New Clutch Time
 

alright im in the market for a new clutch now because mine is slipping and i want to get injectors and dv's so i need a new clutch before i get them, so i am going to get a valair just because i dont want to spend $1500 on a southbend, i know there where its at for clutches but i aint heard nothing bad about valairs. i need to know what the difference between the economy 13" and the premium 13", also i am undecided between the organic feramic, full feramic, or ceramic, can you guys give me the pros and cons of each, thanks guys heres there site for reference

http://www.valairinc.com/performance/12nv4500.html

I like the prices as well and I'll be watching this thread closely as well because I'm sure I'll be needing a clutch here before too long. I keep walking through my Southbend Con O

Ceramic will hold, but is not very user friendly. It will buck considerably when feathering, like backing a trailer. Feramic is better, but will still buck a little. Not bad.

As for the difference, looks like it is in the flywheel. The premium kit uses a new 6 speed flywheel, and the economy is a 5 speed flywheel.




$1500 for an SBC?????

well would the redrilled 5spd flywheel still be just as good? and what do you suggest for the clutch?

Well, the 6 speed is a 13' clutch, so the flywheel is a perfect match. I am sure redrilling is a safe alternative, or they wouldnot offer it. I think the economy unit would be fine for you.

I wish I would have just went with a DD when I did mine but I got a very good deal on a South Bend Con FE. Let us know how it works for you.

Andy

The big difference between the two flywheels is the 5 speed flywheel is just case hardened (surface hardened) and the 6 speed flywheel is forged (full hardened), so the 5 speed flywheel is only good for 1-2 resurfaces before it need to be replaced, compared to the 6 speed flywheel can be turned as many times as needed as long as it has enough material left.

As for which facing to get depends on what you do with the truck and how much HP you want it to hold.

....Josh

With what you have done to your truck i would say a full Feramic HD 12.25 would best fit you. As far as the backin up issues stated before with the full ceramic,, you can put the truck in 4 lo and it negates that problem. The Heavy duty 12.25 actually holds better IMO.

The organic feramic is nice for a mildly modded truck that tows alot, the full feramic is an in between levels of modding clutch(can still tow moderately when paying close attention), where as the full ceramic is considered an all out single plate. My boss just towed between 8000 and 16000 pounds with the full feramic, for 1600 miles with a not broken in clutch. It is still holding great and is really smooth. Feel free to ask any questions and we will answer them to our best abilities.

Nick

well i got new era 370s coming, 35/40 hybrid, coming and in the very near future some custom cut dvs if that changes the clutch situation at all

well like I said above it depends on what your using the truck for.

If you ever haul livestock I wouldn't go more aggresive than the organic/feramic.

If not I would get either the full feramic or full ceramic either one is going to be a little grabby on engagement, but once you learn to drive on them and they get broken in they are suprisingly smooth. The feramic will be a little easier on your flywheel and a tiny bit less grabby.

As for which 13" inch or 12.25"... I would get the 12.25 with a 3800lb preasure plate and get the HD sping hub upgrade if you get the OFE or the FE.




So basically:
tow livestock= NMU70119-02-HD w/3800lb plate
no livestock, easier on flywheel= NMU70119-03-HD w/3800lb plate
no livestock, all out holding= NMU70119-02 w/3800lb plate

Also you can call Valair and talk to Dan or Kevin and tell them exactly what your looking for and they will recommend one.

Hope this helps....Josh

Why settle for second best when it comes to something your going to use to apply power?.Would you run a second rate oil filter just because they were cheap or would you want to ensure that your truck was well taken care of?.There have been alot of threads about them by owners having issues with their products,thats going to happen.HOWEVER,the one thread that killed any thoughts in my eyes of using Valair was their personal attack of SBC on another board.That attack used no facts and they lost many customers there due to it.Peter's reputation and customer service is second to no one and their products stand for themselves.

Its your dollar and your truck,I'd say do more research and then make your decision.Sometimes cheaper is not always the better value......Andy

Let me be the first to say that I know absolutlely nothin good or bad about Valair Clutches so this isn't anything to do with them personally.

The clutch is what put's the power to the ground so without that you have no truck. It's also a huge pain in the backside if anything goes wrong with it, cause there is no easy fix on a clutch. It all means pullin it out of the truck. With that being said I'm sure their are some clutches on the market that are just as good if not better then South Bend but until they prove themselves with a good many trucks on the road, I'll pay the extra money for years of proven customer service and quality control for the product for this particular piece especially.

I'll admit SBC makes an awesome product, and has first rate customer service...

Unfortunetly not everyone can afford a $1000 clutch, myself included when I needed one. Valair has provided clutches to myself and a few friends of mine, and the products and customer service has either met or gone beyond exspectations.

I currently have a 400hp 12.25" clutch in my truck that is holding over 900ftlb of torque, and as long as it lasts a resonable amount of time I will be calling them when I wear this one out. Or if I get to the point that this one won't hold I will probably get one of their dual disc's soon to be released.

....Josh

This is what I was trying to point out Bubba...
Valair may have some products that will handle the job as may many others.Until they are proven to hold or withstand the abuse that comes with our trucks then I myself would not gamble.I did that years ago with Centerforce and all I ended up with was broken parts and a very poor attitude towrds those who use us as their R&D lab.SBC's units are proven and have shown their ruggedness more than any other brand out there.

And so those here do not confuse me with a SBC owner,I am not.I have an original Mitchell Double that has seen 90k of street abuse and still is hanging on without ever being down.When I did my clutch years ago Peter was just starting to make double discs and when I needed one he didn't have the input shaft,EEP did and they got the work.After seeing what Sled Puller put his Mitchell double through the first 3 years of pulling and street driving I knew mine would give me the best shot of handling the power and lasting,it was a decision that has earned its keep for me time and time again.

I will be installing a new unit very soon and have my Mitchell freshened and sell it so someone else can get their moneys worth out of it too........Andy.

I would be very interested as the owner of valair to know what post you would be reffering to, We have never bashed any of our competitors and it is standard policy.
and as far as loosing business, our business is better than ever.

Hey Valair:

My little organic is holding up well, dyno'd last month over 900ftlbs, but I have a feeling I'm going to out grow this one alot sooner than expected LOL..... How are those dual disks looking???

....josh

The dual discs will be available in the next two weeks.

What makes Valair the "second best" in your own words you said "That attack used no facts" where are your facts? Just because one person has been around longer dosent make them the best, everyone has to start at somewhere and just because something cost less dosent make it "cheap" or even inferior to anything else on the market. Im currently running a valair clutch, im not gonna lie at first I was a little worried but after talking to them all worries were gone so far the people I have talked to from valair are very nice and VERY helpfull. I love my clutch will recomend it to anyone I talk to and if the time ever comes that I need a new one im going back to valair.

Well said, my next clutch will also be a ValAir!

well im pretty sure im going to get a valair, yes southbends are great clutches but why pay twice as much for a clutch that is the same quality, there both good clutches it just comes down to the money, i save $500 then thats $500 more that can go into something else

I for one an very open armed towards compatition......

compatition forces all the products to get better and also to have respectable prices for said product

I love the fact that Valair clutch is now a marketable and dependable clutch and I for one would fully support them as I do with all of our fine site sponsers

I look forward to seeing sponsership of the site from Valairclutch

Good news

I guess I am old school.. I have been following the diesel boards since, well, before there was the TDR online, and I can say that SBC and Peter have outperformed anyone who competed with them. Competition is good, but as SBC goes, the product and service speak for themselves, even if other want to throw dirt at them. Being the puffiest chest doesn't gain customers and there are many many performance vendors that have fallen using that tactic.

This is IMHO, so flame away..

1st of all we do not bash anyone, ever. we a just regular people well maybe rednecks trying to make a living. I personally have been manufacturing Heavy Duty Clutches for 31 plus years.and i still don't know it all.


2 nd of all i can't pm anyone cause i dont have enough posts, can someone send me information on being a site sponser

no one is trying to flame anyone, we all have different opinions. By your statements though it makes me think you are saying valair is bashing sbc, I for one would like to know where or when you saw/heard them do that. I have talked to them here and on the phone and never heard them say anything bad about any other vendor out there. In another post Hammer said that valair was bashing sbc on another forum, when he was asked what post this happend on I never saw a reply but they could be talking in PM's who knows. All I know is what I have experienced with Valair and because Im a actual customer with valair I think my words go a little father than someone who has never even spoke with them. Buy who ever you want no one here is saying peter is a bad guy but at the same time just because valair is the new guy dosent mean his service/product isnt as good as the old guys.

One more thing on the bashing subject I thought I would include....

I have talked with Dan (owner of valair) on the phone several times and of all the times I talked to him he had nothing bad to say about SBC, in fact what he said about them was that they offered a very good product, and that Peter was a very good guy.

He then went on to say that valair clutches would likely be as exspensive as SBC's if it wasn't for the fact that valair can get their materials alot cheaper because he buys so much due to them being a Heavy Truck clutch builder, and that he felt the need for a more affordable option in the high performance diesel market. So he decided a few years ago to use his 30+ years expierence and buying power in the heavy truck market to start making performance clutches for us, and simply passes the savings on....

Just figured I would pass that on for those that might be interested....Josh

i am not nick i am the owner of valair. no one but me will be logged in as Valair1

Well, there you have it. He is using his buying power to get product cheaper then us with his 30 years in business. We have been in the clutch business since 1942 with 4 generations. We build and sell clutches for all makes, semi, agricultural, passenger car, trucks, industrial machines. We now have over 20 people building clutches with many double shifts. Our monthly accounts payable is roughly $500,000 to $600,000. We helped finance and introduce Kevlar friction material to the market 35 years ago. We introduced the agricultural feramic to the pickup and passenger car market 8 years ago. We implemented the semi HD disc to the pickup market in 1999 for the Ford 7.3. Before us there was no 13" spicer style disc with a 1 3/8" spline. We designed the 13" upgrade clutch for the 5sp dodge trucks. We designed the solid flywheel conversion for the Duramax trucks Ford 6.0 trucks and the Dodges with the G56 transmission. We spent $150,000 To have the 3400 lb 13" covers made for us. We designed the adjustable HD hydraulics. We designed the 1st spring loaded dual disc clutch to ever be put into a diesel pickup. The Feramic friction material we use in the 13" full ring is soley ours and only sold to us. Detroit is working with us on redesigning their dual disc clutch for the late model Mustangs. Our products are in know way shape or form the same as any other companies. The cost of a clutch is not only in what it takes to build it, it is also the development of the product. Nothing on said companies web page was designed by said company. We had a clutch available for the Dodge G56 2005-2007 before the trucks were on the market because we knew there was going to be premature failure with the dual mass flywheel. Working with dodge and the development cost big $$'s. We, South Bend Clutch will not and do not sit back and wait to see what another company develops and copy it. My rant is done...Sorry.

Peter
South Bend Clutch

Well what everbody says on here basically just renforces the old saying you can't believe everything you here or read for that matter....

The main point I was trying to get across was that Dan had nothing but good to say about you peter

....josh

I did not use the term bash, however I have been directed to less than above board comments and honestly, I have been a follower of Peters for a long time. I am biased towards SBC so I will not argue the point any further.

I am not going to go through all the posts and link them here just to prove a point. Why bother? Then its weather vane of blame of who said what and where, out of context yada yada. I will visit this post in about 2 years and see whose still kickin around.

the way i feel on the issue, there both good products, i have heard nothing but good about either one, my money is going to go to valair because i dont have twice that amount of money right now to dish out on a south bend, people have had good luck with both, alot of people are just afraid to try the new guys clutch because the industry standard for a long time has been south bend, that dont mean that either one product is superior to each other, other people may beleive that, it may be true, it may not, but what it comes down to is valair is an extremely affordable alternative to south bend, this thread here i started because i wanted a clutch recommendation, it has turned into a clutch war, so i think all you guys should just accept that valair is making a step into the high performance diesel clutch market, and now south bend has some competiton in the clutch market

Just get an auto...:w2::poak::pca1:

I never said you used the word bash. No one here has said anything bad about southbend and I dont understand why its turning into a argument. One person (not you) said that he saw them bash sbc on another thread he was asked to show where and that was it. So far all I have read is people stating their opinions. Nobody asked you to show posts as to where valair was putting down sbc, I think you read my post in the wrong way. As far as im concerned this post is done the originator has made his decision.

Exactly!!!!!


DBogo: feel free to contact me further if you think I can answer any more questions, I'm always willing to help.....Josh

Fair enough guys. Sorry to Dbogo for taking it off the path.. :ouch:

I have a valair clutch pressure plate ( kit 13" ) in my 2002 3500 6 speed ho engine, 300HP injectors and a edge comp. Valiar is top quality, just a company with less overhead than some places. I have the 500HP x 1100 ftp set, it is smooth on start, and locks in solid.

Remember that clutch , pressure plate manufacturer buy the parts and assy them.

It takes tooling and a press to stamp the clutch cover, that will cost several million to setup.

:ph:

I have a idea..

I am running a SBC in my F250 and love it .. I have never tried a Valair clutch or know anything about them

I have a towing company we run ford diesels we are hard on our trucks, so with that being said SBC and Valair each send me a clutch ill install one in each of my wreckers and we will see what clutch lasts longest and works best.. now before you say well the drivers habits will effect the clutch each truck will be used by myself only.. this may take a year or two to finalize the testing though ..lol



j/k but seriously I do love my SBC and I will stick with what is proven by experience and what I know works great.. I like to use things myself and if they work I will continue to use them ...I don't like to take a chance on what I have no experience with, that's why I drive Fords they have been tried and tested and proven to be great work horses.. Been running them for 14 years in the towing industry

NOT saying it will happen but if you save $400 or $500 on a clutch (by any maker) and you have to drop the tranny out cause it failed prematurely is it still worth it ??? my time and my companies down time is worth more then a $400-$500 savings


Guess all I'm saying is the extra $$ is well worth it to have peace of mind KNOWING I have a quality part.. not just in the clutch market either.. in every product I buy

what ever clutch you decide on let me know because i need to get one to handle 600HP and 1200FT-LBs

Either a Valair ceramic 12.25" w/3800lb plate (NMU70119-04) or one of thier 13" ceramic should hold, but your going to be at the limits of the clutch. In my opinion you need to go straight to a dual disc, something in the 700-750hp rating area

Call Valair http://www.valairinc.com/performance/index.html and ask about thier dual disk, then check into some of these
http://www.powerpartsengineering.com/
http://www.kennysmachine.com/
http://www.scheiddiesel.com/index.htm
http://www.haisleymachine.com/
http://www.enterpriseengine.com/