pros and cons of no plate for a long time. MY .02 is run a 100 at ff (or wherever your mods will let you) on the street. Its easier on the trans and make less smoke down low. On the track pull the plate out its the same as a 0 but you don’t have to adjust the gov arm.

If you have the stock rack plug at a certin point it doesnt matter what you do to your plate because the plug is limiting your rack travel!

My only worry with to much rack travel is the rack sticking. But the chances aren’t very good unless you turn the barrels for max rack travel. It can happen and thats why later this year I plan to have air shut off.

I run a 100 at FF all the time. I have more fuel than my stock charger can even think about keeping up with.

If you tune the afc right you really don't need a plate on the street

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and if the rack does get stuck what difference will the plate make? It will just stop the rack from moveing more foward. If the rack sticks your only hope is to kill the air or shut the fuel before the pump ... but I don't think thats very good for the pump.

your only real chance is air.... Kinda scarry if you think about it lol

i know my truck plateless it stales kinda when you really hammer on it and once it spooles you head is aginest the head rest and you are holding on tight. it is fun to do when your buddys are big into imports and you give them a head ac banging thier head of the back window :ouch:

Smart man right there :5:

A couple down falls to running plateless are higher EGT's, also you might notice more turbo lag off the get go. especially if you take out your afc arm. then your EGT's will be pretty hot also. but when the turbo kicks in hold onto your briches:U:

a friend of mine has been running plateless for 3 years with a 215 pump and has no troubles what so ever. i took my plate out a while ago but put it back in to get better mileage back and forth to school. to bad my pickups in pieces now:ouch:

There is no danger in running plateless. Take the plate out and tune the AFC to control rack travel.

all you platless folks send me yer plate ........................the 100's are goin like hotcakes

PM me for details

:c:

Teddybear is correct.

Plateless will not hurt a thing. If your running a 0 at FF your already pretty much running plateless.

No issue running plateless.

Running No Plate - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum

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I wasnt gonna post this but there ya go lol

???

take your plate out grind it to a 0 and sell it to some dumb highschool kid for 50 bucks tell him itll smoke alot and he will be in heaven